Leigh changing their name? Bored journo doing a rumour?

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Stuff Smith said:

https://www.mccmktg.co.uk/services

Scroll down to Creative Support.

They're "Branding Veterans". And no, they don't mean attacking old people with a hot piece of iron...

"MCCM are branding veterans. Our team have generated creative solutions through graphic, illustration and visual content support for hundreds of partners.

Each project needs a different approach, that is why we practice flexibility; hours and budget, to get the best result."

Okay, hands up then, I skimmed it and didn't catch that.

[DI Keith Fowler]

At what point do we wildly speculate that Derek is a furry? Now, at this point. 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Okay, hands up then, I skimmed it and didn't catch that.

I would imagine they outsource the branding or use freelancers as they don’t have a team page, nothing wrong with that at all though.

They say they didn’t have anything to do with the badge, well they should be honest with their client and tell them it isn’t for for purpose.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

MCCM's CEO just happens to be the chairman of Leigh Athletic FC who are based at LSV.

Incidentally it appears he also was involved in Bongos Bingo a few years ago - which should be familiar to any University aged folk!

Yeah so i've looked into Rich Renda a little more and the staff in general. It's now clear that if this looks like some teenager's BTec creative media presentation....it's because it genuinely might be! If the average age (excluding Rich) of the staff at that place is over 20 i'll be shocked. This isn't about MCCM anyway, how much they actually did of all this and what criteria they were given is very unclear - this is all on Mr Sundeck

[gingerjon]

Just now, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Yeah so i've looked into Rich Renda a little more and the staff in general. It's now clear that if this looks like some teenager's BTec creative media presentation....it's because it genuinely might be! If the average age (excluding Rich) of the staff at that place is over 20 i'll be shocked. This isn't about MCCM anyway, how much they actually did of all this and what criteria they were given is very unclear - this is all on Mr Sundeck

And this is where real managers and real leaders have a duty of care to the staff.

This is obviously a Degsy ego trip.

None of the youngsters - and it does look like they're young - deserve to be thrown under a bus because they've done something they're not prepared for and which could never have worked anyway, all in the spotlight of a national, professional sport.

And that Facebook post shows whoever is doing that doesn't quite get how to protect those staff.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I would imagine they outsource the branding or use freelancers as they don’t have a team page, nothing wrong with that at all though.

That would make sense. I had the dubious pleasure of leading the rebrand of the organisation I work for a few years ago (the second I've been involved in) and it was a mix of places that had everything in house to those who had different bits outsourced.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

And this is where real managers and real leaders have a duty of care to the staff.

This is obviously a Degsy ego trip.

None of the youngsters - and it does look like they're young - deserve to be thrown under a bus because they've done something they're not prepared for and which could never have worked anyway, all in the spotlight of a national, professional sport.

And that Facebook post shows whoever is doing that doesn't quite get how to protect those staff.

Nail.Head.Hit

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Honor James said:

Not fifteen minutes ago, I finished reading an actual, 'dyed-in-the-paper' copy of the introductory, Leigh Leopards brochure, and to me it looks great; high-quality item, and the new name (Leopards replacing Centurions) great.

More modern for a start.  Centurions are ancient history.  How many people nowadays would automatically think, "Centurions - really snappy name!" 

Whereas sports clubs using the names of fast, fierce or fascinating animals abound.

I'm not sure many people have a massive issue with the name.. its the execution and quality of the rest of it that's the problem.. and it overshadows all the good things that are happening.

The logo is, well, amateurish is kind. If I paid for someone to brand one of our products and they came up with that i would kick them out of the office, I can do that sort of level on my own with my laptop! And the idea of leopard print on a shirt, fine go for it in moderation (not all shirts are to everyones taste) but a picture of a bloody leopards backside... I mean come on!!

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by RP London

[Simon Hall]

13 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

I'm graphic designer, and in pure design terms it's a nice bit of work

I'm a graphic designer and in pure design terms it's shabba. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, RP London said:

a picture of a bloody leopards backside... 

Be fair.

There is no blood on the leopard's bum.

[Kirmonds pouch]

13 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I’d be interested to know what you think is nice about it design wise, as in my professional opinion it’s absolutely dreadful, it’s literally got nothing good about it.

Just to be clear I'm talking about the badge not the shirt, I'd rather not comment on that.

As a real graphic designer of some years I can tell you that's a silly statement and as such I doubt you have a professional opinion, probably a student. Design is subjective and that's the skill, knowing what fits what is more important than your own inflated opinion on what you think is 'good design'.

So as I painstakingly explained, there are products that it would work well on IMO, why suggest otherwise, it's quite pretty. What I made very clear though is that RL is not one of them. You can't just dismiss something as poor design because you just don't like it, it's a science like anything else, so you have to give valid reasons. I've given mine and I'm correct, as I have been 90% of the time over a hugely successful forty year career.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Kirmonds pouch

[Damien]

I wouldn't like to give Degsy ideas but:

 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Be fair.

There is no blood on the leopard's bum.

Yes, apologies, there is enough bad about this I didn't need to make it worse.. 

