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2 hours ago, Copa said:

If rugby league continues to take off in the pacific we’ll dominate a region of the world.

The population may be small compared to elsewhere but the optics of dominating a region of the world is very appealing.

We’d also then dominate and control a major hotspot for world collision sport playing talent.

I also say this without trying to seem condescending, but it’s also a great thing to have all these smaller countries feel connected by a common sport that builds relationships, good will and community focus. 

Then can we play some games there?

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6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

The problem with those benefits is that they are intangible and in turn difficult to justify when they can come at the expense of more tangible benefits.

I don’t think the NRL are anti international. I just think that the NRL doesn’t want a mid-season window. I remember hearing that consistently, mid-season internationals like Anzac tests and Pacific tests come at a financial loss for the NRL. This loss is further exacerbated with the risk of injuries to the NRLs most valuable asset, which then compromises the quality of their extremely profitable club game right at the business end of the season. That risk is somewhat offset if taken solely at the end of a season, rather than in the middle of it.

And before someone thinks this is a hypocritical stance when that same injury risk exists for a mid season Origin series, I will kindly remind them that any injury to a player resulting from Origin fixtures has come with the benefit of a cash cow.

Personally, I would love to see a mid season international window. The Pacific tests have been some of my favourite games all year. I would be happy to see the SOO series replaced by internationals, but at least I understand the financial reasoning why that won’t happen. So demonstrating my frustration that it doesn’t happen like many are here is about as useful as screaming at the rain.

What is needed is a different solution, because the call for a mid season international test/s is an option the NRL have tested and have obviously decided will continue to be a failure.

I think it is deeper than this. The game has been hijacked and is no longer run by an "independent" commission as was the case when Grant, Smith and Greenberg were in charge. News Corp have got hold of it again, also Nine along with the NRL clubs who can vote V'landys and Abdo out if they don't do as they want. So self interest is the winner!!

News Corp waged war on the 3 former leaders until they were gone as they jeopardised their future plans . Under theprevious leadership we had our best chance of independence. Now we are in "partnership" with News/Lachlan Murdoch and are headed in the same direction ie. sports betting.

This is what has been going on in the back ground for some time.

The NFL has done a deal and I can guarantee this is what will happen in the NRL this year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/25/nfl-sports-betting/

It all ties together with the long TV deal, Racing man V'landys, Matt Tripp etc

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/news-corp-s-hunt-for-wagering-partner-enters-final-phase-20211212-p59gwr.html

So nine want origin protected so ALL available players are playing for QLD or NSW. No international games which players would choose to play for, remember 45% of players in NRL are now of polynesian background. This worries the powers that be because it threatens the strength/value of origin. Solution play international games at the end of the season. 

Don't believe Nine don't value club RL it is the only sport that has strong penetration into the massive Western Sydney market for 30 odd weeks a year. It is worth a heap to them in advertising. This is what Packer always coveted.

News Corp don't want the NRL compromised, again solution, play internationals at end of season.

NRL clubs want money and always do what will get them the most cash and their players on the field not missing games, again solution, play internationals at end of season. 

So the international game suffers as self interest always wins until we can get an independent strong world body which we never will.

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, rlno1 said:

I think it is deeper than this. The game has been hijacked and is no longer run by an "independent" commission as was the case when Grant, Smith and Greenberg were in charge. News Corp have got hold of it again, also Nine along with the NRL clubs who can vote V'landys and Abdo out if they don't do as they want. So self interest is the winner!!

News Corp waged war on the 3 former leaders until they were gone as they jeopardised their future plans . Under theprevious leadership we had our best chance of independence. Now we are in "partnership" with News/Lachlan Murdoch and are headed in the same direction ie. sports betting.

This is what has been going on in the back ground for some time.

