Relegation/Relègation 2022

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It will be so much better if Warrington get dragged into it.

@Dave Tperhaps the wrong use of words, should have said so much more interesting if Warrington get dragged into it, a three way battle would create so much more intrigue. You can see the interest on these pages now in the effort to avoid jeopardy for the teams involved, a big player like Wire joining the fray would step it up a notch or two.

[Scubby]

20 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It is the league system we play in Scubby there is the scramble for the top and the will to avoid jeopardy at the bottom it will create interest by all manner of supporters from teams not only involved but for those from other clubs, and even those fans who don't have a team they follow!

And by the way, I would sooner my team be involved in as you put it "The car crash of relegation" where I attend games knowing that the result matters, not just two teams going through the motions to get 80 minutes over with.

But you will be in the minority. Wakefield's crowds will likely go into freefall over the next few weeks. 

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Oxford said:

The jeopardy being dramatic is why there is a thread. It is also not dramatic but worrying and depressing when you're in the mix. These two things are not the same and we need to stop confusing one with the other.

The jeopardy of relegation is not good for the game and no amount of support will make that any different.

Drama like THE drop goal are because of RL the game itself, our sport.

 

Totally 100% disagree Oxy, I absolutely loved the 8's and my team has suffered both the agony and the ecstacy, I also would not have any other concept than P&R, especially not the petering out of a season with nothing to play for, it is a competition which should be rewarded or suffer the consequences, I wouldn't go to games if the result meant nowt.

[Tommygilf]

22 minutes ago, Oxford said:

The jeopardy being dramatic is why there is a thread. It is also not dramatic but worrying and depressing when you're in the mix. These two things are not the same and we need to stop confusing one with the other.

The jeopardy of relegation is not good for the game and no amount of support will make that any different.

Drama like THE drop goal are because of RL the game itself, our sport.

Its possible for RL to be not big enough to sustain relegation and for Relegation to provide drama.

O'Brien's drop goal was dramatic, but we wouldn't still be going on about it now without the massive additional context of the relegation fight.

[crashmon]

Personally because of the Gap between SL and Championship I don't think we should have relegation,  even Union and Cricket are struggling with Relegation and talking about scrapping it, and both are bigger than League is.

I don't have solutions, but I agree that if Wakey get relegated they will struggle more that Tolouse would in the championship. 

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

@Dave Tperhaps the wrong use of words, should have said so much more interesting if Warrington get dragged into it, a three way battle would create so much more intrigue. You can see the interest on these pages now in the effort to avoid jeopardy for the teams involved, a big player like Wire joining the fray would step it up a notch or two.

My response was light-hearted mate - I have no issues with people wanting my team to lose - it's sport. No offence taken at all Harry.

[Oxford]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its possible for RL to be not big enough to sustain relegation and for Relegation to provide drama.

O'Brien's drop goal was dramatic, but we wouldn't still be going on about it now without the massive additional context of the relegation fight.

I think that's what I said though my emphasis was on the damage done not the needle. Music reference

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Oxford said:

I think that's what I said though my emphasis was on the damage done not the needle. Music reference

To take another reference, relegation is Golden Brown for some it seems.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

My response was light-hearted mate - I have no issues with people wanting my team to lose - it's sport. No offence taken at all Harry.

Those are the two words (in bold) that should be taken on board by all those who want competition as in jeorpdy replacing for passive fixtures, it is no longer sport as in the competitive nature it should be.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Those are the two words (in bold) that should be taken on board by all those who want competition as in jeorpdy replacing for passive fixtures, it is no longer sport as in the competitive nature it should be.

When you have leagues decided essentially by who pays the most, its unsurprising when people start to doubt the "sporting" nature of things...

[David Shepherd]

I hope Toulouse stay up for the good of the wider game.

From a selfish point of view, a genuine humdinger of a derby next year for Fev will be great entertainment and I'll have a chance of finally putting the trauma of the 1998 promotion play off behind me.

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, Scubby said:

But you will be in the minority. Wakefield's crowds will likely go into freefall over the next few weeks. 

How do you think their crowds would be if there was no relegation?

Catalans finished last in 2010 with no relegation. They averaged 6.6k,  1500 lower than the seasons either side of that car crash year. 

Highlighting that crowds drop when teams are losing is hardly the zinger you may think it is.

[Jughead]

Oh, look, another promotion/relegation structuring debate, just what we need on a Monday morning. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

How do you think their crowds would be if there was no relegation?

