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Putting Leigh in SL is the biggest mistake RL ever made (Merged threads)


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I just want to understand the logic for putting Leigh in SL coz I still don't understand. 

Toulouse has just signed a 9 year deal with Stade Toulousain that not just allows them to play at the iconic ground but gives them a major presence at the complex. In addition to that they now have backing from the various local authorities which in France is significant. With the partnerships they have in place  I'm confident in saying that over the next few years Toulouse will quickly become one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

The commercial partnerships that Toulouse have are on a different scale to Leigh's and it gives the RL exposure to the 4th biggest city in France that has a population in the  metropolitan area of over 1.3 million, plus many more across the South West region. It would have increased the competition's presence in France and the number of professional players which allows the France national team to become more and more competitive and create a natural rival for England on its doorstep, that has so many commercial benefits in itself to UK RL. 

We were told over and over that they had an 'oven baked squad' ready to compete. If that's the case why are they now loaning a player from another SL club? On paper, their squad wasn't any better than Toulouse's and they finished below them in the league table in recent seasons.

Apparently the bids were assessed by an 'independent panel of experts' yet there has been no explanation into the reasoning behind the decision. 

To top it all off the majority of people in this country don't even know where Leigh is and thought that the parish of Leigh-on-Sea in Essex had entered a team into SL.

It was a terrible decision which says so much about the mindset of people running the sport here. It's several months on and I'm still disgusted 

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I just want to understand the logic for putting Leigh in SL coz I still don't understand.  Toulouse has just signed a 9 year deal with Stade Toulousain that not just allows them to play at the ic

Toulouse will hopefully get promoted on the back of a winning season which also helps selling tickets and corporates for their first season in the big time. I have no problem with Leigh being promoted

If I were at Toulouse, I wouldn't have been too anxious to get a free ticket into $uperleague for 2021. Too many obstacles to international travel at the moment, too much uncertainty, too little

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2 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

I just want to understand the logic for putting Leigh in SL coz I still don't understand. 

With the partnerships they have in place  I'm confident in saying that over the next few years Toulouse will quickly become one of the biggest clubs in Europe.

Apparently the bids were assessed by an 'independent panel of experts' yet there has been no explanation into the reasoning behind the decision. 

To top it all off the majority of people in this country don't even know where Leigh is and thought that the parish of Leigh-on-Sea in Essex had entered a team into SL.

It was a terrible decision which says so much about the mindset of people running the sport here. It's several months on and I'm still disgusted 

Well wasn't it a bit of a poisoned Chalice anyway. It's likely Leigh may go straight back down as they had no preparation time and few decent players were available.

I know Toulouse applied but for me if they can win promotion acrosss a succeffful season and in doing so have the time, and interest to build something big  that will give them far more chance of staying up is that not better>

I've been around many years and time passes quickly. It may not be long before Toulouse go up with far more chance of staying up than leigh have got now?? 

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The fact that Toulouse are an overseas team was undoubtedly a major factor in them missing out for 2021. When the decision was made there were still a lot of unknowns with Covid, and the fact that France has now gone into a 3rd lockdown sort of proved their point that it would have been a major risk to fulfilling the fixture schedule by promoting Toulouse.

So while they probably were the better option under normal circumstance, their geographical location worked against them for this season.

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If I were at Toulouse, I wouldn't have been too anxious to get a free ticket into $uperleague for 2021.

Too many obstacles to international travel at the moment, too much uncertainty, too little time to recruit a $uperleague squad.

The delay may have a silver lining.

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Just now, Saint Toppy said:

The fact that Toulouse are an overseas team was undoubtedly a major factor in them missing out for 2021. When the decision was made there were still a lot of unknowns with Covid, and the fact that France has now gone into a 3rd lockdown sort of proved their point that it would have been a major risk to fulfilling the fixture schedule by promoting Toulouse.

So while they probably were the better option under normal circumstance, their geographical location worked against them for this season.

Yet it's caused even more problems by keeping them in the Championship. No one can predict what is going to happen with COVID. 

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According to a recent 5 Live RL podcast, York were told explicitly that of all the criteria, on field competitiveness was the one deemed most important by the powers that be...

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

According to a recent 5 Live RL podcast, York were told explicitly that of all the criteria, on field competitiveness was the one deemed most important by the powers that be...

Yet Toulouse performed better than Leigh in the last completed season and in my view had a better squad. 

Also, it's not just about the player names but the coaching team play a strong part in preparation and performance 

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Current logic would put 

 

Toulouse

York 

Newcastle 

 

All above leigh

 

I'm not sure how many fans Leigh can attract but like Salford and Wakefield I don't see them as super league teams of the future. 