The NFL has done a deal and I can guarantee this is what will happen in the NRL this year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/25/nfl-sports-betting/

It all ties together with the long TV deal, Racing man V'landys, Matt Tripp etc

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/news-corp-s-hunt-for-wagering-partner-enters-final-phase-20211212-p59gwr.html

So nine want origin protected so ALL available players are playing for QLD or NSW. No international games which players would choose to play for, remember 45% of players in NRL are now of polynesian background. This worries the powers that be because it threatens the strength/value of origin. Solution play international games at the end of the season. 

Don't believe Nine don't value club RL it is the only sport that has strong penetration into the massive Western Sydney market for 30 odd weeks a year. It is worth a heap to them in advertising. This is what Packer always coveted.

News Corp don't want the NRL compromised, again solution, play internationals at end of season.

NRL clubs want money and always do what will get them the most cash and their players on the field not missing games, again solution, play internationals at end of season. 

So the international game suffers as self interest always wins until we can get an independent strong world body which we never will.

 

 

 

Sadly this is 100% correct, most depressing 😔

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6 hours ago, rlno1 said:

I think it is deeper than this. The game has been hijacked and is no longer run by an "independent" commission as was the case when Grant, Smith and Greenberg were in charge. News Corp have got hold of it again, also Nine along with the NRL clubs who can vote V'landys and Abdo out if they don't do as they want. So self interest is the winner!!

News Corp waged war on the 3 former leaders until they were gone as they jeopardised their future plans . Under theprevious leadership we had our best chance of independence. Now we are in "partnership" with News/Lachlan Murdoch and are headed in the same direction ie. sports betting.

This is what has been going on in the back ground for some time.

The NFL has done a deal and I can guarantee this is what will happen in the NRL this year.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/08/25/nfl-sports-betting/

It all ties together with the long TV deal, Racing man V'landys, Matt Tripp etc

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/news-corp-s-hunt-for-wagering-partner-enters-final-phase-20211212-p59gwr.html

So nine want origin protected so ALL available players are playing for QLD or NSW. No international games which players would choose to play for, remember 45% of players in NRL are now of polynesian background. This worries the powers that be because it threatens the strength/value of origin. Solution play international games at the end of the season. 

Don't believe Nine don't value club RL it is the only sport that has strong penetration into the massive Western Sydney market for 30 odd weeks a year. It is worth a heap to them in advertising. This is what Packer always coveted.

News Corp don't want the NRL compromised, again solution, play internationals at end of season.

NRL clubs want money and always do what will get them the most cash and their players on the field not missing games, again solution, play internationals at end of season. 

So the international game suffers as self interest always wins until we can get an independent strong world body which we never will.

 

 

 

NRL to capitalise on legal US sports betting market (gamblinginsider.com)

Domestic sports wagering in Australia brought in AU$16m (US$11.8m) in 2017, with that number rising to AU$40m during the past league financial year amid the Covid-19 lockdown. But experts believe that cashing in on the US market could result in an increase of more than 50% of the code’s current wagering income within the next five years.

Australian Rugby League Commission (ARLC) Director Gary Weiss has been tasked with developing wagering products for the US market, with the aim of attracting overseas customers to bet on the NRL.

NRL Seeks to Cash in on US Sports Betting Bonanza - GamblingNews

The commission is discussing the matter with former Sportsbet executive BetEasy founder Matt Tripp who is also chairman and co-owner of Melbourne Storm. Tripp could potentially help the NRL gain a foothold in the US by advising on correct business and strategic moves so far as sports betting goes.

Execution Matter in NRL’s Overseas Success

Tripp has already commented on the idea cited by The Sydney Morning Herald and said that the league has a chance to leverage a growing market if it’s done correctly. He pointed out that revenue from sports gambling is only bound to increase when having the proper infrastructure for it. 

 

I don`t think this has to be a massive game changer, it will just be another potential revenue source of not too great a consequence. League doesn`t have a high enough profile in the U.S., if indeed many people have heard of it all to attract the large amounts of gambling revenue of which the NRL will only get a very small percentage. It is more likely that we will see more Foxbet gambling sponsorship in Oz. particularly of Stadiums and the like. 

