NRL to trial forward pass recognition technology

[Copa]

Interesting 

https://www.nrl.com/news/2021/03/29/forward-pass-technology-trial-not-far-off-as-annesley-concedes-try-error/?utm_source=NRLFBContent&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=NetworkContent&fbclid=IwAR3zWwS921Q8D1Hll6kS085QicPCkZ9YKK4rhGCyQmy78-i5eEmERMXhtbc

 

[bobbruce]

Be interesting to see what they come up with here. If it is good I’d imagine it would be too expensive for SL. Still have no idea how they will measure the effect of wind on the ball. 

[OriginalMrC]

I must admit I thought this was an April fools joke. I just don't see how they can do it as players are moving forward when they release the ball. Also how do you take into consideration environmental factors and other things which may affect the flight of the ball. 

[fighting irish]

13 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I must admit I thought this was an April fools joke. I just don't see how they can do it as players are moving forward when they release the ball. Also how do you take into consideration environmental factors and other things which may affect the flight of the ball. 

You need to measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opponents goal line) at the instant the two part company.

If the balls velocity (towards the goal line) is less than the players, at that moment, its a legal pass.

[OriginalMrC]

2 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

You need to measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opponents goal line) at the instant the two part company.

If the balls velocity (towards the goal line) is less than the players, at that moment, its a legal pass.

Ah that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Personally I'd like to see it put in place if anything to stop the constant cries of 'forward' on every pass 

[DavidM]

Just no . Less tech please not more. It’s distorted the game enough as it is , this is just ridiculous ... yes let’s do the sums , put all the data in the computer and work out if it’s a forward pass 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

You need to measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opponents goal line) at the instant the two part company.

If the balls velocity (towards the goal line) is less than the players, at that moment, its a legal pass.

Wouldn`t the velocity of the ball have to exceed that of the player? i.e. if the two velocities are equal, the pass is fine because level is legal.

Even in the unlikely event this technology is 100% reliable, it`s fraught with risk in terms of its effect on the culture. It could provoke more neurotic rage since it plays into a traditional obsession.

Far better to encourage everyone to just lighten up. Very few bad ones go undetected. And if a forward pass is missed, it makes little if any difference to how the play can be defended.

If officials are certain a pass went forward - call it. If they have any doubt - play on.

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

Ah that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Personally I'd like to see it put in place if anything to stop the constant cries of 'forward' on every pass 

Some blokes do that because they want everyone to know they can see things others fail to see. It can be highly competitive. Whichever primate gets his cry of "Forward" in first gets to lead the pack. He is the alpha male. For that moment.

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

You need to measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opponents goal line) at the instant the two part company.

If the balls velocity (towards the goal line) is less than the players, at that moment, its a legal pass.

what if player stops running or starts to stop running after the pass and thus impacting his velocity.

[fighting irish]

23 minutes ago, redjonn said:

what if player stops running or starts to stop running after the pass and thus impacting his velocity.

The measurement must be made immediately the ball loses contact with his hand/s. What he does after that is of no consequence. 

[bobbruce]

5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

You need to measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opponents goal line) at the instant the two part company.

If the balls velocity (towards the goal line) is less than the players, at that moment, its a legal pass.

And wind speed/effect on the ball?.

[fighting irish]

3 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

And wind speed/effect on the ball?.

once  the player has lost contact with the ball, he's not responsible for the effect of the wind. As long as he is not guilty of passing it forward, (relative to his body in motion) then a high speed following wind could push the ball forward but its not a forward pass.

Just imagine he's carrying the ball at 8 metres per second towards the opposition goal line. He passes it back (relative to his body in motion). The results is that the ball is still travelling towards the opposition goal line but at something less than the 8 metres per second it was moving at, while he was carrying it.  Now relative to the ground, its travelling forward towards the opposition goal line, but relative to the passer its motion towards the opposition goal line has slowed down, so the pass is legal.

If then a following wind, accelerates the ball to a speed in excess of the 8 metres per second, the ball will overtake the player who passed the ball, but he's not guilty of a ''forward pass''. 

If the technology can measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opposition goal line) and at the instant they part company  (the ball leaves his hands) the ball is travelling slower than the passer then the pass is legal.  

[Clogiron]

That explains why Cameron Smith decided to retire

The simple way to solve this age old issue is to change the rule to state the ball must be passed backwards, no flat passes, the receiver must be behind the man who passes the ball.

