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Just a thought, could a Celtic type league work? 2 teams from Scotland, Ireland, Wales even attempt to merge with the French league. 

Or 3 teams from the 3 nation's 9 team league

Negotiate access to the Challenge Cup, Negotiate access to the French Cup so it offers an interesting side note, mid season break offering a development internationals between the nation's, even attempt to bring in a stronger nation just to spice things up

Of course funding for such a league would be a major issue and funding travel for teams always poses headache's especially if overseas travel is required.

 

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Funnily enough I've often thought this too. I do think countries having control of their own destiny is the way to go. At the top level I don't particularly think a one league fits all approach covering all of Europe is the way to go, we see the problems that causes with Toronto and trying to get another French RL team and there are only so many pieces of that pie. With lower down semi professional leagues there are then a myriad of other issues.

More leagues at a higher level expands the pie and what is available to sell to benefit the game too, whether that is to broadcasters, sponsors, potential players or fans.. The trouble is the money and the teams are in England and without the big bang of suddenly having 12 teams at the same time it makes such a league difficult. Entering the English pyramid is the easy solution and sometimes the only solution for anyone bar the French.

There are a lot of positives to a Celtic league though and I would love to see it happen. Even at a League 1/French elite level it would be great. Travel links between Ireland, Scotland and Wales aren't too bad and if you could have 4 teams from each country it shortens the amount of long journeys needed. Teams would also be starting out at a similar level too. Its just the finance that is the issue because even at a low, league 1 type level it would need to be self funding. Internationals could effortlessly be built in. I think it is certainly doable but would require a number of like minded individuals to get it going and a lot of time and effort to make it work.

Edited by Damien
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12 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Impossible I am afraid UNLESS someone writes a huge cheque.

The Guinness Pro 12 does OK but since SKY dumped it sponsorship has dropped dramatically at the clubs.

Money the respective organisations don't have, if they used a model similar to SRU Super 6,

 

The SRU give each of the 6 clubs £62,500 for player wages in which each club has to match this. Then the SRU give the clubs a further £75,000 for the head coach and support staff totaling £137,500 from the governing body, if the 3 nation's can find £275,000 that part funds 2 teams from each nation, leaves clubs to find £62,500pa. Possible with the right drive. 

And I'm positive from a Scotland view, quiet a few Union players would come across

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23 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Impossible I am afraid UNLESS someone writes a huge cheque.

The Guinness Pro 12 does OK but since SKY dumped it sponsorship has dropped dramatically at the clubs.

Where did you see that sponsorship has dropped? It certainly hasnt for the irish clubs anyway. SKY are regaining the rights next year by the way.

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19 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Where did you see that sponsorship has dropped? It certainly hasnt for the irish clubs anyway. SKY are regaining the rights next year by the way.

Interesting, I haven't seen that. The move to Premier Sports was pretty disastrous and in particular the loss of coverage on the terrestrial platforms in each country. I wonder if any move includes this terrestrial coverage again.

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17 minutes ago, Damien said:

Interesting, I haven't seen that. The move to Premier Sports was pretty disastrous and in particular the loss of coverage on the terrestrial platforms in each country. I wonder if any move includes this terrestrial coverage again.

According to Stephen Thomas it includes free to air coverage. He also said it's a "significant increase" from the last deal. Which is positive as the Eir and Premier deal was our biggest tv deal to date.

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15 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

According to Stephen Thomas it includes free to air coverage. He also said it's a "significant increase" from the last deal. Which is positive as the Eir and Premier deal was our biggest tv deal to date.

I know that Premier Sports were struggling to make it pay, things like only 10k subscribers in Wales when they needed 30k and they had taken production in house to save money, and were looking to pay less. Any increase would be quite amazing if so, particularly when Sky are cutting back everywhere else. All a bit cross code though so will leave that there.

Back on the topic and I think it is a good model for RL, albeit at a much lower scale. The English pyramid doesn't really work, and teams from Wales, Scotland and Ireland just aren't feasible nor desirable for English semi-professional teams. Even RU and GAA cant fund professional national competitions and even at amateur level things are largely run at a provincial level. If sports like RU know they have to merge what they have at the top level because they cant go it alone, because the support or population isn't there for professional national competitions, then RL certainly needs to. Differing scales of course but much the same need.

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2 hours ago, Keith989 said:

Where did you see that sponsorship has dropped? It certainly hasnt for the irish clubs anyway. SKY are regaining the rights next year by the way.

I would agree with that, though welsh clubs struggle Italy is kept going by the likes of Benerton (Treviso actually my favourite place to visit to watch Union rugby is c--p but the hospitality is brilliant) Scotland I guess Glasgow goes reasonable OK Edinburgh struggles.

Not surprised if SKY are taking it back as Premier Sports is a disaster to attract sponsors little alone viewers + SKY club rugby union coverage is now without the championship basically zero:)

If SKY are taking it back then the good news for me is that 2 Italian trips are back on the cards:) 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, 2blackrooks said:

Just a thought, could a Celtic type league work? 2 teams from Scotland, Ireland, Wales even attempt to merge with the French league. 

Or 3 teams from the 3 nation's 9 team league

Negotiate access to the Challenge Cup, Negotiate access to the French Cup so it offers an interesting side note, mid season break offering a development internationals between the nation's, even attempt to bring in a stronger nation just to spice things up

Of course funding for such a league would be a major issue and funding travel for teams always poses headache's especially if overseas travel is required.

 

Your last paragraph summed it up. 

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3 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Impossible I am afraid UNLESS someone writes a huge cheque.

The Guinness Pro 12 does OK but since SKY dumped it sponsorship has dropped dramatically at the clubs.