One thing interesting though having read that Washington Post article will be to see the innovative ways that Foxbet will inveigle its` way into the viewing experience of watching League in this country. Interesting to read of the push-back in the U.S. and the way they managed that. I remember reading once it was Fox who turned American Football coverage on its` head years ago by introducing many innovative ways of presenting the game.

 

6 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Don't believe Nine don't value club RL it is the only sport that has strong penetration into the massive Western Sydney market for 30 odd weeks a year. It is worth a heap to them in advertising. This is what Packer always coveted.

News Corp don't want the NRL compromised, again solution, play internationals at end of season.

NRL clubs want money and always do what will get them the most cash and their players on the field not missing games, again solution, play internationals at end of season. 

This was the only point that @Sports Prophet got wrong in his very good summation. It was Channel 9 who didn`t want stand alone SoO weekends as it left Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights empty and a free kick for our competitors. Of course some would say fill those blank spaces with internationals but as SP pointed out there just isn`t the money or the ratings in them yet. Not to mention Nine and the NRL wanted the best players available.

 

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1 hour ago, rlno1 said:

Yes but what about the Tongan and Samoan international teams or do they play in Campbelltown, Penrith and Parramatta.

Tonga have had massive crowds in and around Auckland. 

The cultural links between the diaspora and their home islands are very strong indeed. Many have moved for economic reasons, but kept very close cultural and religious ties. If the NRL stops these teams playing - a possible endpoint in their ever decreasing circles world vision - then a great deal will be lost in terms of diversity and flavour in our game. As it happens, I believe there are enough people who care about the international game to fight for it and for it to be saved in some form from the NRL. It shouldn’t need to be written, but Tonga v NZ and PNG v Samoa matters more than an extra week of off season golf for many of the players, their communities and the game of rugby league (those games also raise money for the IRL which gets passed down to developing RL nations, so there is a clear beneficial trickle down). 

A number of the posters most keen to paint a picture of inevitable isolation on here have, of course, no interest in seeing the game be the best it can be, but the fight will go on. Our game is robust enough and loved enough to find a way to thrive long after V’Landys has finished gold plating his Rolls Royce (brought to you by Foxbet).

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2 hours ago, rlno1 said:

Yes but what about the Tongan and Samoan international teams or do they play in Campbelltown, Penrith and Parramatta.

Playing games in the PI's would be very expensive and wouldn't make a large return. In other words most of the time internationals played in the PI's would make heavy losses, and there's no organisation in RL in a position to eat that cost.

Tonga doesn't even have a stadium with the basic facilities necessary to host games, which would blow costs out even further, especially if you planned to broadcast the games.

Put simply, outside of on the odd occasion playing internationals in most of the PI's simply isn't feasible.

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1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Tonga have had massive crowds in and around Auckland. 

The cultural links between the diaspora and their home islands are very strong indeed. Many have moved for economic reasons, but kept very close cultural and religious ties. If the NRL stops these teams playing - a possible endpoint in their ever decreasing circles world vision - then a great deal will be lost in terms of diversity and flavour in our game. As it happens, I believe there are enough people who care about the international game to fight for it and for it to be saved in some form from the NRL. It shouldn’t need to be written, but Tonga v NZ and PNG v Samoa matters more than an extra week of off season golf for many of the players, their communities and the game of rugby league (those games also raise money for the IRL which gets passed down to developing RL nations, so there is a clear beneficial trickle down). 

A number of the posters most keen to paint a picture of inevitable isolation on here have, of course, no interest in seeing the game be the best it can be, but the fight will go on. Our game is robust enough and loved enough to find a way to thrive long after V’Landys has finished gold plating his Rolls Royce (brought to you by Foxbet).

The NRL aren't killing international RL, in fact it's undeniable that the PI teams that you are talking about (including NZ) would be shells of what they are now if it wasn't for the NRL and NRL clubs.

Your (international RL sycophants) real problem is that the NRL, and the clubs in particular, are ever increasingly less willing to eat the disproportionate hidden costs most international RL events have on them, and considering the game's position in Australia who can blame them.

