It's time to change positions

[marklaspalmas]

You don't have to be a player or a coach to see how much the different roles of each player have changed in rugby league over the last 20-30 years*.

Most player positions were named originally with reference to the scrum, which is almost extinct.

Full-back wingers and centres are still decent description of those roles.

Stand-off and scrum-half have merged into half-backs (one left, one right), though some older fans do protest there is a difference between what was the old 6 and 7.

Second rowers standing inside the half-backs are easy enough to distinguish in terms of their roles.

Hookers are now dummy-halves/acting half-backs.

That leaves three others, the middle defenders alongside the hooker. They used to be the props and the loose forward. I was surprised to hear reference on here to players as loose forwards, as the term seems obsolete. Some middles are better ball-handlers than others, but the old 8, 10 and 13 are really the same position aren't they?

So, is it time for a change in terms of positional names?

Either way, I do think it's time to redesign TV graphics in terms of how the line up is visually presented. Traditionally it's still done in "scrum formation" which is nonsense for the casual viewer.

Similarly, the way players are listed on a team sheet. No resemblance to how players line up. FB, then left side 4, middle 4, right side 4, would be more useful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I know this may have been done before, but it never stopped anyone else.

* Aoologies to deep thinkers about the game, this is rather superficial.

 

[GUBRATS]

No

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

You don't have to be a player or a coach to see how much the different roles of each player have changed in rugby league over the last 20-30 years*.

Most player positions were named originally with reference to the scrum, which is almost extinct.

Full-back wingers and centres are still decent description of those roles.

Stand-off and scrum-half have merged into half-backs (one left, one right), though some older fans do protest there is a difference between what was the old 6 and 7.

Second rowers standing inside the half-backs are easy enough to distinguish in terms of their roles.

Hookers are now dummy-halves/acting half-backs.

That leaves three others, the middle defenders alongside the hooker. They used to be the props and the loose forward. I was surprised to hear reference on here to players as loose forwards, as the term seems obsolete. Some middles are better ball-handlers than others, but the old 8, 10 and 13 are really the same position aren't they?

So, is it time for a change in terms of positional names?

Either way, I do think it's time to redesign TV graphics in terms of how the line up is visually presented. Traditionally it's still done in "scrum formation" which is nonsense for the casual viewer.

Similarly, the way players are listed on a team sheet. No resemblance to how players line up. FB, then left side 4, middle 4, right side 4, would be more useful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I know this may have been done before, but it never stopped anyone else.

* Aoologies to deep thinkers about the game, this is rather superficial.

 

Already happened , Leeds changed their hookers to quarter backs years ago 

[Rupert Prince]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Already happened , Leeds changed their hookers to quarter backs years ago 

Hope you are well Mr G...

I wonder if ... on the assumptions that scrums are abolished (I hope not) the hooker is renamed the Snap.

The halves could be called Quarterbacks as they are the organisers.   I'm not sure RL has one sole quarterback.

[The Phantom Horseman]

Have said this several times so agree with everything Mark says here.

 

[Eddie]

Who cares if positions have changed, they’re traditional names and I like that. Do you see anyone complaining about the use of the term Centre Half in football? 

[Robin Evans]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Who cares if positions have changed, they’re traditional names and I like that. Do you see anyone complaining about the use of the term Centre Half in football? 

Well.... its mainly "central defender" as much as centre afe....and I haven't heard right/left half or inside right/left in yonks....

[Gerrumonside ref]

I don’t know about renaming the positions exactly, but I think the TV presentation needs to explain the tactics and strategy of these positions for the casual fan on the big occasions like Grand Final, England, Challenge Cup and Magic.

I know this might mean some ardent viewers will feel like they’re being told to suck eggs a bit, but there’s a sweetspot to be found I believe where everyone can learn something.

 

[GUBRATS]

32 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Hope you are well Mr G...

I wonder if ... on the assumptions that scrums are abolished (I hope not) the hooker is renamed the Snap.

The halves could be called Quarterbacks as they are the organisers.   I'm not sure RL has one sole quarterback.

No , the quarterbacks throw the ball forwards , hence why that's what the Leeds no 9 should be called 

[marklaspalmas]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No , the quarterbacks throw the ball forwards , hence why that's what the Leeds no 9 should be called 

The jokes you have to explain are always the funniest. Thanks for your input.

 

Back on thread, if not name changes, then why not a re-jig of how line ups are presented graphically on TV in this age of squad numbers?

[Rupert Prince]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No , the quarterbacks throw the ball forwards , hence why that's what the Leeds no 9 should be called 

Well, they call the plays.

 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

Well, they call the plays.

 

Yes ,left or right

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

The jokes you have to explain are always the funniest. Thanks for your input.

 

Back on thread, if not name changes, then why not a re-jig of how line ups are presented graphically on TV in this age of squad numbers?

