IMG - Vote on Wednesday

[hunsletgreenandgold]

3 minutes ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

If loop fixtures are gone, what’s replacing them?

Nothing hopefully - from a league fixtures sense. 14 teams is the magic number + challenge cup should see most sides playing around 28 games per season on average. Top teams/players obviously more when you consider play offs/international fixtures. 

[Griff]

5 minutes ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

If loop fixtures are gone, what’s replacing them?

A close season lasting until March, I hope.

[Agbrigg]

Just now, JM2010 said:

I've only read the last 2 pages of this thread so am not sure what's been proposed. Are they proposing that some clubs will be exempt from relegation but others aren't?

You don't know what's proposed, don't worry because anyone who says they do are liars. The whole report is Bull. We have well known posters who I respect already arguing and discussing league structures and grading and yet no one even knows what the grades are. Smoke and mirrors ,it's all corporate con and when it comes down to it the usual suspects at the end of the day will be dabbling with the game as they always have done

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Barley Mow said:

I assume both of those would be Cat B clubs though and at risk of dropping to the 2nd tier at the end of any individual season for any number of reasons - they'd consequently find it more difficult to recruit and attract sponsors/investors.

The cynic in me would suggest they are trying to weed out the weak from the strong in that respect.

If you are a B, have support and the potential to have the funds to build, I suspect your place in super league will be supported in this system.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its only a sport anyone wants to watch when the businesses are relatively equal Dave. That is how professional sport works.

It's a sport. All these caveats are not linked to anything anyone has said. 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

No Tommy they take the kids from those clubs, Wiggin,Saints and Wire have had a fair share of both Leigh Miners and East lads they don't put anything back.

Do they not? Do neither of those community clubs participate in Super League club managed events?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Dave T said:

It's a sport. All these caveats are not linked to anything anyone has said. 

They're upset because the result on field is not the sole arbiter of who is in what competition. That is a fundamental distinction from the initial post I replied to about what "sport" is.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Nothing hopefully - from a league fixtures sense. 14 teams is the magic number + challenge cup should see most sides playing around 28 games per season on average. Top teams/players obviously more when you consider play offs/international fixtures. 

We are only getting to 14 teams when we have 12+ Grade A teams. On the plan that is 20??

[Barley Mow]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The cynic in me would suggest they are trying to weed out the weak from the strong in that respect.

If you are a B, have support and the potential to have the funds to build, I suspect your place in super league will be supported in this system.

I think it could go either way. There is a big risk of perhaps adding the odd club to the Cat A group, but ending up with a huge gap (on and off field) to the remaining Cat B's.

[Bolton Leyther]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That's because the overall business (ie Super League Europe) needs its strongest assets in to keep its own aims and objectives. It isn't in a position to lose a Leeds, Wigan, Wire, Saints etc.

Which is all very well. But the decision to exempt them from the consequences of failure, while the consequences remain applicable to the remaining clubs, results in a negative impact on the integrity and  competitiveness of the competition, the existence of which you seem to be denying. 

 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, ShropshireBull said:

But how can you build with the axe over your head every season. What sponsorship deals long term or long term plan can be made with that, it´s absurd. 

Maybe it won't be every season, maybe it will be based on improvements taking place (for example Cas actually building a ground). You can't just keep saying "we will do this" now, other clubs can overtake you.

[Harry Stottle]

42 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

This isn't sport Harry, its business.

Ah right now I understand, all these different emotions I have expierenced in a lifetime being involved in this 'buisness' have just been figments of the imagination, A little like your spat on these pages after the Grand Final Tommy?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Bolton Leyther said:

Which is all very well. But the decision to exempt them from the consequences of failure, while the consequences remain applicable to the remaining clubs, results in a negative impact on the integrity and  competitiveness of the competition, the existence of which you seem to be denying. 

The Bs can't just be relegated because of results either, so the integrity isn't affected in that way.