Find a way to make international RL worth their while and they'll be their with bells on. How you go about that is debateable, but trying to shame them into it isn't the way to go about it, nor will it make any difference, you're just wasting everybody's time.

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31 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Playing games in the PI's would be very expensive and wouldn't make a large return. In other words most of the time internationals played in the PI's would make heavy losses, and there's no organisation in RL in a position to eat that cost.

Tonga doesn't even have a stadium with the basic facilities necessary to host games, which would blow costs out even further, especially if you planned to broadcast the games.

Put simply, outside of on the odd occasion playing internationals in most of the PI's simply isn't feasible.

Which is because with the possible exception of PNG they're too small and too poor (and consequently too insignificant) to add much to International RL, no matter how many of the Brits here see them through rose-coloured glasses.  It's also been pointed out by one of the Aussies on here that their matches lose money even when played in Campbelltown, Penrith and Parramatta which further supports my point.

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1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

Which is because with the possible exception of PNG they're too small and too poor (and consequently too insignificant) to add much to International RL, no matter how many of the Brits here see them through rose-coloured glasses.  It's also been pointed out by one of the Aussies on here that their matches lose money even when played in Campbelltown, Penrith and Parramatta which further supports my point.

No matter how much you keep repeating this doesn't make it true. Any competitive side that can beat Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain adds to international RL

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Just now, Damien said:

No matter how much you keep repeating this doesn't make it true. Any competitive side that can beat Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain adds to international RL

It's done.

Our Australian correspondents have nailed their colours to the "being almost as big in Australia as AFL" mast and that is now the limit of their ambition for the game.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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20 minutes ago, Damien said:

No matter how much you keep repeating this doesn't make it true. Any competitive side that can beat Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain adds to international RL

But he doesn’t care if it’s true or not. He couldn’t name 3 Tonga players without googling it - it’s just the same old “know your place peasants” stuck record. 

Tonga’s diaspora makes them a worthy foe for any rugby team in the world. They bleed red blood for the cause. 

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22 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's done.

Our Australian correspondents have nailed their colours to the "being almost as big in Australia as AFL" mast and that is now the limit of their ambition for the game.

It’s the PNG’s a tiny country nervous tick that always makes me laugh. 

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7 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The NRL aren't killing international RL, in fact it's undeniable that the PI teams that you are talking about (including NZ) would be shells of what they are now if it wasn't for the NRL and NRL clubs.

Your (international RL sycophants) real problem is that the NRL, and the clubs in particular, are ever increasingly less willing to eat the disproportionate hidden costs most international RL events have on them, and considering the game's position in Australia who can blame them.

Find a way to make international RL worth their while and they'll be their with bells on. How you go about that is debateable, but trying to shame them into it isn't the way to go about it, nor will it make any difference, you're just wasting everybody's time.

Deary deary me, quite a lot to unpack there… it’s always difficult for a leaguie to get inside the head of someone whose idea of “fun” is to spend hours trying to put us in our place, but, rather than head over to Victoria Footie . Com and repeatedly ask them how their World Cup is getting on, here we go… 

1. The PI players are great players and athletes because they play our game, the game of rugby league. All Tongans have been fantastically inspired by Taumalolo (he’s one of their top players, GD) playing for Tonga. In front of huge crowds. Likewise the love of PNG for its players knows no bounds. The NRL is the current incarnation of the rugby league club game in Australia, which is successful  because they play our game. They can try their hand at another sport and see how they get on, and the next day we’d have another NRL to answer the demand to play our game. 

2. Nice of you to outline my problem, but unsurprisingly your take is nonsense. The challenge we face as a game is to make sure that our players can play as many internationals as we can stage for them. That requires a number of things, including the will of the players, some coaches and a professional approach to the competitions themselves. The goal will always be there for internationalists because the game - across the world and in all its forms - deserves it. We will shortly be holding 3 world cups over here, with a large number of developing nations playing our game. The Aussies can’t be expected to invest in, say, Brazil’s women’s team or Wales’ wheelchair team, but those teams deserve a stage to show what they can do, and with the money generated by top level competition they can do so. And we will continue to fight for that, because ultimately an approach of “the NRL is all that matters anywhere” deserves to be challenged.

