England Squad

[Stanley30]

1 hour ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Why, What Team is going to beat England to the final they’ve never lost to Tonga or Samoa and I very much doubt they will this tournament.

So let me turn the question around. What do you see in the English squad that tells you they will definitely make the final? I see NZ and AUS way ahead and us battling Tonga for 3rd. We now have a coach who is very much of the forward pursuassion and will try and get his team to dominate in the pack. Something which we aren't going to do against some of the South Sea islanders? 

I see a lot of tried and failed players and a lot of players who haven't performed this year, yet still make the squad. 

Would love us to even make the final, but can only see us falling backwards again this year. 

[Damien]

21 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

McIlorum is a more natural hooker than Radley and offers the crunching tackles as well. I think he'll be pretty good for Wane, with either Clark, McShane or Leeming on the bench.

McIlorum was very underrated at Wigan and was a really good player. I'd certainly have that McIlorum in the squad.

However that was 5 years ago now and at 34 he is some years past it. It's not like he is Roby, who is still performing 

He shouldn't be considered for England.

[SydneyRoosters]

23 minutes ago, Stanley30 said:

So let me turn the question around. What do you see in the English squad that tells you they will definitely make the final? I see NZ and AUS way ahead and us battling Tonga for 3rd. We now have a coach who is very much of the forward pursuassion and will try and get his team to dominate in the pack. Something which we aren't going to do against some of the South Sea islanders? 

I see a lot of tried and failed players and a lot of players who haven't performed this year, yet still make the squad. 

Would love us to even make the final, but can only see us falling backwards again this year. 

Do you realise England don’t have to vs Australia or New Zealand to make final. And also Samoan’s and Tongans aren’t south sea islander.

[Mr Frisky]

32 minutes ago, Stanley30 said:

So let me turn the question around. What do you see in the English squad that tells you they will definitely make the final? I see NZ and AUS way ahead and us battling Tonga for 3rd. We now have a coach who is very much of the forward pursuassion and will try and get his team to dominate in the pack. Something which we aren't going to do against some of the South Sea islanders? 

I see a lot of tried and failed players and a lot of players who haven't performed this year, yet still make the squad. 

Would love us to even make the final, but can only see us falling backwards again this year. 

I think we are better than you give us credit for.

Like Oz & NZ we have more strength in depth than any other country.

We know the Island nations are strong from 1 to 13 or 17 but just like when England easily beat Samoa in 2017 everyone said we had no chance as we had 4 NRL players and mostly SL players and Samoa had about 15 NRL players in the team - because as we all know NRL beat SL every time...

We are probably slightly behind oz and NZ, but at home with a bit of momentum we could click. Oz are untested and NZ are..NZ who knows what NZ will turn up.

We have a very good set of players, some world class - Makemson, Walmsley, Knowles ( Roby- if only) but I would still like to have the likes of Chris Hill so our pack dont get bullied by the islander packs .

Edited September 10, 2022 by Mr Frisky

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

I think we are better than you give us credit for.

Like Oz & NZ we have more strength in depth than any other country.

We know the Island nations are strong from 1 to 13 or 17 but just like when England easily beat Samoa in 2017 everyone said we had no chance as we had 4 NRL players and mostly SL players and Samoa had about 15 NRL players in the team - because as we all know NRL beat SL every time...

We are probably slightly behind oz and NZ, but at home with a bit of momentum we could click. Oz are untested and NZ are..NZ who knows what NZ will turn up.

We have a very good set of players, some world class - Makemson, Walmsley, Knowles ( Roby- if only) but I would still like to have the likes of Chris Hill so our pack dont get bullied by the islander packs .

Do we have strength in depth though,our halfback options look really weak,we are probably going to rely on centre’s who have missed the back end of the season & hooker is a massive problem.

[SydneyRoosters]

3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Do we have strength in depth though,our halfback options look really weak,we are probably going to rely on centre’s who have missed the back end of the season & hooker is a massive problem.

Yes but Maybe not this year because of all the injuries.

[StandOffHalf]

23 minutes ago, Damien said:

McIlorum was very underrated at Wigan and was a really good player. I'd certainly have that McIlorum in the squad.

However that was 5 years ago now and at 34 he is some years past it. It's not like he is Roby, who is still performing 

He shouldn't be considered for England.

Yeah, Damien. Like you, I wouldn't have McIlorum in the England squad. I was looking at it from the point of Wane trusting him and picking him.

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Do we have strength in depth though,our halfback options look really weak,we are probably going to rely on centre’s who have missed the back end of the season & hooker is a massive problem.

Let's see.  George Williams was rated one of the top halves in the NRL when he was there and despite Wire under performing this year he is a dangerous runner and has a quality short kicking game.