 

That's if we want to set world class strategies and objectives 

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4 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Yet Toulouse performed better than Leigh in the last completed season and in my view had a better squad. 

Also, it's not just about the player names but the coaching team play a strong part in preparation and performance 

I think reading between the lines the point was that the process was utter nonsense.

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4 minutes ago, The storm said:

Current logic would put 

 

Toulouse

York 

Newcastle 

 

All above leigh

 

I'm not sure how many fans Leigh can attract but like Salford and Wakefield I don't see them as super league teams of the future. 

 

That's if we want to set world class strategies and objectives 

Would absolutely agree with that. 

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Toulouse will hopefully get promoted on the back of a winning season which also helps selling tickets and corporates for their first season in the big time. I have no problem with Leigh being promoted, they were willing to step up.

Once Toulouse and Catalans are both in SL however, there should be exemption from relegation for both clubs indefinitely. If you want to relegate a French club then you have to have another French club willing to take their place. We have just got to cut this #### out. The Championship is a penniless pit of teams that has survived on handouts and duel registration for years and years. It doesn't have enough organic vibrancy to have Anglo-French representation. We need to move on from this. 

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6 minutes ago, The storm said:

Current logic would put 

 

Toulouse

York 

Newcastle 

 

All above leigh

 

I'm not sure how many fans Leigh can attract but like Salford and Wakefield I don't see them as super league teams of the future. 

 

That's if we want to set world class strategies and objectives 

Why would logic put these 3 clubs higher than Leigh?

Apart from they're outside the traditional heartlands, what have they got going for them over Leigh? or any other club for that matter.

As much as I want to see the sport expand and have successful teams outside the heartlands, I don't see how logic dictates this.

Apart from Toulouse, who have been fairly competitive in the 2nd tier the last few years, there is no on field success, I don't know about financially, they all seem to be well run clubs, but they have less supporters combined than Leigh can usually attract and don't particularly have a major presence in their cities.

The only thing I can see is that they are building very good foundations and building their clubs up the right way to be sustainable and hopefully successful in the future, but as of now?

Let these clubs build further and really cement their roots and build steadily, and not try and throw them in as a desperate way of making the game look worldwide again.

Out of interest, would there be a clamour for a heartland club who had just come out of L1 and attracting less than 2,000 fans to be thrown into SL or does it just apply to non heartland clubs?

As I say, I'd love nothing better than to see the game being played and watched and talked about in all corners of the UK and beyond, but we must learn the lessons from PSG, Crusaders, Toronto etc and not just fast track clubs because they aren't from Northern mill/pit towns etc.

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25 minutes ago, The storm said:

Current logic would put 

 

Toulouse

York 

Newcastle 

 

All above leigh

 

 

You think any of those could have put out a competitive SL team on half funding ?

Whether people like it or not it was Beaumont’s willingness to sink a million into the pot that tipped the scales. The rest would have been cannon fodder without similar investment. 

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15 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Toulouse will hopefully get promoted on the back of a winning season which also helps selling tickets and corporates for their first season in the big time. I have no problem with Leigh being promoted, they were willing to step up.

Once Toulouse and Catalans are both in SL however, there should be exemption from relegation for both clubs indefinitely. If you want to relegate a French club then you have to have another French club willing to take their place. We have just got to cut this #### out. The Championship is a penniless pit of teams that has survived on handouts and duel registration for years and years. It doesn't have enough organic vibrancy to have Anglo-French representation. We need to move on from this. 

Pick xNr teams and no relegation.  Its plausible to have York, Newcastle and Toulouse.  14 teams.  Possibly 13 if you merge Wakey, Cas and Fev.

And off topic .... And off code as well I suppose ... But RU are trailing all sorts of new  rules in a "Rainbow" Competition.  RU has just got new investment money, it's looking to get a return on that.  It's no surprise that Sale are after the Salford ground.  My point is we in RL cannot stand still.  Next season we need to freshen up the competition... well both competitions.  This year we are marking time... we need to take advantage of that time, because otherwise time is going to run out.

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Just now, DavidM said:

And Manfred gets stick for his exaggerated thread titles 

Have you not worked out yet that they’re the same person ?

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It’s very knee-jerk and untrue that this is the worst decision the game has ever made. I mean, come on, this is Rugby League, we’ve made far worse decisions than admitting Leigh Centurions to Super League and I am pretty confident that we’ll continue to make far worse decisions in future.  

