Folau joins Southport Tigers

[Davo5]

7 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I feel that the people that financially supported his legal case, did so because they shared his concerns for freedom of speech. He never lost his case, so those freedoms are still reasonably there and those supporters have achieved what they set out to achieve.

I bet they’d like their money back too seeing that the battle for free speech didn’t happen and Folau lined his pockets before jetting of the France to a club that despite universal condemnation rescued his career.

Remind me how he repaid the Dragons.

[Dunbar]

8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I feel that the people that financially supported his legal case, did so because they shared his concerns for freedom of speech. He never lost his case, so those freedoms are still reasonably there and those supporters have achieved what they set out to achieve.

In my view that's a very kind reading of the situation. 

My reading is that he took money from a lot of people to fight a legal battle and then didn't actually fight the battle that he had promised and in the end actually apologised for the hurt caused by his social media post as part of the settlement. 

He got the multi million dollar payout from the ARU and no doubt kept the left over cash from the legal funds as well.

If he had used his own money (of which he has a lot) to fight his legal case with the ARU and then settled out of court then I would have no gripes.  It is the fact he took other people's money on the pretence of fighting for something they cared for and then bailing and not fighting for it that annoyes me so much.

It takes two parties to settle out of court and Folau could have continued his fight until the highest court to protect the freedoms that he apparently so cherished and promised to protect for the many people that supported his case.

But no.  He took the money and apologised.  There are a few words to describe people who take other people's money, not do with it what they promised and keep it.  I wonder where they rank on his original social media posts?

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, Dunbar said:

In my view that's a very kind reading of the situation. 

My reading is that he took money from a lot of people to fight a legal battle and then didn't actually fight the battle that he had promised and in the end actually apologised for the hurt caused by his social media post as part of the settlement. 

He got the multi million dollar payout from the ARU and no doubt kept the left over cash from the legal funds as well.

If he had used his own money (of which he has a lot) to fight his legal case with the ARU and then settled out of court then I would have no gripes.  It is the fact he took other people's money on the pretence of fighting for something they cared for and then bailing and not fighting for it that annoyes me so much.

It takes two parties to settle out of court and Folau could have continued his fight until the highest court to protect the freedoms that he apparently so cherished and promised to protect for the many people that supported his case.

But no.  He took the money and apologised.  There are a few words to describe people who take other people's money, not do with it what they promised and keep it.  I wonder where they rank on his original social media posts?

Neither Australian Rugby or IF have the money to take religious freedom of speech rights to the high court.

I don’t think society has the stomach for it themselves.

To say he kept any crowd funding money is simply conjecture. For all you know, he paid it all back. In fact, I bet you have no idea of the charitable causes he may significantly finance.

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

To say he kept any crowd funding money is simply conjecture. For all you know, he paid it all back. In fact, I bet you have no idea of the charitable causes he may significantly finance.

All I can do is make a judgement on the available evidence.  I cannot comment on the things we know nothing about.

[gingerjon]

18 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I bet you have no idea of the charitable causes he may significantly finance.

You can't prove that I'm not really the Crown Prince of Liechtenstein.

[Sports Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

All I can do is make a judgement on the available evidence.  I cannot comment on the things we know nothing about.

But commenting on the things you know nothing about is exactly what you did. You said he no doubt kept the cash that was raised for his legal battle. That is pure conjecture.

Israel was sacked by Australian Rugby for his social media posts. That Australian Rugby financially settled out of court achieved what his financial supporters set out to achieve. 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

But commenting on the things you know nothing about is exactly what you did. You said he no doubt kept the cash that was raised for his legal battle. That is pure conjecture.

Israel was sacked by Australian Rugby for his social media posts. That Australian Rugby financially settled out of court achieved what his financial supporters set out to achieve. 

1. The money was raised and there was no announcement that the money was returned to the donators or given to charity etc. The logical assumption on the absence of any other evidence is that the recipient still has the money.

2. Do you honestly believe that those who donated were doing it for Folau to get an out of court settlement and issue an apology for the hurt or harm caused?

[Sports Prophet]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

1. The money was raised and there was no announcement that the money was returned to the donators or given to charity etc. The logical assumption on the absence of any other evidence is that the recipient still has the money.

2. Do you honestly believe that those who donated were doing it for Folau to get an out of court settlement and issue an apology for the hurt or harm caused?

1. Well there was an announcement. An announcement from GoFundMe saying his fundraising account had been shut down and issued full refunds to all donors.