I believe the Pro 14 (previously Pro 12) is essentially bankrolled by the Welsh, Irish, Scottish and Italian National sides, who get their income to bankroll the club sides from the very profitable Six Nations.

If our International game could start to generate significant amounts of money, that money could then be used to run a full time professional side in any or all of Ireland, Wales and Scotland. But if we do get into that position surely them playing in an expanded Super League would make more sense and have more chance of success than playing in their own new league.

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58 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why would Welsh teams want to increase journeys and make travelling more difficult, when they can play in leagues with English teams. 

Because it could allow growth in the Welsh game and could quite easily allow for 4 or more mid season internationals. Even a simple 3 team home and away competition with Ireland and Scotland would provide that. 

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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I believe the Pro 14 (previously Pro 12) is essentially bankrolled by the Welsh, Irish, Scottish and Italian National sides, who get their income to bankroll the club sides from the very profitable Six Nations.

If our International game could start to generate significant amounts of money, that money could then be used to run a full time professional side in any or all of Ireland, Wales and Scotland. But if we do get into that position surely them playing in an expanded Super League would make more sense and have more chance of success than playing in their own new league.

Exactly this. This is why the international game is so crucial. 

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5 hours ago, Damien said:

I know that Premier Sports were struggling to make it pay, things like only 10k subscribers in Wales when they needed 30k and they had taken production in house to save money, and were looking to pay less. Any increase would be quite amazing if so, particularly when Sky are cutting back everywhere else. All a bit cross code though so will leave that there.

Back on the topic and I think it is a good model for RL, albeit at a much lower scale. The English pyramid doesn't really work, and teams from Wales, Scotland and Ireland just aren't feasible nor desirable for English semi-professional teams. Even RU and GAA cant fund professional national competitions and even at amateur level things are largely run at a provincial level. If sports like RU know they have to merge what they have at the top level because they cant go it alone, because the support or population isn't there for professional national competitions, then RL certainly needs to. Differing scales of course but much the same need.

Yeah I was shocked when I read it was increasing, I suppose having super rugby teams to show now is attractive to sky. 

I'm terms of a Celtic RL, I would dread to have to listen to Welsh fans complain how everything in the league isn't geared towards them. Some of the things they give out about for the pro 14 is laughable. 

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Because it could allow growth in the Welsh game and could quite easily allow for 4 or more mid season internationals. Even a simple 3 team home and away competition with Ireland and Scotland would provide that. 

Why would playing Scottish and Irish clubs instead of English clubs allow growth in the Welsh game? 

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52 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why would playing Scottish and Irish clubs instead of English clubs allow growth in the Welsh game? 

Being in the English system for over 100 years hasn't worked too well for Wales so far has it?

They would be equal partners and could make decisions on what was best for them. As I said more internationals would greatly benefit the game and it would allow a recalibration between a club focused game to one that allows a place for internationals. A whole game approach can be taken to drive the game forward, rather than development centred around a couple of clubs at the whim of decisions taken by the RFL and the English clubs.

It would also allow the playing of similar sides who all have the same development aims. I'm not sure how the English game would even take to 4 Welsh sides. 4 Welsh sides could definitely be part of something bigger collectively than as part of the English system. Yes such a competition may never challenge Super League but a decent semi-professional level would be better than now and international competition allows a different kind of growth and revenue.

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Being in the English system for over 100 years hasn't worked too well for Wales so far has it?

There have certainly been success stories. Wales successfully converted plenty of top rugby union players and had a very strong International side, although they are not as strong now, that route could be re-established with salary cap exemptions for such players. Wales have won the Student Four Nations 3 times. Wales under 16’s have beaten England under 16’s. We have 2 semi professional Welsh sides and several amateur sides (how many are there?). In the short period of time a professional academy was run in Wales it produced several Super League players. I wouldn’t say everything has been a failure. 

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Just now, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

There have certainly been success stories. Wales successfully converted plenty of top rugby union players and had a very strong International side, although they are not as strong now, that route could be re-established with salary cap exemptions for such players. Wales have won the Student Four Nations 3 times. Wales under 16’s have beaten England under 16’s. We have 2 semi professional Welsh sides. In the short period of time a professional academy was run in Wales it produced several Super League players. I wouldn’t say everything has been a failure. 

Thats quite different to the discussion which you have just quoted. I'm not sure if much of that, or any of it, has to be to do with Welsh semi-professional teams being in the English system. In fact much of that was done pretty much the same at times with or without any Welsh sides. It was also done to benefit the English game, not the Welsh one.

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7 hours ago, Damien said:

Because it could allow growth in the Welsh game and could quite easily allow for 4 or more mid season internationals. Even a simple 3 team home and away competition with Ireland and Scotland would provide that. 

Why don't they just do the international competition and skip the combination league?

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On 20/03/2021 at 10:42, 2blackrooks said:

Just a thought, could a Celtic type league work? 2 teams from Scotland, Ireland, Wales even attempt to merge with the French league. 

Or 3 teams from the 3 nation's 9 team league.

 

There's a lot of potential travel problems in there.  Even in non-Covid times.

For part time players, it's a non-starter.   You'd be asking players - and staff - to take days off work for pretty much every away game.  It'd become a barrier to recruitment.

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17 hours ago, zylya said:

Why don't they just do the international competition and skip the combination league?

Not a bad idea. A three-team Celtic Nations Cup would give each country a fixed two senior fixtures a year. That's got to be better than the nothing they have right now.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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39 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Not a bad idea. A three-team Celtic Nations Cup would give each country a fixed two senior fixtures a year. That's got to be better than the nothing they have right now.

They have the European Cup/Nations League and World Cup qualifiers now tbf.

What they need to kick on at that level is high profile internationals with Media interest, currently the only way that is happening (bar a French one off) is with England.

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