3. I am really struggling to answer the final point. This is a UK based rugby league forum for people who care about the greatest game, and not an AGM for the NRL. It would be good if V’Landys came on here and felt shame, but I doubt it: my money is on this continuing to be a site for mostly UK leaguies. Many of us, happily, being internationalists. 

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14 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I am really struggling to answer the final point. This is a UK based rugby league forum for people who care about the greatest game, and not an AGM for the NRL. It would be good if V’Landys came on here and felt shame, but I doubt it: my money is on this continuing to be a site for mostly UK leaguies. Many of us, happily, being internationalists. 

To be fair I have read a lot of great posts and articles from Australians who are fervent internationalists too. Some have done some great things to develop the game. There have also been some good Australian posters on here that post very well on the international and wider game too. Many of the Australians on here were just as critical of what the NRL did last year for instance. Unfortunately they post all too irregularly on here and we instead get a more narrow viewpoint that will always seek to defend the indefensible when it comes to the NRL.

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15 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

1. The PI players are great players and athletes because they play our game, the game of rugby league. The NRL is the current incarnation of the rugby league club game in Australia, which is successful  because they play our game. They can try their hand at another sport and see how they get on, and the next day we’d have another NRL to answer the demand to play our game. 

The name "Rugby League" was first coined by the founders of the New South Wales Rugby Football League in 1907. We were still playing as the Northern Rugby Football Union until 1922.

Many on this forum still refer to Rugby League as "Rugby".

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One mid-season rep weekend will make little difference to the health of international RL. Particularly when it inevitably gets entangled with SOO at that time of year.

October/November offers the best chance to maximize attention on internationals. The main problem is of repeating the pattern of the 2017 WC. In NZ, there`s less competition from RU and the weather is more propitious than in June. Games played in PNG should also be successful.

In Oz however, there`s a tendency to mentally draw a line under the year after the NRL GF. This applies to players, but more importantly also to media and fans.

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Thinking about it a little more I just don't get the derogatory comments towards PNG and the PI nations. When I look back to the 2017 World Cup the absolute highlights were watching the games in PNG, in front of packed crowds and in a fervent atmosphere, and the games involving Tonga, again in front of packed crowds and unbelievable atmospheres. The war dances were a sight to behold but the one in the match featuring Tonga and Samoa was unbelievable. Then you have the Fijian hymns and tears which are just beautiful. Every one of these so called poor countries added something special and added much needed variety to what would have been quite a bland tournament and without them it would have been a flop played in half empty stadiums.

This is what made the last World Cup and this is what makes international RL so special. They add so much. Without these countries international RL would just be a series of 3 nations tournaments and a lot more boring.

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19 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

Playing games in the PI's would be very expensive and wouldn't make a large return. In other words most of the time internationals played in the PI's would make heavy losses, and there's no organisation in RL in a position to eat that cost.

Tonga doesn't even have a stadium with the basic facilities necessary to host games, which would blow costs out even further, especially if you planned to broadcast the games.

Put simply, outside of on the odd occasion playing internationals in most of the PI's simply isn't feasible.

Is there proof of that, with our new partners surely we can find sponsors. It is more about goodwill then profit.

Otherwise we will never do anything.

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21 hours ago, The Great Dane said:

The NRL aren't killing international RL, in fact it's undeniable that the PI teams that you are talking about (including NZ) would be shells of what they are now if it wasn't for the NRL and NRL clubs.

Your (international RL sycophants) real problem is that the NRL, and the clubs in particular, are ever increasingly less willing to eat the disproportionate hidden costs most international RL events have on them, and considering the game's position in Australia who can blame them.