Lomax (if fit) is also a very good player.

I would say Williams and Lomax are just as good as Gale and Brown from 2017 if not better.

[Davo5]

2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Let's see.  George Williams was rated one of the top halves in the NRL when he was there and despite Wire under performing this year he is a dangerous runner and has a quality short kicking game.

Lomax (if fit) is also a very good player.

I would say Williams and Lomax are just as good as Gale and Brown from 2017 if not better.

One of the top halves in the NRL,really ? He had a promising first season,wasn’t great in his curtailed second & his form has fell off a cliff at Warrington.

Lomax is a consistent performer behind a dominant pack at Saints but has carried an arm injury all season which has impacted his form,both of them lack the long kicking game needed at Test level.

Not sure why you think comparing them to Gale/Brown fron 5 yrs ago is relevant.

[Dunbar]

20 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

One of the top halves in the NRL,really ? He had a promising first season,wasn’t great in his curtailed second & his form has fell off a cliff at Warrington.

Lomax is a consistent performer behind a dominant pack at Saints but has carried an arm injury all season which has impacted his form,both of them lack the long kicking game needed at Test level.

Not sure why you think comparing them to Gale/Brown fron 5 yrs ago is relevant.

A simple Google search will find plenty of articles from the end of 2020 & start of 2021 ranking Williams in and around the top 5 half backs in the NRL.

As for comparing our current halves to 2017.  I don't know, I thought that comparing the current team to the one that got to the final last time would be relevant in a conversation about the strength of our squad.

[DavidM]

Good to see Whitehead in tremendous form today 

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

A simple Google search will find plenty of articles from the end of 2020 & start of 2021 ranking Williams in and around the top 5 half backs in the NRL.

As for comparing our current halves to 2017.  I don't know, I thought that comparing the current team to the one that got to the final last time would be relevant in a conversation about the strength of our squad.

Williams has never been anywhere near the top 5 halves in the NRL & at present he’s even further away from being in the top 5 halves in Superleague.

2017 has nothing to do with our current halfback strength.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Williams has never been anywhere near the top 5 halves in the NRL & at present he’s even further away from being in the top 5 halves in Superleague.

2017 has nothing to do with our current halfback strength.

I'm not talking about your opinion of him, I am talking about other people who said he was.

You are fully entitled to your opinion.

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

I think we are better than you give us credit for.

Like Oz & NZ we have more strength in depth than any other country.

We know the Island nations are strong from 1 to 13 or 17 but just like when England easily beat Samoa in 2017 everyone said we had no chance as we had 4 NRL players and mostly SL players and Samoa had about 15 NRL players in the team - because as we all know NRL beat SL every time...

We are probably slightly behind oz and NZ, but at home with a bit of momentum we could click. Oz are untested and NZ are..NZ who knows what NZ will turn up.

We have a very good set of players, some world class - Makemson, Walmsley, Knowles ( Roby- if only) but I would still like to have the likes of Chris Hill so our pack dont get bullied by the islander packs .

I don't think you realise how much depth tonga and samoa have in the nrl. Tonga can literally field 2 world class starting forwards packs. The backs ain't bad either. Samoa are on the same boat, not so much in the forwards but in the backs. You can't compare the 2017 test to the present. The island nations are 10 times better now than 2017. I honestly don't see England handling tonga's forward pack and in the backs. Losing James Graham and especially Sam Burgess is a huge blow for England. I'll give England credit they have solid halves. But if Tonga or samoa dominate them in the forwards I don't see the halves doing much all game tbh. Englands not getting into that final easy. The Tongan team now is way better than the Tongan team that the English just beat at the last world cup

[Mojo]

You guys are judging tonga way too much out of that one off Kiwis test. The Tongan team in the world cup will be alot different to that one and they will be better. They didn't have Woolfe and Bennett pulled out during the week so that definitely ruined their preparation. I pick tonga over England to make the final but that all depends on the samoan squad too

[Mr Frisky]

2 minutes ago, Mojo said:

I don't think you realise how much depth tonga and samoa have in the nrl. Tonga can literally field 2 world class starting forwards packs. The backs ain't bad either. Samoa are on the same boat, not so much in the forwards but in the backs. You can't compare the 2017 test to the present. The island nations are 10 times better now than 2017. I honestly don't see England handling tonga's forward pack and in the backs. Losing James Graham and especially Sam Burgess is a huge blow for England. I'll give England credit they have solid halves. But if Tonga or samoa dominate them in the forwards I don't see the halves doing much all game tbh. Englands not getting into that final easy. The Tongan team now is way better than the Tongan team that the English just beat at the last world cup

10x better.. how do you measure that then?