[Jughead]

Can an A become a B? There’s nothing on that in this release. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

Ah right now I understand, all these different emotions I have expierenced in a lifetime being involved in this 'buisness' have just been figments of the imagination, A little like your spat on these pages after the Grand Final Tommy?

Saints and Leeds are comparable. Arguably Leigh are close to that bracket too, certainly more so than most.

As you have seen this year H, thumping teams who have no hope of beating you isn't fun for anyone.

[Harry Stottle]

45 minutes ago, Live after death said:

They are then in poke position for their own destiny 

Correct, some will definitely get shafted.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

9 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Well I hope you are right, because if I had paid an organisation and then got handed something like this, I would have told them where to shove their invoice. 

For instance cat AB or C . Not one single suggestion as to their respective merit. In other words they come up with this plan and then say, you decide what they mean, who qualifies, appeals proceeded etc etc etc.  

It's just garbage 

Whilst this particular aspect of what IMG have done very much comes across as a consultancy firm coming in and stacking up a load of recommendations and saying 'now off you pop to fix it all' - this relationship is somewhat different. It's a 12 year strategical partnership - both the RFL/SL and IMG recognise this has to be a longer process, possibly with slight iterations as the years go by. But I do believe this is the right approach when trying to enact long term change. I'd be concerned as you are if this was just handed over to the RFL/SL to flesh out the finer details. 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They're upset because the result on field is not the sole arbiter of who is in what competition. That is a fundamental distinction from the initial post I replied to about what "sport" is.

They just have a different preference to you. Yours isnt right and theirs wrong. 

It is business now but we have relegation decided by on-field performance. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Jughead said:

Can an A become a B? There’s nothing on that in this release. 

Good point, I'm not sure. Perhaps that will make A more difficult to achieve.

I suppose the clubs who don't own their own grounds or haven't got long leases would be most vulnerable to this. 

[Dave T]

Just now, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Whilst this particular aspect of what IMG have done very much comes across as a consultancy firm coming in and stacking up a load of recommendations and saying 'now off you pop to fix it all' - this relationship is somewhat different. It's a 12 year strategical partnership - both the RFL/SL and IMG recognise this has to be a longer process, possibly with slight iterations as the years go by. But I do believe this is the right approach when trying to enact long term change. I'd be concerned as you are if this was just handed over to the RFL/SL to flesh out the finer details. 

Yes, this is the difference. 

They are not saying "This is what YOU should do", they are saying "This is what WE should do". 

That is an important difference. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Can an A become a B? There’s nothing on that in this release. 

 

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Good point, I'm not sure. Perhaps that will make A more difficult to achieve.

I suppose the clubs who don't own their own grounds or haven't got long leases would be most vulnerable to this. 

I thought I read this was an annual assessment, which suggests they can change. 

In fact they have to be able to change, otherwise Bradford would still be an A! 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I think it could go either way. There is a big risk of perhaps adding the odd club to the Cat A group, but ending up with a huge gap (on and off field) to the remaining Cat B's.

I think again perhaps that is the aim? Medium term at least.

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

 

I thought I read this was an annual assessment, which suggests they can change. 

In fact they have to be able to change, otherwise Bradford would still be an A! 

Ah, I didn’t read it as all clubs to be assessed, just those who are a B but there should be some kind of assessment point. 

[Barley Mow]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I think again perhaps that is the aim? Medium term at least.

The suggestion was that the aim is to pull as many clubs as possible up to Cat A (and they don't seem to be looking beyond medium term).

[Dunbar]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They're upset because the result on field is not the sole arbiter of who is in what competition. That is a fundamental distinction from the initial post I replied to about what "sport" is.

I don't mind if a well thought out strategy on business performance is the criteria to be in the top tier (franchising).

I also don't mind if performance on the pitch is the criteria to be in the top tier (P&R).

But to mix the two up at the same time as in this model doesn't feel fair to me.  It ringfences some teams from the consequences of poor on-field performances and not others. 

Business may not be fair, but sport is supposed to be.