RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Guest]

Given the heartlands can't be bothered to turn up to the CC final or the SL final

Are the poor attendances any surprise?

[shaun mc]

Not really an issue but it adds to the wierdness.....

The standing tickets I bought for the West Terrace at Warrington last night had a row number and a seat number when printed out!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, shaun mc said:

Not really an issue but it adds to the wierdness.....

The standing tickets I bought for the West Terrace at Warrington last night had a row number and a seat number when printed out!

I had the same at Kingston Park.

Maybe the system they use has to allocate a row and seat because it is usually used for arenas and there is no default to general standing.

[GUBRATS]

15 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

This won’t shock anyone but IMO the attendance figures are inflated.

Attendances figures aren’t head counts of course - they are sales figures - but I was at Ireland vs Lebanon on Sunday and there was absolutely no way on God’s Earth it was 6k+. Maybe 3-4K. 

But on the whole it’s a good World Cup and it’s only just getting started. Not writing it off as a failure by any means. 

Being regulars at the LSV we had it down as 4,300 ish , maybe 4,500 at a push 

[GUBRATS]

My son commented on the ticketing website as being " rubbish " and highly confusing , in the past he has purchased tickets , transport and accommodation for games as far flung as Yekaterinburg for the football WC in Russia without problems 

[gingerjon]

Ticket price comparison.

Women's football again.

Just had an email confirming England v Brazil next April at Wembley.

Normally there are four categories. England - USA went £10/£20/£30/£40 with £5 concessions in each area.

For this one, the prices will start at £15. They are, as ever these days, expecting a sell out.

EDIT

Meant to add, seeing a *lot* of pushback about cricket prices for next summer and have just been sent a reminder from Southampton that I can still buy tickets in their priority window for an ODI there next year. That's not happened before - they've pretty much always sold out before general sale becomes possible.

Edited October 26, 2022 by gingerjon

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, shaun mc said:

Not really an issue but it adds to the wierdness.....

The standing tickets I bought for the West Terrace at Warrington last night had a row number and a seat number when printed out!

 

2 hours ago, Leonard said:

I had the same at Kingston Park.

Maybe the system they use has to allocate a row and seat because it is usually used for arenas and there is no default to general standing.

I think that's right, I think it's just a counting system. 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Leonard said:

Given the heartlands can't be bothered to turn up to the CC final or the SL final

Are the poor attendances any surprise?

What does this even mean? 

[Madrileño]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They are, as ever these days, expecting a sell out.

they've pretty much always sold out before general sale becomes possible

Both these examples really compound what has gone wrong with the RLWC. 

We had a full year extra to assess where sales were at, and ramp up a campaign to get stadia filled up. 

We have completely failed to do it.

I HATE using union as an example, but in 1999 the union world cup was unrecognisable from its current size. Tickets were freely available for pool games, and South Africa and Scotland both played in front of 4 figure crowds for blow out matches. Games between minnows like Spain and Uraguay were easy to get tickets for as well.

4 years later, (2003) that had completely changed. Australia hosted, and they sold out a lot of stadia, and games between minnows like Namibia and Romania pulled 15000 in Tasmania, an area where no rugby is played.  

The way they did it was fairly simple. They allocated each host city a team and pushed the city to adopt that team, and get out and support them. (Like tasmanians with Namibia). On the back of that 2003 competition, union's world cup has become a tourism behemoth with people booking up years in advance. 

We have had 20 years to copy this model, and repeatedly fail to do so (Australia 2017) or do so in a completely half assed manner. 

Is it really that hard to get 9/10,000 people into Warrington's nice stadium to watch the Kiwis, for example? (Warrington has 200,000 people in it, and there is a massive NZ population in the UK, mainly around London. The Kiwis are one of the best teams known the world). 

[pahars]

16 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Both these examples really compound what has gone wrong with the RLWC. 

We had a full year extra to assess where sales were at, and ramp up a campaign to get stadia filled up. 

We have completely failed to do it.