Catalans finished last in 2010 with no relegation. They averaged 6.6k,  1500 lower than the seasons either side of that car crash year. 

Highlighting that crowds drop when teams are losing is hardly the zinger you may think it is.

Averages still increase however, as they rarely suffer the hammer blow to their numbers of relegation.

[Oxford]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

To take another reference, relegation is Golden Brown for some it seems.

Certainly Brown would seem to be the dominant colour.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Averages still increase however, as they rarely suffer the hammer blow to their numbers of relegation.

I'm afraid you'd need to provide more hard evidence than that, including taking into consideration the reduction (if there is one) in the lower division where a ceiling is applied.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

How do you think their crowds would be if there was no relegation?

Catalans finished last in 2010 with no relegation. They averaged 6.6k,  1500 lower than the seasons either side of that car crash year. 

Highlighting that crowds drop when teams are losing is hardly the zinger you may think it is.

It's not just about the crowds Dave. I spent the weekend back home and the mood is grim.

For example, West Tigers and Bulldogs are #### at the moment but they are announcing new coaching appointments, new signings and making big plans for 2023. Wakefield are simply holding their breath while a few players are already deserting the ship. Crossing their fingers they can put off the inevitable for another year. How do you promote the club on that?

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

When you have leagues decided essentially by who pays the most, its unsurprising when people start to doubt the "sporting" nature of things...

Does that not happen and to a much bigger degree in your other favourite sport Football, there is a club 12 miles down the road from me who where also rans untill some Arabs and their bulging wallets descended on Manchester City now they are the biggest in the comp, like wise at the bottom of the Prem you had Burnley most probably the poorest, as in RL there are divisions within divisions who compete against each other for the spoils or the jeapordy, and that is reflected in all professional sport everywhere, but every now and then a stick is shoved in the spokes like Your Team and Warrington there is no way both of these clubs should be bottom 4 clubs as the both have in recent times.

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Oh, look, another promotion/relegation structuring debate, just what we need on a Monday morning. 

If you start a thread about relegation, it is going to gravitate to P&R.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It's not just about the crowds Dave. I spent the weekend back home and the mood is grim.

For example, West Tigers and Bulldogs are #### at the moment but they are announcing new coaching appointments, new signings and making big plans for 2023. Wakefield are simply holding their breath while a few players are already deserting the ship. Crossing their fingers they can put off the inevitable for another year. How do you promote the club on that?

I understand and I don't disagree - but maybe stop using crowds as the measure and we won't keep having these discussions.

It's a perfectly reasonable position to hold that P&R and the uncertainty it creates leads to short-termism, bad decisions and prevents clubs being the best version of themselves.

Because in reality, there is no zinger to be had here, this is going to be a debate on preferences ultimately.

[Harry Stottle]

8 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Certainly Brown would seem to be the dominant colour.

Especially for fans frightened of the prospect of jeapordy.

[Scubby]

Just now, Dave T said:

I understand and I don't disagree - but maybe stop using crowds as the measure and we won't keep having these discussions.

It's a perfectly reasonable position to hold that P&R and the uncertainty it creates leads to short-termism, bad decisions and prevents clubs being the best version of themselves.

Because in reality, there is no zinger to be had here, this is going to be a debate on preferences ultimately.

But crowds are a counter to arguments that relegation scraps are exciting. Sky don't look to televise many relegation games until the very last game. And if fans of those clubs involved were turned on by it they would rally around their club and swell the attendances? 

[Scubby]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

Question is how would that be any different if Wakey were near the bottom with no chance of playoffs or relegation. 

There's just as little if not less incentive to go to watch them and sky dont get any meaningful fixtures.  

As I said, you cannot pitch things will be better going forward if the reality is most of the squad is likely to #### off or get binned and they will be part time next year?

In Trinity's case, how the hell do you create a campaign around brand new facilities, better things in 2023 when the outlook on and off the field for the club is so grim.

[Jughead]

16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If you start a thread about relegation, it is going to gravitate to P&R.

It is if people drag it that way. It’s about the remaining eight games for both teams, not whether we should have P&R. 

[RP London]

26 minutes ago, Scubby said:

It's not just about the crowds Dave. I spent the weekend back home and the mood is grim.

and is this different to normal when you're home for the weekend? and is it less grim when you are not home? just trying to find the common denominator