Warrington solution

[Dallas Mead]

Wire fans, please take the rose tinted spectacles off. We’ve been pretenders since 2013, we’ve made 2 grand finals since then incredibly but I didn’t fancy us in either of those games in truth. I go on (and on) about KissKamKarl but seriously, look at the last 5/6 years in terms of recruitment and retention and it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. Terrible. He’s got to be ultimately accountable for that, he doesn’t pick the team or run the training sessions but he’s accountable for coaches and players getting hired. He’s got to go as part of any shake up, the man is an absolute joker and the epitome of “jobs for the boys”. Start there, back Powell and see where we go….

[ELBOWSEYE]

28 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

Wire fans, please take the rose tinted spectacles off. We’ve been pretenders since 2013, we’ve made 2 grand finals since then incredibly but I didn’t fancy us in either of those games in truth. I go on (and on) about KissKamKarl but seriously, look at the last 5/6 years in terms of recruitment and retention and it would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad. Terrible. He’s got to be ultimately accountable for that, he doesn’t pick the team or run the training sessions but he’s accountable for coaches and players getting hired. He’s got to go as part of any shake up, the man is an absolute joker and the epitome of “jobs for the boys”. Start there, back Powell and see where we go….

I not seen any wire fans with rose coloured glasses, but to hang your future plan and getting rid of CEO is just crazy. And if you think he's anything other than a mouth piece for the financial backers you give him too much credit. The club needed a major overall years ago but stuck with Price who got to a few finals and bored saints to death to win one but in reality was papering over the cracks. Now it will take a couple of seasons at least to turn it round so just grin and bear it. 

[Dallas Mead]

55 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

I not seen any wire fans with rose coloured glasses, but to hang your future plan and getting rid of CEO is just crazy. And if you think he's anything other than a mouth piece for the financial backers you give him too much credit. The club needed a major overall years ago but stuck with Price who got to a few finals and bored saints to death to win one but in reality was papering over the cracks. Now it will take a couple of seasons at least to turn it round so just grin and bear it. 

Change the CEO and change the club.

[ELBOWSEYE]

6 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

Change the CEO and change the club.

To what name

[Dallas Mead]

38 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

To what name

The Warrington Wanderers. 

[meast]

50 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

Change the CEO and change the club.

This seems to be similar to what happened with Huddersfield.

The CEO became the scapegoat for poor results, but never got any credit when things picked up.

He was the one who opted for a complete reset of the playing side of things and he was the one who targeted Watto, he was the one who convinced Watto that Huddersfield needed him.

And yet, still no praise for him, it seems the fans are always happy to slaughter the MD when things aren't going well, but completely forget they exist when they do.

I suspect the issue(s) at Warrington are the same as we had at Huddersfield, notably, the players, or some of them.

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 minutes ago, meast said:

This seems to be similar to what happened with Huddersfield.

The CEO became the scapegoat for poor results, but never got any credit when things picked up.

He was the one who opted for a complete reset of the playing side of things and he was the one who targeted Watto, he was the one who convinced Watto that Huddersfield needed him.

And yet, still no praise for him, it seems the fans are always happy to slaughter the MD when things aren't going well, but completely forget they exist when they do.

I suspect the issue(s) at Warrington are the same as we had at Huddersfield, notably, the players, or some of them.

You couldn't be more right if you tried, yes we need a scapegoat CEO is the man

[Dallas Mead]

#KissKamOut

[Tommygilf]

As a Chairman, CEO, Director of Rugby etc. sometimes the most you can really hope for is to not be hated by your own fans. They aren't positions that lend themselves to being beloved. Mistakes are painfully obvious, and good choices are often able to be put down to others too.

[Barry Badrinath]

9 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

#KissKamOut

Err,  kiss cam? What the hell are you on about? 

[Desert Skipper]

11 hours ago, Dallas Mead said:

The Warrington Wonderers  

Typo corrected.