2. I cannot speak for everyone who signed up to fund him. What I do know is that IF was taking RA to court for unfair dismissal based on his religious beliefs. He was compensated by his former employers in an out of court settlement, so if they were funding for his cause, then yes, I think they got the result they were hoping for.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

1. Well there was an announcement. An announcement from GoFundMe saying his fundraising account had been shut down and issued full refunds to all donors.

2. I cannot speak for everyone who signed up to fund him. What I do know is that IF was taking RA to court for unfair dismissal based on his religious beliefs. He was compensated by his former employers in an out of court settlement, so if they were funding for his cause, then yes, I think they got the result they were hoping for.

The money raised from the Cristian organisations was a response to the GoFundMe page being closed. It is that second 'pot' that I am referring to.

Yes, I agree we cannot speak for all the donators.

My personal view is that if you believe in something and promise to fight for it, you fight for it. Don't take the money and settle. Maybe without the apology issued it would be ok bit with the apology it just looks like a money issue to me. Happy if you feel differently. 

[Sports Prophet]

7 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The money raised from the Cristian organisations was a response to the GoFundMe page being closed. It is that second 'pot' that I am referring to.

Yes, I agree we cannot speak for all the donators.

My personal view is that if you believe in something and promise to fight for it, you fight for it. Don't take the money and settle. Maybe without the apology issued it would be ok bit with the apology it just looks like a money issue to me. Happy if you feel differently. 

That money was donated to the Australia. Christian Lobby, so no, he did not keep that money either, so you should really retract your accusation that he most likely kept any leftover donations.

The case was always going to end in a settlement. A financial settlement by his former employers. It was a legal victory for IF and his supporters. There is no escaping that. 

He never apologised for his comments, he stands by them. He expressed sorrow for any hurt or harm his comments may have caused Rugby Australia as an organisation. Two very different things.

[Dunbar]

8 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That money was donated to the Australia. Christian Lobby, so no, he did not keep that money either, so you should really retract your accusation that he most likely kept any leftover donations.

The case was always going to end in a settlement. A financial settlement by his former employers. It was a legal victory for IF and his supporters. There is no escaping that. 

He never apologised for his comments, he stands by them. He expressed sorrow for any hurt or harm his comments may have caused Rugby Australia as an organisation. Two very different things.

OK, if the Australian Christian Lobby held the money and funded Folau's case then I will retract the statement that Folau kept the cash left over from the legal fight.

But what I 100% stand by is the fact that alongside the Christian Lobby he raised that money to fight for the legal right to freedom of religious expression and that his supporters were donating to support this battle.

It was not always going to end in a settlement.  If Folau and the Christian Lobby wanted to take the case forward and to the highest court in the land to win a ruling on the right to express religious opinion then they could have.  But they chose not to.  They chose to settle and I maintain 100% that at least a subset of those that donated were let down by a settlement as they were promised a legal battle to affirm their rights.

Folau is quoted as saying that he started legal proceedings to protect the "rights of freedom of speech and religion".  He did not do this.  He took the settlement.

Rugby Australia and Israel Folau settle legal dispute over sacking - ABC News

The apology simply highlights this lack of fight.  Yes, the apology was to the ARU for any hurt or harm caused.  But if he was fighting for his rights to express his freedom of religious expression then why did he apologise to the organisation that fired him for making those comments in the first place?

The bottom line is that Folau took other people's money to fight for the rights of freedom of speech for religion.  He didn't take that fight to the courts and took a load of money instead.  Again, if you are ok with that then fine but I have zero respect for him over these actions.

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

OK, if the Australian Christian Lobby held the money and funded Folau's case then I will retract the statement that Folau kept the cash left over from the legal fight.

But what I 100% stand by is the fact that alongside the Christian Lobby he raised that money to fight for the legal right to freedom of religious expression and that his supporters were donating to support this battle.

It was not always going to end in a settlement.  If Folau and the Christian Lobby wanted to take the case forward and to the highest court in the land to win a ruling on the right to express religious opinion then they could have.  But they chose not to.  They chose to settle and I maintain 100% that at least a subset of those that donated were let down by a settlement as they were promised a legal battle to affirm their rights.

Folau is quoted as saying that he started legal proceedings to protect the "rights of freedom of speech and religion".  He did not do this.  He took the settlement.

