How many foreign players permitted in a SL team?

[The Daddy]

This is a really bad confession but I don't have any understanding of what the foreign quota rules are for SL. How many players can a team have that are non EU?

Is there anywhere online that explains the rules? I read somewhere today that if Leigh get promoted they would have to offload some of their foreign players.

[bobbruce]

7 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

This is a really bad confession but I don't have any understanding of what the foreign quota rules are for SL. How many players can a team have that are non EU?

Is there anywhere online that explains the rules? I read somewhere today that if Leigh get promoted they would have to offload some of their foreign players.

Think in SL teams are allowed 7 non federation trained (spent 3 years in ERL before 21). Don’t think championship or league one have a quota. 

[Derwent]

SL clubs are allowed 7. Leigh currently have 15.

But it’s not as simple as “foreign” players, it’s where they were developed hence the fed and non-fed classification. For example, Gareth Widdop is English born and plays for England but is classed as being one of the 7 quota players as he wasn’t developed as a junior by a British club. Same would apply if say Wigan signed Herbie Farnworth, he’d take up one of their quota spots despite being English.

[Davo5]

20 minutes ago, Derwent said:

SL clubs are allowed 7. Leigh currently have 15.

But it’s not as simple as “foreign” players, it’s where they were developed hence the fed and non-fed classification. For example, Gareth Widdop is English born and plays for England but is classed as being one of the 7 quota players as he wasn’t developed as a junior by a British club. Same would apply if say Wigan signed Herbie Farnworth, he’d take up one of their quota spots despite being English.

You sure about that,didn’t both play at amateur clubs here when growing up.

[The Daddy]

If a player is Australian but has a EU or UK passport do they count on the quota?

[The Daddy]

47 minutes ago, Derwent said:

SL clubs are allowed 7. Leigh currently have 15.

But it’s not as simple as “foreign” players, it’s where they were developed hence the fed and non-fed classification. For example, Gareth Widdop is English born and plays for England but is classed as being one of the 7 quota players as he wasn’t developed as a junior by a British club. Same would apply if say Wigan signed Herbie Farnworth, he’d take up one of their quota spots despite being English.

15 non federation players at Leigh is alot. Wondering how they're going to reduce it and who they keep if they get promoted 

[Leyther_Matt]

39 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

You sure about that,didn’t both play at amateur clubs here when growing up.

I don’t necessarily agree with it as I feel it should really be linked to international eligibility, but I think it relates to their first professional club rather than their community club.

I keep seeing people mentioning that UK passport holders (as in the case of Caleb Aekins and Kai O’Donnell in the Leigh example) are exempt from the quota, but a quick perusal of the operational rules doesn’t throw anything up on that front?

Also worth nothing that the 7 non-federation players relates only to the matchday squad, so for arguments sake you could have a dozen such players in your overall squad so long as five of them are sat in the stand each week. 

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

I don’t necessarily agree with it as I feel it should really be linked to international eligibility, but I think it relates to their first professional club rather than their community club.

I keep seeing people mentioning that UK passport holders (as in the case of Caleb Aekins and Kai O’Donnell in the Leigh example) are exempt from the quota, but a quick perusal of the operational rules doesn’t throw anything up on that front?

Also worth nothing that the 7 non-federation players relates only to the matchday squad, so for arguments sake you could have a dozen such players in your overall squad so long as five of them are sat in the stand each week. 

I can see why it applies to players who might qualify for a UK passport but to apply it to 2 British born & raised players who move to Australia to further their rugby careers is lunacy.

[Leyther_Matt]

7 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I can see why it applies to players who might qualify for a UK passport but to apply it to 2 British born & raised players who move to Australia to further their rugby careers is lunacy.

I suppose it could be seen as a means of promoting player development pathways rather than creating a market for UK-eligible Aussies, but you’d think the salary cap exemptions would be enough encouragement on that front. The Widdop and Farnworth scenarios are particularly ridiculous though. 

[bobbruce]

7 hours ago, Davo5 said:

I can see why it applies to players who might qualify for a UK passport but to apply it to 2 British born & raised players who move to Australia to further their rugby careers is lunacy.

The Fed trained system was brought in because everyone with an EU passport had to be treated the same as everyone with a British passport. When the Kolpac agreement was reached every country with a treaty with the EU citizens had to be treated the same.  That meant for RL Fiji,Tonga and Samoa which pretty much meant using passports to run the quota was useless. It’s possible someone like Widdop is a casualty of this but there’s not much you can do as if you treat him differently to someone with a Tongan passport you’d be taken to court. 

[The Future is League]

8 hours ago, The Daddy said:

If a player is Australian but has a EU or UK passport do they count on the quota?

I don't think a EU passport allows you work in the UK since we voted to leave the EU.

Anyway lets agree there are far to many overseas players playing in Super League and it needs to be reduced.

[Toby Chopra]

29 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I don't think a EU passport allows you work in the UK since we voted to leave the EU.

Anyway lets agree there are far to many overseas players playing in Super League and it needs to be reduced.

I don't agree with that at all, overall they make it a much more attractive product. Ok, we've had a few duffers over the years, but most add something, and some take it to another level. 

Plenty of opportunities for homegrown players if they're good enough. 

[Toby Chopra]

I struggle to see how the quota rules hold up in law in the case of someone like Gareth Widdop - seems plainly discriminatory to me - but somehow they do. 

[Derwent]

25 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

I struggle to see how the quota rules hold up in law in the case of someone like Gareth Widdop - seems plainly discriminatory to me - but somehow they do. 

The rules have been in place for over 20 years and nobody has challenged them. I remember when the rules first came in there were some bizarre situations. For example, Martin Gleason was classed as non-fed but his brother Mark wasn’t. 
 