[Dallas Mead]

1 hour ago, Desert Skipper said:

Typo corrected.

That’s better

[Dave T]

I've been critical of him and the club this year, but I do worry that the Directors have told him to reign the off field stuff in a lot to cut costs which is a concern. I don't believe that he has suddenly decided that promoting the club and matches is not worth it. 

On the field I am more forgiving of him. Sure, some of the signings haven't worked, although I think some of the criticisms are a bit all over the place - focusing on the likes of Williams when a team like Leeds are walking 40 points in at your home ground is misguided imo. 

But the players we do have should be performing better than we are, we've signed England's two halves, we've signed a top coach, we've invested in youth, we've shown we'll invest in top talent, sometimes it just doesn't work out. 

The current performances for me fall on the coaching team. We've gone from 3rd to relegation battle and that is on the coaching and playing staff. Changing a style/culture etc is fine, but it is a skill to change it from A to B, and it's clear they haven't done it well at all. Nobody gets a free pass here. 

My ultinate view is that the people in charge can do a job and they need to turn it round. 

 

[Dallas Mead]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I've been critical of him and the club this year, but I do worry that the Directors have told him to reign the off field stuff in a lot to cut costs which is a concern. I don't believe that he has suddenly decided that promoting the club and matches is not worth it. 

On the field I am more forgiving of him. Sure, some of the signings haven't worked, although I think some of the criticisms are a bit all over the place - focusing on the likes of Williams when a team like Leeds are walking 40 points in at your home ground is misguided imo. 

But the players we do have should be performing better than we are, we've signed England's two halves, we've signed a top coach, we've invested in youth, we've shown we'll invest in top talent, sometimes it just doesn't work out. 

The current performances for me fall on the coaching team. We've gone from 3rd to relegation battle and that is on the coaching and playing staff. Changing a style/culture etc is fine, but it is a skill to change it from A to B, and it's clear they haven't done it well at all. Nobody gets a free pass here. 

My ultinate view is that the people in charge can do a job and they need to turn it round. 

 

Steve Price - a poor signing as coach by most measures and in the opinion of most fans.

Latu - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Inglis - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Burrell - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Williams - marquee player, did we really need a(nother) marquee halfback given the GLARING deficiencies in the pack?

 

If the CEO of the company hasn’t had a major part to play in the failings above then (a) what IS he doing and (b) who has?  Simon?  Stuart?  Bob the kit man?

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said:

Steve Price - a poor signing as coach by most measures and in the opinion of most fans.

Latu - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Inglis - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Burrell - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Williams - marquee player, did we really need a(nother) marquee halfback given the GLARING deficiencies in the pack?

 

If the CEO of the company hasn’t had a major part to play in the failings above then (a) what IS he doing and (b) who has?  Simon?  Stuart?  Bob the kit man?

I think you never quite know how a new head coach is going to go. There are so many variables at play so I think it's fair to give Warrington a bye ball on Price. Australian coaches just seem to fit in and do a great job or are a flop, there is little middle ground. Same with Powell, he's done a great job, overachieving in many respects, at Cas so it wasn't a daft appointment by any means and of course it may all still come good.

The signing of Inglis was just ridiculous. The only people who didn't think so was Warrington fans trying to justify it. Burrell was a punt that just didn't come off and cap wise didn't cost much.

For me when Warrington were a real force they had a really formidable pack with plenty of size. They also had plenty of stars and quality players. They are obviously a team in transition but it's hard to see where the money is being spent at the moment, beyond Widdop and Williams, and there must be a lot a average underpeforming players getting good money.

[GUBRATS]

Squad age too old , simple as 

[Agbrigg]

Chuffin moaning wire fans, a poor season and you think its the end of the world. Just be thanfull you dont have to suffer the same pain as us Wakey supporters  

[Tommygilf]

36 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Squad age too old , simple as 

The average age of the top 25 players, numbers 1-24 and 27 (is there a reason for no 25 and 26 Warrington fans?) is 26.72 years old... positively ancient from my perspective maybe.