Didn't that great new Tonga team get beat by NZ recently?

I watch ( and attend) NRL games so I see both comps each year and SL has some amazing players - as I said you sound like the blinkered Aussie commentators back in 2017 when the way they predicted who would win was based on the number of NRL players they had v SL.

These teams will give England a test, obviously- that's what everyone wants but Englands strength in depth and organisational experience will see them get over the line.

[Mr Frisky]

Just now, Mojo said:

You guys are judging tonga way too much out of that one off Kiwis test. The Tongan team in the world cup will be alot different to that one and they will be better. They didn't have Woolfe and Bennett pulled out during the week so that definitely ruined their preparation. I pick tonga over England to make the final but that all depends on the samoan squad too

Out of the big 3 arnt England the only team Tonga has never beaten??

Anyway there is a WC coming up to see who beats who.

[Mojo]

3 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Out of the big 3 arnt England the only team Tonga has never beaten??

Anyway there is a WC coming up to see who beats who.

Just because they haven't beaten them doesn't mean they can't what kind of argument is that? 

[Stanley30]

1 hour ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Do you realise England don’t have to vs Australia or New Zealand to make final. And also Samoan’s and Tongans aren’t south sea islander.

Nope, don't have the wall chart

[Mr Frisky]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

Just because they haven't beaten them doesn't mean they can't what kind of argument is that? 

One day maybe.... one day....

[Dunbar]

9 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You guys are judging tonga way too much out of that one off Kiwis test. The Tongan team in the world cup will be alot different to that one and they will be better. They didn't have Woolfe and Bennett pulled out during the week so that definitely ruined their preparation. I pick tonga over England to make the final but that all depends on the samoan squad too

And you have already said on here that you don't watch Super League.

I am happy to debate with anyone the strengths of the England team against other nations but I don't think it's possible to debate with someone who doesn't watch the majority of England squad play. You're just guessing. 

[Stanley30]

1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

I think we are better than you give us credit for.

Like Oz & NZ we have more strength in depth than any other country.

We know the Island nations are strong from 1 to 13 or 17 but just like when England easily beat Samoa in 2017 everyone said we had no chance as we had 4 NRL players and mostly SL players and Samoa had about 15 NRL players in the team - because as we all know NRL beat SL every time...

We are probably slightly behind oz and NZ, but at home with a bit of momentum we could click. Oz are untested and NZ are..NZ who knows what NZ will turn up.

We have a very good set of players, some world class - Makemson, Walmsley, Knowles ( Roby- if only) but I would still like to have the likes of Chris Hill so our pack dont get bullied by the islander packs .

I hope we are better than I think. I just don't see it. 

You've also just named a load of player that once again have never really scared the aussie or the kiwis

For every makinson, they have 3.

For every walmsley, the whole Tonga team are that size. 

Hope home advantage helps, but currently think we're battling with the rest after aus/kiwis and I cant see the gap between some of the rest anymore 

[Balmainboy]

Big question mark for me is Samoa. Historically underperformed but should have one of the best 1 - 17 on paper this year. Who knows if they'll perform this time around. 

England v Samoa (like most games I suppose) will be decided in the forwards. If England can match them, they'll win - big if though. England's forwards IMO have lost a lot since 2017 with no Burgess or Graham...

Also - does Knowles play on the edge at all? Have only watched him past two seasons almost exclusively at lock (moved to London 2 years ago which is when started watching super league FYI). Would be very tempted to start Radley at 13 in the first game mostly as he knows what is coming, though both will play lots through the comp....

[DavidM]

Oddschecker tells me England are third favourites for the WC , and I get 14-1 on Tonga , 33-1 on Samoa and 50-1 on Fiji.

[Mojo]

26 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

10x better.. how do you measure that then?

Didn't that great new Tonga team get beat by NZ recently?

I watch ( and attend) NRL games so I see both comps each year and SL has some amazing players - as I said you sound like the blinkered Aussie commentators back in 2017 when the way they predicted who would win was based on the number of NRL players they had v SL.

These teams will give England a test, obviously- that's what everyone wants but Englands strength in depth and organisational experience will see them get over the line.

The quality of island players that are playing now compared to 2017 is so much better. The samoan team that played england had Josh McGuire playing hooker because they had no hooker. They had one on the bench that played reserve grade. The quality of players now that are choosing to play for the island nations over the kangaroos is unheard of. The tongans depth has doubled since the last world cup and it's looking scary. The GB team is a good indication of how one sided the teams are now. The GB team was stacked with English players and they got beaten comfortably by the Kiwis, Tonga and PNG. Kiwis did beat Tonga but let's be honest if they were playing the English that night the Kiwis would've won by at least 50pts