IMG - Thought's, suggestions and comments to move the game forward

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2022/jun/10/world-club-championship-tournament-mockery-super-leaguerugby-league

 

Twenty-five years on, only half of the European clubs – and two of the stadiums – remain in Super League. WCC stages Central Park, Knowsley Road, The Willows, Wilderspool and Thrum Hall have long since been dismantled. NRL has ballooned commercially, meaning a glorified friendly against the English champions holds little appeal to many club CEOs. But, put in the hands of Super League’s new partners IMG, it could at least become an attention-grabbing, revenue-driving date in the sporting calendar.

Play it in Singapore with its largish expat community and tap into the corporate dollar.

[Oxford]

Someone on here posted that IMG will make our players more marketable (sorry can't remember who it was)

That's what I thought the IMG partnership would be all about creating RL as a go to option in the market place.

I had doubts because IMG can never have come up against the kind of obstruction and barriers that RL faces. They will have dealt with markets where credence and credibility for sports and athletes can never have been so afr behind their real worth.

Since the announcement though all the talk has been useless and obviously bent issues of restructure and expansion. Neither of these are the solution they're painted as nor will they achieve the goal of growing the game.

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, steve oates said:

No they couldn't...........

Look at the rosters for Catalans and Toulouse, their first teams are awash with non French  imports. 

Les Catalans use about 5 first choice French players. Toulouse also have about 5 French first team picks, but Toulouse aren't an established Superleague side. Their players may be going back to championship next season.

By all means pick your actual French team "on paper" but remember in real life you cannot press gang the top few French lads into playing England. They need to put their clubs first, not be side lined by injury by a mid week hammering by England before a couple of thousand fans.

Pointless comment. I said those two clubs would help lead to a competitive French team. Booting them out (which is what you want) will a massive blow to the development of France.

[steve oates]

1 hour ago, NW10LDN said:

Pointless comment. I said those two clubs would help lead to a competitive French team. Booting them out (which is what you want) will a massive blow to the development of France.

Speak for yourself. I'd have Catalans in all day, top club in terms of SKY watching which I and others have said. Top owner Gausch pumps £Millions in. But I do not see how they would lead to a competitive France team???

That is up to the the French governing body to sort out. Individual SL French clubs have to concentrate on staying in and competing in Superleague. Get the best players regardless of origin.

The French game needs to get playing numbers up, especially in schools and local junior clubs. However that is hard against the overwhelming presence of a Strong French Rugby Union....

You may have confused me with Eamon McManus at Saints......

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Speak for yourself. I'd have Catalans in all day, top club in terms of SKY watching which I and others have said. Top owner Gausch pumps £Millions in. But I do not see how they would lead to a competitive France team???

That is up to the the French governing body to sort out. Individual SL French clubs have to concentrate on staying in and competing in Superleague. Get the best players regardless of origin.

The French game needs to get playing numbers up, especially in schools and local junior clubs. However that is hard against the overwhelming presence of a Strong French Rugby Union....

You may have confused me with Eamon McManus at Saints......

There's a lot you can't see.

[Harry Stottle]

Why is it all the onus on building up the French game and International team seems to have to rest in many peoples eyes with the UK game, when are the FFR going to make some commitment and come up with some initiatives to further what is essentially their cause, it is not as though the UK game is flushed with money, I am also a big believer in 'Charity begins at home" look after your own first and then the rest if there is anything left.

It will be interesting to see if IMG sees the French game as part of their remit.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Why is it all the onus on building up the French game and International team seems to have to rest in many peoples eyes with the UK game, when are the FFR going to make some commitment and come up with some initiatives to further what is essentially their cause, it is not as though the UK game is flushed with money, I am also a big believer in 'Charity begins at home" look after your own first and then the rest if there is anything left.

It will be interesting to see if IMG sees the French game as part of their remit.

The FFR have showed plenty of commitment to their sport despite the strength of union and the ban in schools until the 90s. Drop the xenophobia and do a bit of research and you would see that. Sky aren't going to increase their deal if Catalans are removed and don't care about the French not buying Sky Sports unlike some on here.

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, NW10LDN said:

The FFR have showed plenty of commitment to their sport despite the strength of union and the ban in schools until the 90s. Drop the xenophobia and do a bit of research and you would see that. Sky aren't going to increase their deal if Catalans are removed and don't care about the French not buying Sky Sports unlike some on here.

Really, do they have termed laid out plans to reach and acheive certain goals? examples please.

Whatever Sky do is up to them, I doubt very much Sky will give an increase for the next new contract, now that Comcast are the owners.