I HATE using union as an example, but in 1999 the union world cup was unrecognisable from its current size. Tickets were freely available for pool games, and South Africa and Scotland both played in front of 4 figure crowds for blow out matches. Games between minnows like Spain and Uraguay were easy to get tickets for as well.

4 years later, (2003) that had completely changed. Australia hosted, and they sold out a lot of stadia, and games between minnows like Namibia and Romania pulled 15000 in Tasmania, an area where no rugby is played.  

The way they did it was fairly simple. They allocated each host city a team and pushed the city to adopt that team, and get out and support them. (Like tasmanians with Namibia). On the back of that 2003 competition, union's world cup has become a tourism behemoth with people booking up years in advance. 

We have had 20 years to copy this model, and repeatedly fail to do so (Australia 2017) or do so in a completely half assed manner. 

Is it really that hard to get 9/10,000 people into Warrington's nice stadium to watch the Kiwis, for example? (Warrington has 200,000 people in it, and there is a massive NZ population in the UK, mainly around London. The Kiwis are one of the best teams known the world). 

They did (kind of) do that in 2013, PNG had Craven park for two games and got two 7k ish crowds, Fiji highlighting local connections in Rochdale got nearly 9k. 
 

 

[Madrileño]

1 minute ago, pahars said:

They did (kind of) do that in 2013, PNG had Craven park for two games and got two 7k ish crowds, Fiji highlighting local connections in Rochdale got nearly 9k. 
 

 

This is what I meant by half assed. We have (kind of ) done it, but neither stuck with it, nor really pushed it.

[gingerjon]

27 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

I HATE using union as an example, but in 1999 the union world cup was unrecognisable from its current size.

1999: 1.5m watched at an average attendance of 38,108

2003: 1.837m watched at an average attendance of 38,282

...

2019: 1.69m watched at an average attendance of 37,745

Looks pretty recognisable.

[pahars]

8 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

This is what I meant by half assed. We have (kind of ) done it, but neither stuck with it, nor really pushed it.

Yeah that’s true. I forgot about Scotland’s two 7k + games in Workington and I guess the almost accidental 7k in Bristol somewhat fits in.
 

I think it was just overconfidence this time. The previous tournaments sub 10k crowds weren’t seen as important but a few of them would have boosted the average and not saturated the north west. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by pahars

[N2022]

1 hour ago, Madrileño said:

Both these examples really compound what has gone wrong with the RLWC. 

We had a full year extra to assess where sales were at, and ramp up a campaign to get stadia filled up. 

We have completely failed to do it.

I HATE using union as an example, but in 1999 the union world cup was unrecognisable from its current size. Tickets were freely available for pool games, and South Africa and Scotland both played in front of 4 figure crowds for blow out matches. Games between minnows like Spain and Uraguay were easy to get tickets for as well.

4 years later, (2003) that had completely changed. Australia hosted, and they sold out a lot of stadia, and games between minnows like Namibia and Romania pulled 15000 in Tasmania, an area where no rugby is played.  

The way they did it was fairly simple. They allocated each host city a team and pushed the city to adopt that team, and get out and support them. (Like tasmanians with Namibia). On the back of that 2003 competition, union's world cup has become a tourism behemoth with people booking up years in advance. 

We have had 20 years to copy this model, and repeatedly fail to do so (Australia 2017) or do so in a completely half assed manner. 

Is it really that hard to get 9/10,000 people into Warrington's nice stadium to watch the Kiwis, for example? (Warrington has 200,000 people in it, and there is a massive NZ population in the UK, mainly around London. The Kiwis are one of the best teams known the world). 

Lots of sense in what you've said, but the Warrington example shows the issue. The NZ community are in London and Warrington's really quite a way from there. If they put the game in/near London, they'd have nearly 10,000,000 other people within an hour or so too. Instead they choose Warrington, and the problem is that league regulars get their fill (and pay their share) in the club season, and have several RLWC games to pick from on their doorstep.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

1999: 1.5m watched at an average attendance of 38,108

2003: 1.837m watched at an average attendance of 38,282

...