[bobbruce]

48 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

once  the player has lost contact with the ball, he's not responsible for the effect of the wind. As long as he is not guilty of passing it forward, (relative to his body in motion) then a high speed following wind could push the ball forward but its not a forward pass.

Just imagine he's carrying the ball at 8 metres per second towards the opposition goal line. He passes it back (relative to his body in motion). The results is that the ball is still travelling towards the opposition goal line but at something less than the 8 metres per second it was moving at, while he was carrying it.  Now relative to the ground, its travelling forward towards the opposition goal line, but relative to the passer its motion towards the opposition goal line has slowed down, so the pass is legal.

If then a following wind, accelerates the ball to a speed in excess of the 8 metres per second, the ball will overtake the player who passed the ball, but he's not guilty of a ''forward pass''. 

If the technology can measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opposition goal line) and at the instant they part company  (the ball leaves his hands) the ball is travelling slower than the passer then the pass is legal.  

My question was how they will take into account the effect the wind has on the ball. As you say if they measure it the split second it is passed that would negate that. Let’s see what they come up with. 

[voteronniegibbs]

Or they could just teach players how to pass the ball correctly

[Padge]

8 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Be interesting to see what they come up with here. If it is good I’d imagine it would be too expensive for SL. Still have no idea how they will measure the effect of wind on the ball. 

That is the first thing I thought of.

[Padge]

8 hours ago, fighting irish said:

You need to measure the velocity of the player and the ball (towards the opponents goal line) at the instant the two part company.

If the balls velocity (towards the goal line) is less than the players, at that moment, its a legal pass.

Not if wind adds momentum to the ball.

[Padge]

6 hours ago, fighting irish said:

The measurement must be made immediately the ball loses contact with his hand/s. What he does after that is of no consequence. 

You haven't read the laws of the game then.

[Padge]

2 hours ago, Clogiron said:

That explains why Cameron Smith decided to retire

The simple way to solve this age old issue is to change the rule to state the ball must be passed backwards, no flat passes, the receiver must be behind the man who passes the ball.

The game would be impossible to play.

[fighting irish]

4 minutes ago, Padge said:

You haven't read the laws of the game then.

Please quote the rule for me (if you have a copy of the rule book) since you've thrown down the gauntlet. 

I have read the laws of the game, many times in fact but not in the last 10 years or so.

Please enlighten me? 

[M j M]

56 minutes ago, voteronniegibbs said:

Or they could just teach players how to pass the ball correctly

Players already know how to pass? There are however some borderline issues with determining whether a pass is forward from the hands or not which this technology could help with.

Although I agree with other posts it may be one piece of tech too far in terms of actually implementing it.

[Southerner]

So contradictory when they’re trying to speed up the game and restarts but this will add to the list of things to check when awarding a try

[fighting irish]

45 minutes ago, Padge said:

You haven't read the laws of the game then.

I copied this line, from the RFL website:-

Ball is blown or bounces forward If the ball is passed correctly but bounces forward or is blown forward by the wind, there is no infringement and play should continue.

I hope this is helpful to you. I'm eager for an explanation of your comment quoted above?

Was it sarcasm? (a backhanded compliment.)

Or were you just being silly, or do you have a serious point to make?

My explanation is consistent with this extract from the RFL rules of the game.

[Padge]

8 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Please quote the rule for me (if you have a copy of the rule book) since you've thrown down the gauntlet. 

I have read the laws of the game, many times in fact but not in the last 10 years or so.

Please enlighten me? 

Direction of Pass 1. The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running towards his opponents’ goal line may throw the ball towards a colleague who is behind him but because of the thrower’s own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not
passed the ball forward in relation to himself. This is particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high, lobbed pass.

What the ball does when it leaves the players hands is irrelevant, it is all about relativity to motion.

 

[Padge]

3 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

I copied this line, from the RFL website:-

Ball is blown or bounces forward If the ball is passed correctly but bounces forward or is blown forward by the wind, there is no infringement and play should continue.

I hope this is helpful to you. I'm eager for an explanation of your comment quoted above?

Was it sarcasm? (a backhanded compliment.)

Or were you just being silly, or do you have a serious point to make?

My explanation is consistent with this extract from the RFL rules of the game.

Hang on, you are backing up my point.