And disagree with Steve Oates all you want, France will not be very competitive come October/November they just don't have enough quality players in depth, I agree with the statement whatever the sport is that you "don't get any better if you don't play better teams" I have a suspicion that could also apply to England (albeit would love to be proved wrong) after this world tournament, so considering there is only 3 years to prepare for the next WC, make the most of it and play better teams, I will be spending money touring France for the WC in '25, I want the team I am supporting to do as well as it possibly can, which will only be acheived with the correct preperation.

And please, if someone on these pages has a view that differs from others re French RL they are suddenly xenophobic, as far as France is concerned I love going to the place, but for Covid decending I would be the proud owner of property now right smack bang in the heart of Languedoc in the RL community, Covid scuppered all the plans. 

[Wakefield Ram]

Don't be fooled by this "strategic partnership" corporate nonsense. IMG will see the RFL as a cash cow to milked for as much as possible for as long as possible. 

They will have good contacts in marketing but anything they propose will have a price tag and will come up against the same vested interests that exist now.

What insights can they offer that people involved in the game don't already know? Expand the International programme? Great except the Aussies are light years ahead and have little interest in touring UK and realistically there's only NZ and Tonga who could provide a competitive match. Reduce the number of teams in SL?  Remember "Framing the Future"Future"?

They might be able to market a few players (whilst taking a fee) but whilstever RL is predominantly a sport out of the public eye on SkySports and Premier Sports with little press coverage then it's not going to create any household names.

I hope they can deliver some benefits with some centralised marketing of the game, but like many consultancies, the promise is far greater than the delivery.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Wakefield Ram

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Don't be fooled by this "strategic partnership" corporate nonsense. IMG will see the RFL as a cash cow to milked for as much as possible for as long as possible. 

They will have good contacts in marketing but anything they propose will have a price tag and will come up against the same vested interests that exist now.

What insights can they offer that people involved in the game don't already know? Expand the International programme? Great except the Aussies are light years ahead and have little interest in touring UK and realistically there's only NZ and Tonga who could provide a competitive match. Reduce the number of teams in SL?  Remember "Framing the Future"Future"?

They might be able to market a few players (whilst taking a fee) but whilstever RL is predominantly a sport out of the public eye on SkySports and Premier Sports with little press coverage then it's not going to create any household names.

I hope they can deliver some benefits with some centralised marketing of the game, but like many consultancies, the promise is far greater than the delivery.

If they can make money out of RL then great, because nobody else is managing to make money from it. 

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Don't be fooled by this "strategic partnership" corporate nonsense. IMG will see the RFL as a cash cow to milked for as much as possible for as long as possible.

Given that they're on commission this seems like a win/win.

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

It will be interesting to see if IMG sees the French game as part of their remit.

Asked by Martyn what sucess would look like, Matt Dwyer of IMG said: "If we can get to a position where we can significantly grow the revenue with clubs that are strong financially and high levels of interest and awareness of the sport across the country, as well as looking at where we are in Europe, then we will have made progress.”

So not a wholehearted response. My feeling is the existing French clubs will serve a purpose for IMG in terms of having financially strong clubs and as part of the rebranding efforts, but I doubt they'll be looking much deeper into the French game than that. 

That said, I doubt they'll be spending too much time looking at the English game below 2x12 or whatever it ends up being. 

If they succeed in growing revenues at the top end there'll be some funds for the RFL to direct at grassroots. 

Not being a partner in the commercial company, the FFR13 won't see any of that. 

[Moove]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

Speak for yourself. I'd have Catalans in all day, top club in terms of SKY watching which I and others have said. Top owner Gausch pumps £Millions in. But I do not see how they would lead to a competitive France team???

That is up to the the French governing body to sort out. Individual SL French clubs have to concentrate on staying in and competing in Superleague. Get the best players regardless of origin.

The French game needs to get playing numbers up, especially in schools and local junior clubs. However that is hard against the overwhelming presence of a Strong French Rugby Union....

You may have confused me with Eamon McManus at Saints......

Not sure if I'm missing something here but McManus has been pretty positive about the inclusion of French teams in the past. Certainly doesn't want them booted out like you seem to be suggesting given the context of the post you're replying to.

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Given that they're on commission this seems like a win/win.

Any Idea what that commision will be as a percentage of the profits earned, I believe it is a 12 year agreement so I should imagine they will be doing quite a lot of work before they will see a penny.

[Big Picture]

19 hours ago, Dave T said:

Below is a direct quote from you. I'll leave this discussion now and agree to disagree. 

Expats didn't just "play a part" in Toronto's case, they made up the great bulk of the Wolfpack's fans

Go back and re-read what I wrote, I wasn't talking only about expats there, I was talking about the big chunk of the GTA population with recent family ties to Britain. i.e. expats and the first and second generation descendants of expats.