Find a way to make international RL worth their while and they'll be their with bells on. How you go about that is debateable, but trying to shame them into it isn't the way to go about it, nor will it make any difference, you're just wasting everybody's time.

I guess the NRL are consistent they won't waste money on Perth and Adelaide club teams either.

Do you support that stance also?

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6 hours ago, Damien said:

Thinking about it a little more I just don't get the derogatory comments towards PNG and the PI nations. When I look back to the 2017 World Cup the absolute highlights were watching the games in PNG, in front of packed crowds and in a fervent atmosphere, and the games involving Tonga, again in front of packed crowds and unbelievable atmospheres. The war dances were a sight to behold but the one in the match featuring Tonga and Samoa was unbelievable. Then you have the Fijian hymns and tears which are just beautiful. Every one of these so called poor countries added something special and added much needed variety to what would have been quite a bland tournament and without them it would have been a flop played in half empty stadiums.

This is what made the last World Cup and this is what makes international RL so special. They add so much. Without these countries international RL would just be a series of 3 nations tournaments and a lot more boring.

My comments were mainly about the PI nations rather than PNG.  Unfortunately you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Yes those small nations' teams can get good crowds and create a great atmosphere, in New Zealand where in the case of Tonga and Samoa at least there's a big diaspora from those countries.  Whether that can happen anywhere else in the world is seriously open to question, but the fact that it apparently does not happen when those same teams play in the suburbs of Sydney suggests strongly that it can't.  What happened in 2017 was a one off occurrence which almost certainly will not be repeated in England later this year, nor anywhere else but in New Zealand.

That's why the idea that their rise through the ranks will somehow lift the sport's profile and stature is mistaken.

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10 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

My comments were mainly about the PI nations rather than PNG.  Unfortunately you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Yes those small nations' teams can get good crowds and create a great atmosphere, in New Zealand where in the case of Tonga and Samoa at least there's a big diaspora from those countries.  Whether that can happen anywhere else in the world is seriously open to question, but the fact that it apparently does not happen when those same teams play in the suburbs of Sydney suggests strongly that it can't.  What happened in 2017 was a one off occurrence which almost certainly will not be repeated in England later this year, nor anywhere else but in New Zealand.

That's why the idea that their rise through the ranks will somehow lift the sport's profile and stature is mistaken.

I mean you did say PNG and talk about tiny 3rd world countries but it doesn't matter as I'm not having a circular argument, you've already said all this or words to this affect. If you dont think competitive World Cups and internationals and great occasions raise the stature of the sport then that's up to you. The majority on here seem to disagree and enjoy watching these countries.

Again though this is not a binary choice. Its not these countries preventing the likes of USA, China and Russia being competitive and/or beating tier 1 sides. The sport does not have stacks of top international nations just waiting to step in. Its these PI countries playing and being competitive or we have World Cups closer to what we had in the past. I know which I'd prefer.

It is also obviously doing something for the stature when the UK Government gave unprecedented levels of funding for the 2021 World Cup and France are set to get a 60 million budget for 2025. Pretty good growth on the back of increasingly competitive World Cups and the rise of the PI nations I'd say.

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31 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

On the contrary I want the sport to grow out of its box, but I'm not naive enough to think that it can do that on the back of tiny island countries.  Re PNG, I see that in the UN's ranking by population it sits between Austria and Serbia, two other countries one hardly ever sees near the top of any major sport.

How big is NZ?, they have a team at the top of a major sport and compete well in others. 

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The NRL aren`t the only ones guilty of mealy-mouthed opportunism. The RFL are set to make a decision on the return of scrums at the end of January. They`ve yet to give a plausible account of why a scrum is more likely to spread Covid than a 3-man tackle.

If last year the RFL had directly asked the NRL why the Aussies and Kiwis had declined to participate in the RLWC, a candid reply could have been - due to the same spurious "player welfare concerns" you played a whole season without scrums.

The way things are going, this could all still be relevant in late 2022. And if the tournament doesn`t happen this year, all bets are off for international RL.

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