England Squad

[SydneyRoosters]

13 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Do we know when the actual squad will be announced?

24th of September 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

Which is why club form is not the primary selection criteria IMO. Talent, experience, form, even potential are just some of the criteria. 

So the likes of Davies, Marshall, possibly Batchelor (?!) at Saints are examples of excellent club players but without the ability to step up to international elite level. Same with Hall but that he’s lost his pace; that should discount him. Lynne at Wakefield is another - doesn’t have the stretch potential. 

How do you know they don't have the ability to step up - they haven't been given the chance ?

People were saying that Batchelor was just a squad filler when he joined Saints as he wasn't good enough to become a regular starter - 2 Yrs later look at him now, one of the best performing players at the club.

[WN83]

Batchelor walks a place in the England squad for me, even more so now Farrell looks to be a major doubt. He has impressed me every time I've watched him this season and pound for pound, I think he's comfortably been Saints best performing player against Wigan. That bodes well for his ability to step up in big games and I look at him physically and I think he'll take to international rugby league like a duck to water. If I picked a single player from Englands potential squad for the WC, who could go in as a bit of an unknown quantity at that level and come out making a major name for themselves, it would be Batchelor. 

[Dunbar]

17 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Batchelor walks a place in the England squad for me, even more so now Farrell looks to be a major doubt. He has impressed me every time I've watched him this season and pound for pound, I think he's comfortably been Saints best performing player against Wigan. That bodes well for his ability to step up in big games and I look at him physically and I think he'll take to international rugby league like a duck to water. If I picked a single player from Englands potential squad for the WC, who could go in as a bit of an unknown quantity at that level and come out making a major name for themselves, it would be Batchelor. 

I agree with this point.  Batchelor has been great this season and I would certainly have him in the squad and probably the 17.

While I expect Wane to select him, Whitehead has been poor this year for the Raiders with his impact well down on recent years, on form he would be fortunate to get a spot (unless he has a very strong finals series).

This is just a comment on form, Whitehead has been a very good player for England and a personal favourite.

[StandOffHalf]

Batchelor fully deserves to be in the England squad, and is pushing to be a starter. The same can be said of Liam Marshall - although I favour Burgess on the left wing.

I think it's rather unfair to say that either aren't ''international standard''.

[DavidM]

28 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Batchelor walks a place in the England squad for me, even more so now Farrell looks to be a major doubt. He has impressed me every time I've watched him this season and pound for pound, I think he's comfortably been Saints best performing player against Wigan. That bodes well for his ability to step up in big games and I look at him physically and I think he'll take to international rugby league like a duck to water. If I picked a single player from Englands potential squad for the WC, who could go in as a bit of an unknown quantity at that level and come out making a major name for themselves, it would be Batchelor. 

Yes very impressive , if we’re picking on form and not past reputation he’s in there . 

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Without wanting to be all doom & gloom I think England have some serious problems with quality & squad depth and I can't see them beating Aus, NZ or Tonga.

Yes we would want to be going into this WC without Mr Wane having as many selections probables on his desktop to choose from and all of his headaches stemming from who to leave out.

I think you sum it up quite well with "England have some serious problems with quality and squad depth" and that is not being defeatist it is being a realist, at professional and administrative level the sport has only itself to blame, we have produced far to few player's of the right quality for years, so when it comes to international selection this is the realisation of the situation.

Edited September 6, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[Saint Toppy]

25 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Batchelor fully deserves to be in the England squad, and is pushing to be a starter. The same can be said of Liam Marshall - although I favour Burgess on the left wing.

I think it's rather unfair to say that either aren't ''international standard''.

This is the classic pick players on form or reputation argument.

For me Marshall & Murphy have been the 2 best left wingers in SL this year, plenty of pace, clinical finishers and match winners for their clubs. Both thoroughly deserve to be in the squad and a chance as a starting winger. Similar for Batchelor, I thought he was Saints best forward in last years GF and he's continued that form in 2022. Its not that he's just had a few outstanding games, he's been consistently good all year

[Saint Toppy]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes we would want to be going into this WC with Mr Wane having as many selections probables on his desktop to choose from and all of his headaches stemming from who to leave out.

I think you sum it up quite well with "England have some serious problems with quality and squad depth" and that is not being defeatist it is being a realist, at professional and administrative level the sport has only itself to blame, we have produced far to few player's of the right quality for years, so when it comes to international selection this is the realisation of the situation.

I'm sure there will be a whole new thread on this (again) but for me one of the big problems with a lack of depth is the fact that every SL club can have 7 overseas players and the Championship cubs its a complete free for all. Even a small change by lowering the limit to 5 would make a huge difference. An extra 24 Brits being able to show what they can do every week in SL would be a massive benefit to the international coach.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Yes, you can just imagine Waney hunched over his laptop, eagerly awaiting The Daddy's picks.

Surely he would never pick 8 of the London Bronco's team would he, and Eccles elevated to international assistant coach?

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

I'm sure there will be a whole new thread on this (again) but for me one of the big problems with a lack of depth is the fact that every SL club can have 7 overseas players and the Championship cubs its a complete free for all. Even a small change by lowering the limit to 5 would make a huge difference. An extra 24 Brits being able to show what they can do every week in SL would be a massive benefit to the international coach.

 But that is a "catch 22" situation Toppy in that we have so many overseas quota spots allowed, if as I intimated the sport had not been as negligent in its ability to produce player's we would not have the necessity to employ so many from the southern hemisphere.

