Harry Stottle Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Tommygilf said: Probably, yes. But probably no TV company wanting anything at the rate of broadcasting 1 team every two weeks when they are at home and are at risk of relegation every year meaning they don't want a long term commitment to Super League. So no then, what is your solution to the conundrum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Just now, Harry Stottle said: So no then, what is your solution to the conundrum? That's incorrect. Yes there is an audience, no there isn't a broadcaster. You know my solution, make Super League European as it was supposed to be, and keep the Championship and League 1 for the England/UK. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: That's incorrect. Yes there is an audience, no there isn't a broadcaster. You know my solution, make Super League European as it was supposed to be, and keep the Championship and League 1 for the England/UK. Define European please, other than having two French teams participating in it, and c'mon Tommy you are astute enough to know that the SLE branding was just a name and not an intension. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireBull Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said: Yes I did read it Salop that is why I stated that those who invest in RL are in the main local lads who have a lifelong connection with their club and have done good financially , it is the same with Catalan. Tell me the last "New Club" out of all those away from the heartlands over here who have really excelled and still prosper in the game, I think it is a nice round figure 0, and I suspect that will be the same in France in a niche sport like RL simply because there is very little return on investment, even money men like Mr Leneghan and Mr Hughes steeped in the game who tried it away from the heartlands failed, go on then suggest some cities in France where it could work, and don't forget to take into consideration places were other sports are already entrenched, like over here with Sheffield, Coventry, Oxford, Gloucester, Nottingham, Mansfield should I go on? France isnt the UK. The UK failures like London do so because of a lack of infrastructure, not because a club cant work. Newcastle are not failing. I see you just ignored the fact they wouldnt have to spend millions on travel . Those who invest,'now' are obviously not who we are targeting in the future. Areas that could hold a SL in France? Well Avignon already exist, population is 100,000 and the Arrondissement of Avignon is 200000. There is a suitable stadium which France got a capacity crowd vs England six years ago. A new market if done properly could be Montpellier. If the sport cant grow to create international opponents for England to play, the sport is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Define European please, other than having two French teams participating in it, and c'mon Tommy you are astute enough to know that the SLE branding was just a name and not an intension. What else would you propose calling a competition across England, France and Wales? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omott91 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Omott91 said: If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony. Point in case about people in glass houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: France isnt the UK. The UK failures like London do so because of a lack of infrastructure, not because a club cant work. Newcastle are not failing. I see you just ignored the fact they wouldnt have to spend millions on travel . Those who invest,'now' are obviously not who we are targeting in the future. Areas that could hold a SL in France? Well Avignon already exist, population is 100,000 and the Arrondissement of Avignon is 200000. There is a suitable stadium which France got a capacity crowd vs England six years ago. A new market if done properly could be Montpellier. If the sport cant grow to create international opponents for England to play, the sport is dead. Our discussion began with your suggestion that Elite 1 Should be an equal measure of the Championship, considering that Elite 1 has not moved on very much in a number of years both on and off the field, why would new investors wish to join that League as a pathway to SL, the only way they will be enticed into the game is to be fast tracked straight into SL, something I don't expect the SL hierarchy would even contemplate doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnM Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Omott91 said: If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony. Not sure I agree with that. Leigh has a lot of potential, al lot to contribute. Beaumont's financial contribution and personal drive has achieved a lot in my view. I don't think, though, that his er.....er....heart-on-sleeve lack of diplomacy and subtlety is enough to take the club onwards and upwards to SuperLeague sustainability. 3 eiπ + 1 = 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: What else would you propose calling a competition across England, France and Wales? Yes that is what I said Tommy a name, not as you suggest "make Super League European as it was supposed to be" was that really the intention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 12 minutes ago, Omott91 said: If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony. I don't think to be fair we should get into ranking individual clubs, that sort of misses the point, his challenge is whether the UK game should be routing money from UK broadcasters and sponsors to Canada and France. It is a fair question. What exactly is the business case? My personal view is that we don't fully understand the potential benefits because we have had a lack of strategy and approach to it. But we are in a place where Catalans have had two trips to Wembley, one Grand Final, a Cup win and an LLS, a record crowd in Barca and so on - but broadcasters there are still not interested in spending a penny on it. On the flip side, if we are going to look at positives, I'm not sure the World Cup would be in France without Catalans. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 14 minutes ago, Omott91 said: If we were to start judging clubs worth and value, Leigh would rate below the French clubs. The irony. I didn't want Leigh to get that spot in SL as I stated umpteen times on these pages, I wanted Toulouse to get the nod, in my opinion (others my differ) they would have suffered the same fate as Leigh did, how would you estimate their worth and value had that happened? I suppose we will find out come the end of this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Yes that is what I said Tommy a name, not as you suggest "make Super League European as it was supposed to be" was that really the intention? I really don't see how calling the competition European is that controversial to you? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShropshireBull Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: Our discussion began with your suggestion that Elite 1 Should be an equal measure of the Championship, considering that Elite 1 has not moved on very much in a number of years both on and off the field, why would new investors wish to join that League as a pathway to SL, the only way they will be enticed into the game is to be fast tracked straight into SL, something I don't expect the SL hierarchy would even contemplate doing. No it began with someone else saying that not having Cat and Toulouse in French div hurts French rugby league. I then suggested if the concern was genuine you would offer a path for French teams to get to SL without needing to spunk millions in travel to lower league comps. You then joined in. And now you are close to a bad faith arguement with Élite 1 hasnt developed much in the same way people say Welsh RL hasnt devloped. To which the obvious answer is :Well why would it? Why would you invest in a product that cannot reach the top level, that would be pointless. Its the pathway that attracts the investor, not the other way around. They would join it for the same point I have made several times (no absurd travel costs) and the barriers to entry are low. Of course SL wont be in favour but it was a hypothetical discussion on a discussion forum. Again, just say 'SB, I just dont have your belief/delusion about the game's ability to grow and I believe our aim should be what we have we hold' I am going to leave it there and you keep asking the same questions. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowdesert Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, Dave T said: I don't think to be fair we should get into ranking individual clubs, that sort of misses the point, his challenge is whether the UK game should be routing money from UK broadcasters and sponsors to Canada and France. It is a fair question. What exactly is the business case? My personal view is that we don't fully understand the potential benefits because we have had a lack of strategy and approach to it. But we are in a place where Catalans have had two trips to Wembley, one Grand Final, a Cup win and an LLS, a record crowd in Barca and so on - but broadcasters there are still not interested in spending a penny on it. On the flip side, if we are going to look at positives, I'm not sure the World Cup would be in France without Catalans. Do you think the new commercial entity that is planned will look at this? If there’s something that could be developed or needs to be culled, it will be easy to spot for outside analysts coming in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 31 minutes ago, Dave T said: But we are in a place where Catalans have had two trips to Wembley, one Grand Final, a Cup win and an LLS, a record crowd in Barca and so on - but broadcasters there are still not interested in spending a penny on it. So as a buisness decision, the French broadcasters I believe would not have come to a decision to invest or otherwise in RL in France did so on the toss of a coin, they would have done a costing and return on investment excersize and decided it would not be in their best interest to pursue the matter further, would locking the French clubs into SL make any difference I don't know, but I don't believe we should go down that path not in a competitive structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 34 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: I really don't see how calling the competition European is that controversial to you? I am not saying it is controversial at all, I am saying you are wrong in thinking that it was going to be a stand alone competition away from the rest of the British game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: I am not saying it is controversial at all, I am saying you are wrong in thinking that it was going to be a stand alone competition away from the rest of the British game. Why would it be away from the rest of the British game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 47 minutes ago, Lowdesert said: Do you think the new commercial entity that is planned will look at this? If there’s something that could be developed or needs to be culled, it will be easy to spot for outside analysts coming in. I hope so, I'd be stunned if a 3rd party didn't look at how we embed French teams into the structure. Or even if we should do. If they don't consider this, it would suggest they aren't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: So as a buisness decision, the French broadcasters I believe would not have come to a decision to invest or otherwise in RL in France did so on the toss of a coin, they would have done a costing and return on investment excersize and decided it would not be in their best interest to pursue the matter further, would locking the French clubs into SL make any difference I don't know, but I don't believe we should go down that path not in a competitive structure. Yes. I think this is ultimately the elephant in the room. Are the viewing and advertising numbers so low that we can't even get a million euro a year from a French broadcaster for example? At what point is a paying deal going to happen? Is it 2 teams, is it 6 teams, or are numbers so low that it could be a whole French conference and the value would still be negligible. This is the question that needs to be answered. What is the current value (zero, but with the caveat that we haven't set ourselves up well), and what is the potential value and in what time frame. If there is no potential value, then it does rather bring us back to the question about vanity projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 23 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: I am not saying it is controversial at all, I am saying you are wrong in thinking that it was going to be a stand alone competition away from the rest of the British game. 5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Why would it be away from the rest of the British game? I feel I should point out that the competition has never officially been called the European Super League. The trading name is Super League (Europe) Ltd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Dave T said: I feel I should point out that the competition has never officially been called the European Super League. The trading name is Super League (Europe) Ltd. Indeed, going forward I think it should be made European Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Just now, Tommygilf said: Indeed, going forward I think it should be made European I think an actual documented strategy is needed. Toronto isn't in Europe, so we need to work out what the approach really is. I'm not sure we need a territory attached to the comp name, most don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Just now, Dave T said: I think an actual documented strategy is needed. Toronto isn't in Europe, so we need to work out what the approach really is. I'm not sure we need a territory attached to the comp name, most don't. They don't, although they are usually referred to by their nation: English Premier League for example. I think the total lack of direction and vision is the key issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 minute ago, Tommygilf said: They don't, although they are usually referred to by their nation: English Premier League for example. I think the total lack of direction and vision is the key issue. I think that's fine abroad - the English Premier League isn't a thing here, or on anything official. The Aussie media may refer to our comp as European SL (or English SL) which is the same thing. I'm not against us branding as ESL, but not if it is just another logo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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