Rugby Australia and Israel Folau settle legal dispute over sacking - ABC News

The apology simply highlights this lack of fight.  Yes, the apology was to the ARU for any hurt or harm caused.  But if he was fighting for his rights to express his freedom of religious expression then why did he apologise to the organisation that fired him for making those comments in the first place?

The bottom line is that Folau took other people's money to fight for the rights of freedom of speech for religion.  He didn't take that fight to the courts and took a load of money instead.  Again, if you are ok with that then fine but I have zero respect for him over these actions.

I think your arguing with the one man Israel Folau fan club.

[Sports Prophet]

22 hours ago, Davo5 said:

I think your arguing with the one man Israel Folau fan club.

I’m not a fan Davo, but neither do I think he is deserving of the public outcry that has besieged him.

I would be far more welcoming of people that disagree with him, to do so in a civilised and constructive manner, rather than doubling down with public outrage which only serves to inflame the whole topic and further polarise society.

[Davo5]

9 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’m not a fan Davo, but neither do I think he is deserving of the public outcry that has besieged him.

I would be far more welcoming of people that disagree with him, to do so in a civilised and constructive manner, rather than doubling down with public outrage which only serves to inflame the whole topic and further polarise society.

You crack on,to me he’s an absolute W️

[Davo5]

And he’s off,I’m sure the Southport Tigers are extremely thankful for his contribution to their club.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/australian-rugby-news-former-wallabies-star-israel-folau-japanese-top-league-ntt-communications-shining-arcs/news-story/4f06f72438eebd33add33133fddfa385?fbclid=IwAR1gRc4wR4mx7M_OSpjy26wTmke3bFNJ4A__bvD9ZfTrFLOuHZRyDZmoFbc

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

And he’s off,I’m sure the Southport Tigers are extremely thankful for his contribution to their club.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/australian-rugby-news-former-wallabies-star-israel-folau-japanese-top-league-ntt-communications-shining-arcs/news-story/4f06f72438eebd33add33133fddfa385?fbclid=IwAR1gRc4wR4mx7M_OSpjy26wTmke3bFNJ4A__bvD9ZfTrFLOuHZRyDZmoFbc

What a guy.

[BrisbaneRhino]

If it hasn't already eventually it will end up with everyone outside Folau's immediate family and church thinking he's a mercenary with few morals. Its starting to feel like a sporting version of that Louis Theroux documentary "The Most Hated Family in America". Maybe Louis should do a show about Folau so he can tell everyone how he's been so misunderstood. 

[lucky 7]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

What a guy.

He's made Clive Palmer look like a proper goose

[dkw]

I`m looking forward to Sports Prophet take on this latest unforeseen development....

[Cumbrian Mackem]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

What a guy.

I think old Israel needs to practice a little more what he preaches.

Matthew 6:24

“No man can serve two masters: for either he. Will hate the one, and love the other; or else. He will hold to the one, and despise the other, ye cannot serve god and mammon.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

If it hasn't already eventually it will end up with everyone outside Folau's immediate family and church thinking he's a mercenary with few morals. Its starting to feel like a sporting version of that Louis Theroux documentary "The Most Hated Family in America". Maybe Louis should do a show about Folau so he can tell everyone how he's been so misunderstood. 

I think even louis theroux may draw the line on doing a documentary on Folau.. 

[The Rocket]

17 minutes ago, RP London said:

I think even louis theroux may draw the line on doing a documentary on Folau.. 

He could put it on the b-side with his Jimmy Saville interviews, another character who presented two faces to the world.

[The Rocket]

3 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

He's made Clive Palmer look like a proper goose

You could be right there. Story reported in the Gold Coast Bulletin :

‘THAT’S BULLS---!’: PALMER OFFICIAL BLINDSIDED BY FOLAU SIGNING

The latest twist in the Israel Folau saga has seen the controversial star sign with a new professional footy team.

 

 

[Sports Prophet]

13 hours ago, dkw said:

I`m looking forward to Sports Prophet take on this latest unforeseen development....

Unforeseen alright and I am surprised. I did read the article and note the Japanese Rugby season is set to start in September.

Did he have a clause in his Southport contract that he can’t play Japanese Rugby in the off season? (Edit note* he may not even have a Southport contract registered with QRL)

He can do or say what he wants. His opinions mean little to me, but his right to express it does.

If he hasn’t broken his Southport contract and going to earn a few more bucks, then good on him.

If he is reneging on a contract with Southport then you won’t see me defend that.

[jacobus]

At least now he's going back to union we can all worry about our own sport again.