But lets not let actual facts beat a "simple as"

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The average age of the top 25 players, numbers 1-24 and 27 (is there a reason for no 25 and 26 Warrington fans?) is 26.72 years old... positively ancient from my perspective maybe.

But lets not let actual facts beat a "simple as"

For reference, St Helens' average over the same squad numbers is 26.04 years of age.

The 0.68 advantage they have must be why they are ace, simple as.

[GUBRATS]

17 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

For reference, St Helens' average over the same squad numbers is 26.04 years of age.

The 0.68 advantage they have must be why they are ace, simple as.

My mistake , just looking at the principle players 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

My mistake , just looking at the principle players 

I think the obvious problem at Warrington, and one they are trying to address with recruits for next season, is that their pack can't lay a platform for them going forwards. That doesn't change if their key players are all 5 years younger imo.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Squad age too old , simple as 

Im not sure how true that is, but I think some of it is the retirement and moving on of a certain style of player. Westwood has never been replaced, BMM was never replaced, Price clearly valued the likes of Jason Clarke and Jack Hughes and has even ruined Ben Currie to be just another workhorse. 

The drop off in Ratchford has been alarming, but offset somewhat by other players, but he's probably the only one I see struggling due to age. Widdopp could maybe be wrapped into that, but he is hard working and pacey as ever, I'm just not so sure he is as good as some think he is. 

I think ultimately, we just haven't clicked. We've seen it at Leeds, who have a far better conveyor belt than us, sometimes the pieces you have lined up don't work. But that's part of the fun of sport and squad management. 

 

[Chris22]

Warrington have won one major trophy in 10 years despite huge investment. They have bombed out in the play offs for the last 3 years at the first attempt, at home, to lower ranked opposition. The issues go beyond the coach for me. The finger of blame should be pointed at a group of players who consistently underachieve and do not justify the relatively high salaries paid.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Dallas Mead said:

Steve Price - a poor signing as coach by most measures and in the opinion of most fans.

Latu - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Inglis - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Burrell - signed over the head of the coach clearly, as he never played him.

Williams - marquee player, did we really need a(nother) marquee halfback given the GLARING deficiencies in the pack?

 

If the CEO of the company hasn’t had a major part to play in the failings above then (a) what IS he doing and (b) who has?  Simon?  Stuart?  Bob the kit man?

I've made my feelings known on Price, but I dont think he can be classed as a poor signing. He is an experienced NRL coach and could get results. My problem with him is that his style could send a glass eye to sleep and we are in the entertainments business. 

Williams is a fine signing. He isn't going to carry a team, but no scrum halves do when the forwards are as weak as they are. If we fix the forwards we'll see the real Williams. People like to knock him, but he was very good at Wigan, did well in the NRL and I expect he will do well in his career at Warrington. 

If you are going to criticise all failures as a reason for KK to go you do have to balance it with the other signings. 

We always need to beware of rewriting history somewhat, it's interesting the descriptions of Widdopp being described as an out and out flop by pundits, when he was shortlisted for MoS last year. 

[Dave T]

18 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Warrington have won one major trophy in 10 years despite huge investment. They have bombed out in the play offs for the last 3 years at the first attempt, at home, to lower ranked opposition. The issues go beyond the coach for me. The finger of blame should be pointed at a group of players who consistently underachieve and do not justify the relatively high salaries paid.

But the players from 10 years ago are not the same as 6 years ago, or 2 years ago. 

The trophy haul is a poor return, no doubt, but my view is that if there were real fundamental issues we wouldn't have been playing in 3 Grand Finals and 3 Cup Finals, winning one of them, and losing the others in classic finals. In reality, many of those losses could have been wins - Houghton's wonder tackle on Currie was nothibg to do with fundamental issues. 

Sometimes I think we overthink it, we've made 6 finals of 20 in the last decade. The failing has been minor turning points in games of Rugby.