You bored Mark ?

[Eddie]

32 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

Well.... its mainly "central defender" as much as centre afe....and I haven't heard right/left half or inside right/left in yonks....

I think most people would still say centre half instead of central defender, certainly anyone over 40. But yeah you rarely hear inside right (my dad would probably still say that tho ). 

[Chris Taylor]

1 hour ago, marklaspalmas said:

Either way, I do think it's time to redesign TV graphics in terms of how the line up is visually presented. Traditionally it's still done in "scrum formation" which is nonsense for the casual viewer.

I've never thought about this, but you make a good point. Why not have the graphics set to where you will likely see them in the defensive or attacking line (ideally attacking line). 

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Chris Taylor said:

I've never thought about this, but you make a good point. Why not have the graphics set to where you will likely see them in the defensive or attacking line (ideally attacking line). 

Agree totally, the graphic line up makes little sense to where they are on a pitch

[marklaspalmas]

I think this could help regular fans to understand the sport as it is today, without blinding them with tactical info and coach-speak.

Even if scrums do ever come back, their importance in the game has gone forever. We've moved on.

It would help change how the game is presented on TV.

it would also have the advantage of making things easier for newbies to understand or more accessible to fans of other sports. If done properly, this would be an opportunity to show casual viewers how different to rugby onion, Rugby League is.

Someone brought up soccer, and it's taken that sport ages for the fans to get away from 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 as the only possible tactical variations in their sport. Rugby League has always been much more dynamic than that.

 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

I think this could help regular fans to understand the sport as it is today, without blinding them with tactical info and coach-speak.

Even if scrums do ever come back, their importance in the game has gone forever. We've moved on.

It would help change how the game is presented on TV.

it would also have the advantage of making things easier for newbies to understand or more accessible to fans of other sports. If done properly, this would be an opportunity to show casual viewers how different to rugby onion, Rugby League is.

Someone brought up soccer, and it's taken that sport ages for the fans to get away from 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 as the only possible tactical variations in their sport. Rugby League has always been much more dynamic than that.

 

What about the old                        2

                                                         3

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?

[Angelic Cynic]

Thay now have ' False number 10's ' when explaining soccer tactics - but our commentators on Sky don't bother to learn the latest rule changes so that don't help regulars or newbies.

If there are to be changes,and an attempt to draw a distinction between the two rugby codes,then I agreed with Phil Caplan on a podcast,from last month/6 weeks ago,where changing the name of the sport was imperative.

The Covid break,and being on the cusp of the World Cup would have been the ideal time.

I think the opportunity has been lost.

Moving forward and looking ahead aren't things synonymous with innovative rugby league and the transparent governing bodies.

[Eddie]

30 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Thay now have ' False number 10's ' when explaining soccer tactics - but our commentators on Sky don't bother to learn the latest rule changes so that don't help regulars or newbies.

If there are to be changes,and an attempt to draw a distinction between the two rugby codes,then I agreed with Phil Caplan on a podcast,from last month/6 weeks ago,where changing the name of the sport was imperative.

The Covid break,and being on the cusp of the World Cup would have been the ideal time.

I think the opportunity has been lost.

Moving forward and looking ahead aren't things synonymous with innovative rugby league and the transparent governing bodies.

A lot of football positions are just pretentious nowadays though, a 7 year old mate of my boy’s told me he was a number 10 the other day, absurd. Like in the 90s when Serie A (as superb as it was) was in its pomp and everyone was using Italian names for defensive formations.

[Man of Kent]

Generally happy as it is but I’d like to see hookers renamed quarterbacks. That’s exactly what they are. 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Generally happy as it is but I’d like to see hookers renamed quarterbacks. That’s exactly what they are. 

No they aren't , if anything they are half backs , acting half backs 

[Man of Kent]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

No they aren't , if anything they are half backs , acting half backs 

No, chief. The half back stands halfway between the backs and forwards. That’s why they are called halfbacks.

[2blackrooks]

Back in the day when I played you could easily pick a players position by the way they looked I was skinny..ish but he'll could I run so winger for me,

hooker... short, tough as nuts 

Props even 2nd row... were beasts massive 

Loose forward.... big lad but could run and had good feet 

Scrum half... Even stand off smallest lad on the pitch but could get where water couldn't..nippy wee buggers

Centres were good ball handlers, runners with a bit of muscle behind them 

Full back....who the hell wanted toplay that position is beyond me 

Back in the today, players just look the same, huge, beasts, the preverbial brick s#@t houses

 

 

 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

No, chief. The half back stands halfway between the backs and forwards. That’s why they are called halfbacks.

Way back when , before we had interchanges the hookers didn't spend anywhere near as much time at ' acting half ' , that was primarily the number 7s job