At one time Wigan had an English born Engand international (Gleason) on their non-fed quota while having a New Zealand born Kiwi international (Harrison Hansen) on their fed trained list.

[Chrispmartha]

9 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

 

Also worth nothing that the 7 non-federation players relates only to the matchday squad, so for arguments sake you could have a dozen such players in your overall squad so long as five of them are sat in the stand each week. 

You sure about that, doesn’t seem correct to me?

 

happy to be proved wrong though.

[Davo5]

18 minutes ago, Derwent said:

The rules have been in place for over 20 years and nobody has challenged them. I remember when the rules first came in there were some bizarre situations. For example, Martin Gleason was classed as non-fed but his brother Mark wasn’t. 
 

At one time Wigan had an English born Engand international (Gleason) on their non-fed quota while having a New Zealand born Kiwi international (Harrison Hansen) on their fed trained list.

20 years eh,we’ll I suppose the world hasn’t changed much in those 2 decades.

Im sure the RFL will address it when they have time.

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

You sure about that, doesn’t seem correct to me?

 

happy to be proved wrong though.

I don’t knew but it’s obvious the rules need overhauled,it seems an absolute shambles at the minute.

[Wholly Trinity]

As long as it doesn't discriminate against individuals, it's not seen as restraint of trade.

Much simpler now with a single quota rather than some overseas and some non-fed trained, combined with the massive kolpac loophole when were still in the EU.

[Gates1]

16 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

 

Also worth nothing that the 7 non-federation players relates only to the matchday squad, so for arguments sake you could have a dozen such players in your overall squad so long as five of them are sat in the stand each week. 

Pretty sure that's wrong.  Quotas relate to how many you can register I think.

[Magic Superbeetle]

18 minutes ago, Gates1 said:

Pretty sure that's wrong.  Quotas relate to how many you can register I think.

100%. SL clubs can register up to 7 non federation trained players in their top 25 earners. 
A non-federation trained player is defined as anyone who is not federation trained. A federation trained player is defined as anyone who was registered to an associated RFL club for at least 3 years between the ages of 16-21. That time doesn’t need to be spent at a single club, and is an aggregate total of the time spent by a player. The RFL also hold the right to “grant” federation status to a player in exceptional circumstances. 
Quota isn’t a thing any more. Whilst we can’t definitively say it was illegal as it was never challenged in court, it almost definitely was, as nationality is a protected characteristic, and we see many examples of fans of clubs talking about players being let go on the basis of their non fed status (see myself talking about James Bell leaving Saints so we can sign a non fed winger to replace Grace). The RFL knew this which is why there were lots of loopholes (kolpac) as well as exceptions (clubs going bust, players joining before certain dates etc). Tommy Leuluai is the last exemption I believe, but is why Wigan technically have 8 non fed players this year (Field, French, Isa, Cust, Ellis, Mago, Miski as well as TL)

[moorside roughyed]

Can of worms.

[Leyther_Matt]

8 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

You sure about that, doesn’t seem correct to me?

 

happy to be proved wrong though.

 

1 hour ago, Gates1 said:

Pretty sure that's wrong.  Quotas relate to how many you can register I think.

 

43 minutes ago, Magic Superbeetle said:

100%. SL clubs can register up to 7 non federation trained players in their top 25 earners. 
A non-federation trained player is defined as anyone who is not federation trained. A federation trained player is defined as anyone who was registered to an associated RFL club for at least 3 years between the ages of 16-21. That time doesn’t need to be spent at a single club, and is an aggregate total of the time spent by a player. The RFL also hold the right to “grant” federation status to a player in exceptional circumstances. 
Quota isn’t a thing any more. Whilst we can’t definitively say it was illegal as it was never challenged in court, it almost definitely was, as nationality is a protected characteristic, and we see many examples of fans of clubs talking about players being let go on the basis of their non fed status (see myself talking about James Bell leaving Saints so we can sign a non fed winger to replace Grace). The RFL knew this which is why there were lots of loopholes (kolpac) as well as exceptions (clubs going bust, players joining before certain dates etc). Tommy Leuluai is the last exemption I believe, but is why Wigan technically have 8 non fed players this year (Field, French, Isa, Cust, Ellis, Mago, Miski as well as TL)

Apologies, I’d misread the first part of it. Still no mention of UK passport exemptions though, unless that’s just taken as a given?

 

[Magic Superbeetle]

2 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

 

 

Apologies, I’d misread the first part of it. Still no mention of UK passport exemptions though, unless that’s just taken as a given?

 

UK passport doesn’t grant an exemption. Nor does anything based on nationality. Federation trained status is a qualification based on a specific players experience rather than anything about them.

a SL club could sign an Aussie Schoolboy at 16 bring them through the academy and they would be federation trained (home grown trained in fact). If a British player moves to Aus at 15, gets signed up by an NRL club and goes on to join a SL club, non-fed trained. 
 

Of course, the RFL can grant the qualification in exceptional circumstances, but I don’t believe they ever posted what those were.

[The Future is League]

Lets all agree that there are too many players from the SH playing in Super League and they need to be reduced. We need to encourage British talent and the French clubs need to encourage French Talent

[whatmichaelsays]

10 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I don't think a EU passport allows you work in the UK since we voted to leave the EU.

Anyway lets agree there are far to many overseas players playing in Super League and it needs to be reduced.

The EU thing was rendered moot well before Brexit when the RFL moved to federation-trained player system. 

The issue was less to do with EU players (or Aussies with rights to EU passports, which weren't that much of the player market), but rather players from the South Sea Island nations that had trade agreements with the EU. The 'Kolpak' ruling meant that these players were disregarded from any quota under EU law (as long as they qualified for a visa). 

It was the Kolpak ruling that was the real motivation for the RFL to move the quota away from one based on nationality / citizenship and toward one based around where players were trained.