Leigh were the “easy” option. They ticked the boxes, openly said they’d “play for free” and offered up the least issues compared to some of the other clubs. In true Rugby League fashion, we’ve thrown them in at the deep end without the appropriate aides, and there’s people three rounds in looking confused by this. I’ve no interest in retorts about Toronto but the treatment of Leigh hasn’t been fair and it wouldn’t have been fair on any of the other clubs who applied, it was, and still is, a poisoned chalice for anyone who got the nod and Leigh can just do their best and hope for a miracle but quietly prepare for 2022 in the Championship in the meantime. 

Edited by Hela Wigmen
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4 minutes ago, Derwent said:

You think any of those could have put out a competitive SL team on half funding ?

Whether people like it or not it was Beaumont’s willingness to sink a million into the pot that tipped the scales. The rest would have been cannon fodder without similar investment. 

Leigh are cannon fodder right now 

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31 minutes ago, meast said:

Why would logic put these 3 clubs higher than Leigh?

Apart from they're outside the traditional heartlands, what have they got going for them over Leigh? or any other club for that matter.

As much as I want to see the sport expand and have successful teams outside the heartlands, I don't see how logic dictates this.

Apart from Toulouse, who have been fairly competitive in the 2nd tier the last few years, there is no on field success, I don't know about financially, they all seem to be well run clubs, but they have less supporters combined than Leigh can usually attract and don't particularly have a major presence in their cities.

The only thing I can see is that they are building very good foundations and building their clubs up the right way to be sustainable and hopefully successful in the future, but as of now?

Let these clubs build further and really cement their roots and build steadily, and not try and throw them in as a desperate way of making the game look worldwide again.

Out of interest, would there be a clamour for a heartland club who had just come out of L1 and attracting less than 2,000 fans to be thrown into SL or does it just apply to non heartland clubs?

As I say, I'd love nothing better than to see the game being played and watched and talked about in all corners of the UK and beyond, but we must learn the lessons from PSG, Crusaders, Toronto etc and not just fast track clubs because they aren't from Northern mill/pit towns etc.

Firstly, as a club I really like Leigh and there previous SL average was a healthy 6,000 so they, maybe with Fev, are good examples of little towns who could add value  (but not when we are limited to a 12 club SL) 

What York, Toulouse and Newcastle have is a much bigger population centre and commercial opportunities.  Leigh will never challenge for SL but all three above could.  

Thought experiment: If Toulouse had been given the nod to join on same 1 million or so deal how much in commercial revenue could they have made with their huge business community and their 450,000 plus population? 

Which game will grow the sport more, Leigh vs Wigan or Toulouse vs Catalán?

And you are right about being careful about expansión but comparing París to Toulouse is to ignore the reality of the work that has gone on.  

Super League should be 14 teams with both French clubs locked in.  That's 3 sell outs in France, an extra SL place and a 27 game season.  Top 6 playoffs, straight knock out.  

You could sell that with your eyes closed. 

 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Toulouse will hopefully get promoted on the back of a winning season which also helps selling tickets and corporates for their first season in the big time. I have no problem with Leigh being promoted, they were willing to step up.

Once Toulouse and Catalans are both in SL however, there should be exemption from relegation for both clubs indefinitely. If you want to relegate a French club then you have to have another French club willing to take their place. We have just got to cut this #### out. The Championship is a penniless pit of teams that has survived on handouts and duel registration for years and years. It doesn't have enough organic vibrancy to have Anglo-French representation. We need to move on from this. 

Why do French clubs deserve exemptions ? Lets face it Catalans inclusion in SL has done nothing for the French National teams competitiveness and nor has it done anything thats seen a significant increase in the numbers of top quality french players.

If they want any sort of exemptions then it should be only on the basis that they will benefit the international game in France. French clubs should be limited to 5 overseas players only with British players counting as overseas 

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7 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Why do French clubs deserve exemptions ? Lets face it Catalans inclusion in SL has done nothing for the French National teams competitiveness and nor has it done anything thats seen a significant increase in the numbers of top quality french players.

If they want any sort of exemptions then it should be only on the basis that they will benefit the international game in France. French clubs should be limited to 5 overseas players only with British players counting as overseas 

The world of International RL hasn't changed. The grandparent and heritage rule has. How many players can France call on in the same way Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Ireland etc. can? Imagine if England had only 2 full time clubs - how good would the England national side be?

Only around 3-4 NZ Warriors players will make the NZ test squad. It helps that around 100+ Kiwis are playing first grade at other clubs. The NZ Warriors job is to win - not help the NZ national team. Catalans are the same.

So you want relegation and a limit on non-French players. But it will be okay for the clubs they are trying to survive against to have as many as they like? Okay.

Edited by Scubby
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