2019: 1.69m watched at an average attendance of 37,745

Looks pretty recognisable.

How about TV viewers? If you look at Mexico 86 and Italia 90 many of the crowds were woeful, but it didn’t detract from them being great tournaments. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Eddie

[N2022]

One other point related to attendance is the effort that goes into making the day a memorable experience, and also the perception that something more than 'just' a 13 v 13 game has been provided/considered. On this note, I don't know how other people find the post-game surveys. Whilst I appreciate there's little time for them to process the returns and make any real improvements for RLWC 2021 within the constraints of what has already been planned, I do feel (having attended two games so far) that they make very little attempt to measure fan satisfaction among those attending. From what I can remember there's no scale on which you score 'comfort', 'view', 'value', 'food and drink', 'stewarding', but rather quite a general what could we have improved box and then 'did the team you were rooting for  / supporting win?' When I go to cricket a few times a year, the survey is much more detailed, so probably more useful and makes me feel consulted anyway.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

1999: 1.5m watched at an average attendance of 38,108

2003: 1.837m watched at an average attendance of 38,282

...

2019: 1.69m watched at an average attendance of 37,745

Looks pretty recognisable.

That last figure was in Japan though!

[gingerjon]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That last figure was in Japan though!

Union powerhouse now thanks to decades of kind support is, I believe, the troll narrative.

[gingerjon]

19 minutes ago, Eddie said:

How about TV viewers? If you look at Mexico 86 and Italia 90 many of the crowds were woeful, but it didn’t detract from them being great tournaments. 

Absolutely no idea, TBH.

it’s never massive because only England is a real TV draw.

[N2022]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

That last figure was in Japan though!

And that was with just one host nation, where 1999 had Eng, Sco, Wal, Ire, Fra all play their group games at home. 

[Madrileño]

50 minutes ago, N2022 said:

The NZ community are in London and Warrington's really quite a way from there. If they put the game in/near London, they'd have nearly 10,000,000 other people within an hour or so too. Instead they choose Warrington, 

Well... if the all blacks (who come every single year) played in Manchester, what would the crowd be?

The Kiwis come once in 4 years. Could we really not pull in more NZ fans?

[N2022]

2 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Well... if the all blacks (who come every single year) played in Manchester, what would the crowd be?

The Kiwis come once in 4 years. Could we really not pull in more NZ fans?

Union is dominant code for NZ. NZ people I know routinely watch / talk union, but seem to show little interest in RL, so if we take it most of their expats are London-based, I doubt they'd travel for about 4 hours each way, nearly £100 of fuel or goodness only knows what rail fare and changes of train to get to a game in a code that holds less appeal for them. All Blacks are a global brand and people will turn out in force to watch them - Kiwis a very strong RL side, not the same.

[thirteenthman]

7 hours ago, redjonn said:

assuming you have contacted RLWC what have they said... otherwise we are all guessing

I contacted the RLWC team, and they are aware of the issue with the two tickets for the final. Other than that, I've heard no more.

However, I have to say kudos to the RLWC team, as I emailed a complaint about the so called category A seats we had last night on the front row at the HJ, where the view was blocked by the players and staff, stewards and assorted security men, and Jenna Brooks watching a screen (and doing little else) at pitch side. They have apologised for this and given us complimentary tickets for the QF. Fair play to them. 

[N2022]

3 minutes ago, thirteenthman said:

I contacted the RLWC team, and they are aware of the issue with the two tickets for the final. Other than that, I've heard no more.

However, I have to say kudos to the RLWC team, as I emailed a complaint about the so called category A seats we had last night on the front row at the HJ, where the view was blocked by the players and staff, stewards and assorted security men, and Jenna Brooks watching a screen (and doing little else) at pitch side. They have apologised for this and given us complimentary tickets for the QF. Fair play to them. 

Bet they are front row tickets as well ...

[thirteenthman]

4 minutes ago, N2022 said:

Bet they are front row tickets as well ...

Row Z I think