Lots of people have been critical of my club with how they have approached this season with its recruitment and even Fev to a certain extent but if you look at Fev's roster they have had to go for expierenced (a nice way of saying aged) player's, Leigh would have had to do the same the shelves were bare when Leigh started the quest to put a squad together, all because as a sport we do not produce enough player's, and this in turn goes up the chain to SL, then up again to International Selection.

[OMEGA]

Play a head to head trial match
These line ups might be interesting if everyone was fit and available

Tomkins Vs Price

Makinson Vs Johnston

Percival Vs Newman

Farnworth Vs Wardle

Burgess Vs Young

Williams Vs Widdop

Lomax Vs Lewis

Thompson Vs Walmsley

Radley Vs Clark

Hill Vs Oledski

Watkins Vs Batchelor

Farrell Vs Whitehead

Knowles Vs Bateman

OTHERS TO BE CONSIDERED

McMeekin, T Burgess, Lees, Murphy, Dodd, Ashton, 

Edited September 6, 2022 by OMEGA

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

This is the classic pick players on form or reputation argument.

For me Marshall & Murphy have been the 2 best left wingers in SL this year, plenty of pace, clinical finishers and match winners for their clubs. Both thoroughly deserve to be in the squad and a chance as a starting winger. Similar for Batchelor, I thought he was Saints best forward in last years GF and he's continued that form in 2022. Its not that he's just had a few outstanding games, he's been consistently good all year

I think it's a year too soon for Murphy - who I LOVE the look of. Agree 100 per cent with everything else you say, Tops.

Edited September 6, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[M j M]

Newman isn't gone for the season. If and when Leeds make the Grand Final he may be back for it.

[bobbruce]

6 hours ago, V02 said:

Why do you think that you have it right and all the England/GB coaches have it wrong?

Because form is often short-hand for "hype and scores tries, particularly flashy ones". Remember the Greg Eden for England arguments?

Don’t get me wrong we have very little chance of winning it but if we go in with Tomkins at fullback,Hall on the wing,Bateman and whitehead in the second row,Clarke at hooker and Williams at half back then our chances would drop dramatically. 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, M j M said:

Newman isn't gone for the season. If and when Leeds make the Grand Final he may be back for it.

Leeds season ends next weekend - so yeah Newman is gone for the season 

[StandOffHalf]

2 hours ago, OMEGA said:

Play a head to head trial match
These line ups might be interesting if everyone was fit and available

Tomkins Vs Price

Makinson Vs Johnston

Percival Vs Newman

Farnworth Vs Wardle

Burgess Vs Young

Williams Vs Widdop

Lomax Vs Lewis

Thompson Vs Walmsley

Radley Vs Clark

Hill Vs Oledski

Watkins Vs Batchelor

Farrell Vs Whitehead

Knowles Vs Bateman

OTHERS TO BE CONSIDERED

McMeekin, T Burgess, Lees, Murphy, Dodd, Ashton, 

Pryce over Welsby made me laugh, as did Hill over Burgess.

Hill's having a very good season but he's not going to the WC - unless there's a big injury pile-up.

[OMEGA]

4 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Pryce over Welsby made me laugh, as did Hill over Burgess.

Hill's having a very good season but he's not going to the WC - unless there's a big injury pile-up.

If you look at the teams it’s pretty much  East V West of Pennines hence no Welsby or Burgess

Edited September 6, 2022 by OMEGA

[StandOffHalf]

4 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

If you look at the teams it’s pretty much  East V West of Pennines hence no Welsby or Burgess

Ah, I didn't twig that.

[DimmestStar]

When England commence their world cup campaign the wingers will be Makinson and Ryan Hall.

[GeordieSaint]

7 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

How do you know they don't have the ability to step up - they haven't been given the chance ?

People were saying that Batchelor was just a squad filler when he joined Saints as he wasn't good enough to become a regular starter - 2 Yrs later look at him now, one of the best performing players at the club.

Marshall doesn’t have the size. He’s been great for his club; a great finisher. But IMO he doesn’t carry the ball strong enough (in comparison to Makinson for example) to compete at the next level and give the team platform at the start of sets. Both elements are required against the best in the world: finishing and ball carrying abilities in contact. 

I am unsure on if Batchelor has the ability to step up - he’s an excellent SL player but does he have the mongrel and strike ability to play against the best second rowers in the world? He’d likely be my 4th choice second row in the squad though, as in his case, you are right and we wouldn’t know unless he is tested.

[meast]

I can't believe people are suggesting Murphy should be in the England world cup squad, 6 months after making his first team debut for a side that's struggled most of the season.

The lad has some great potential, like many others in the game but ready for a world cup, already?

What is the obsession RL fans have with wanting to fast track good young players with potential into the national side after a few good games?

Remember Kevin Penny??

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, DimmestStar said:

When England commence their world cup campaign the wingers will be Makinson and Ryan Hall.

I believe you will be 50% correct, and there is no way Makinson will be left out.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, meast said:

What is the obsession RL fans have with wanting to fast track good young players with potential into the national side after a few good games?

Remember Kevin Penny??

I will throw two other names into the mix for you Billy Boston and Alex Murphy, both had not yet acheived the reputation and standing as being greats of the game and subsequently 'Hall of Fame' members when first selected for international honours.

[bobbruce]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

I will throw two other names into the mix for you Billy Boston and Alex Murphy, both had not yet acheived the reputation and standing as being greats of the game and subsequently 'Hall of Fame' members when first selected for international honours.

I think Sculthorpe and Morley were thrown in together in a test match. When there were more senior players available and both were superb.