10 hours ago, Dave T said:

As an aside, when you say US model, what do you mean? 

By North American model I mean a franchised league with all the other operating practices of North American pro sports.  Decades of experience in at least five sports has shown this model to be the way to make investment in pro sports at both the major league and minor league level to be profitable for franchise owners.  Even junior ice hockey in Canada follows that model.

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

If they can make money out of RL then great, because nobody else is managing to make money from it. 

Comparing the way even minor league sports franchises are profitable in North America following the operating model established over here with the 400 million US$ Randy Lerner lost owning Aston Villa, you don't seriously believe that even IMG can make money out of RL as it's set up and structured in the UK now do you?

16 hours ago, Oxford said:

This has worked because people will turn up to american sports opening of an envelope, the image of RL hardly scratches the surface of that kind of attraction.

Then the way to change that image is to copy that North American model lock, stock and barrel isn't it, and even rename the sport altogether if needed so it can credibly be presented as something big and important.  As we know past attempts to copy small parts of it in RL didn't achieve that change because they didn't change anything really fundamental.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Big Picture

[Wakefield Ram]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Any Idea what that commision will be as a percentage of the profits earned, I believe it is a 12 year agreement so I should imagine they will be doing quite a lot of work before they will see a penny.

Not seen any mention of working on commission. Reading the article it mentions using their digital company and a couple of other affiliates. They won't be working for free.

The last time I was at somewhere that entered into a "strategic partnership", the client (large corporation) ended up suing their strategic partner to re-coup most of the large amount of money they'd paid for not very much in return.

Think the RFL/SL should be very cautious, IMGs purpose is to make money.

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/37254/rfl-and-super-league-announce-strategic-partnership-with-img

Edited August 4, 2022 by Wakefield Ram

[Tommygilf]

IMG are being kind at the moment. They are "listening to all opinions and stakeholders". They know opinions are like backsides, everyone has one. They will give some egos the courtesy of listening to theirs.

I doubt many will inform their actual recommendations

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

Not seen any mention of working on commission. Reading the article it mentions using their digital company and a couple of other affiliates. They won't be working for free.

The last time I was at somewhere that entered into a "strategic partnership", the client (large corporation) ended up suing their strategic partner to re-coup most of the large amount of money they'd paid for not very much in return.

Think the RFL/SL should be very cautious, IMGs purpose is to make money.

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/37254/rfl-and-super-league-announce-strategic-partnership-with-img

Yeah, IMG make money on a percentage above what the game has coming in now. That's their commission. The greater the increase, the larger their return.

That will give them the commercial incentive to make commercial decisions. Which is what a sports business should do.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

IMG are being kind at the moment. They are "listening to all opinions and stakeholders". They know opinions are like backsides, everyone has one. They will give some egos the courtesy of listening to theirs.

I doubt many will inform their actual recommendations

I suspect they will have learnt very quickly just which superficial things (like the edges of the divisional structure) occupy the minds and voices of the loudest, whilst which fundamental things (like the entirety of digital marketing) seem to be of no interest to any of them.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, gingerjon said:

I suspect they will have learnt very quickly just which superficial things (like the edges of the divisional structure) occupy the minds and voices of the loudest, whilst which fundamental things (like the entirety of digital marketing) seem to be of no interest to any of them.

Absolutely. I suspect they will have also seen how many of the loudest are the most insecure.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I suspect they will have learnt very quickly just which superficial things (like the edges of the divisional structure) occupy the minds and voices of the loudest, whilst which fundamental things (like the entirety of digital marketing) seem to be of no interest to any of them.

Anybody in particular in mind Ginger?

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Anybody in particular in mind Ginger?

No. I just say random things into the ether.

[Harry Stottle]

31 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

No. I just say random things into the ether.

There are places to go and people to see for conditions like that, be aware.

[steve oates]

15 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

 

The last time I was at somewhere that entered into a "strategic partnership", the client (large corporation) ended up suing their strategic partner to re-coup most of the large amount of money they'd paid for not very much in return.

Think the RFL/SL should be very cautious, IMGs purpose is to make money.

Post of the week for me

As people are saying the RFL/SL will quite rightly only pay on results.

I'd expect nothing much at all from these people..

[Wakefield Ram]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

Post of the week for me

As people are saying the RFL/SL will quite rightly only pay on results.

I'd expect nothing much at all from these people..

Thanks. 20 odd years experience of working with various agencies and big consultancy companies leaves me pretty cynical.

Not sure what IMG can tell us about the structure of the game that we don't already know.

Hopefully some centralised marketing would be a lot slicker and maybe they can attract more sponsorship money through their contacts. But sponsors won't come just because RL is working with IMG. Genuinely hope I'm wrong though.