The bloody eyes on the logo on the other hand...

[hunsletgreenandgold]

4 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Well as a real graphic designer of some years I can tell you that's a silly statement and as such I doubt you have a professional opinion, probably a student. Design is subjective and that's the skill, knowing what fits what is more important than your own inflated opinion on what you think is 'good design'.

So as I painstakingly explained, there are products that it would work well on IMO, why suggest otherwise, it's quite pretty. What I made very clear though is that RL is not one of them. You can't just dismiss something as poor design because you just don't like it, it's a science like anything else, so you have to give valid reasons. I've given mine and I'm correct, as I have been 90% of the time over a hugely successful forty year career.

Ah you're a 'real' graphic designer - why didn't you say that in the first place?! Back in your box lads, we've got a real one here. 

Edited October 21, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Well as a real graphic designer of some years I can tell you that's a silly statement and as such I doubt you have a professional opinion, probably a student. Design is subjective and that's the skill, knowing what fits what is more important than your own inflated opinion on what you think is 'good design'.

So as I painstakingly explained, there are products that it would work well on IMO, why suggest otherwise, it's quite pretty. What I made very clear though is that RL is not one of them. You can't just dismiss something as poor design because you just don't like it, it's a science like anything else, so you have to give valid reasons. I've given mine and I'm correct, as I have been 90% of the time over a hugely successful forty year career.

But surely in design terms the design must be fit for the purpose for which it is designed. Therefore if your reasoning is that if it had been designed as the logo for something else it would have been fine then it de facto means it's a poor design because its not been designed for those things.  

You know, knowing what fits what.

Edited October 21, 2022 by RP London

[Damien]

Just now, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Ah you're a 'real' graphic designer - why didn't you say that in the first place?! Back in your box lads we've got a real one here. 

I've never met a graphic designer in my life but it seems like they are like buses, you wait to meet one then one after another comes along.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Just to be clear I'm talking about the badge not the shirt, I'd rather not comment on that.

As a real graphic designer of some years I can tell you that's a silly statement and as such I doubt you have a professional opinion, probably a student. Design is subjective and that's the skill, knowing what fits what is more important than your own inflated opinion on what you think is 'good design'.

So as I painstakingly explained, there are products that it would work well on IMO, why suggest otherwise, it's quite pretty. What I made very clear though is that RL is not one of them. You can't just dismiss something as poor design because you just don't like it, it's a science like anything else, so you have to give valid reasons. I've given mine and I'm correct, as I have been 90% of the time over a hugely successful forty year career.

I own a Branding agency and have been in the industry 25 years.

Im simply asking you what about that logo design, technically, and subjectively is ‘good’. If one of my designers brought that to me to give to the client i would be very disappointed and it wouldn’t go near a client.

You may think it sounds arrogant, but im not saying everything we produce is perfect but i try to make sure whatever we do is done with care and is thought through.

And you say y are s Graphic Designer, fine, but not all Graphic Designers are great with Branding, they aren’t the same thing.

[Gerrumonside ref]

I am a graphic designer and so is my wife!

[hunsletgreenandgold]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I've never met a graphic designer in my life but it seems like they are like buses, you wait to meet one then one after another comes along.

Was reminiscent of the RLWC online issues thread the other day - web devs for days! Ok maybe not, but I was the only 'real' one anyway so.....

Edited October 21, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold

[Gav Wilson]

10 minutes ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Just to be clear I'm talking about the badge not the shirt, I'd rather not comment on that.

As a real graphic designer of some years I can tell you that's a silly statement and as such I doubt you have a professional opinion, probably a student. Design is subjective and that's the skill, knowing what fits what is more important than your own inflated opinion on what you think is 'good design'.

So as I painstakingly explained, there are products that it would work well on IMO, why suggest otherwise, it's quite pretty. What I made very clear though is that RL is not one of them. You can't just dismiss something as poor design because you just don't like it, it's a science like anything else, so you have to give valid reasons. I've given mine and I'm correct, as I have been 90% of the time over a hugely successful forty year career.

[Chrispmartha]

5 minutes ago, RP London said:

But surely in design terms the design must be fit for the purpose for which it is designed. Therefore if your reasoning is that if it had been designed as the logo for something else it would have been fine then it de facto means it's a poor design because its not been designed for those things.  

You know, knowing what fits what.

Well, quite (although I'm not sure what purpose this design is actually fit for)

[Kirmonds pouch]

13 minutes ago, Simon Hall said:

I'm a graphic designer and in pure design terms it's shabba. 

Then you're not a very good one.

Lots of people call themselves Graphic Designers these days, especially since the advent of DTP, but they are not. They learn on the hoof or do a short course at the local adult training centre and think they are the bees knees. They  cobble together stuff in Photoshop and Illustrator using all the effects and every cliche in the book, and then sit there with a huge sense of self satisfaction at the masterpiece they think they have created, I deal with them all the time.

I politely acknowledge their effort, then when they leave my team and I quietly rectify the worst of it, we manage to do so without resorting to name calling.

I'm a bit of a rarity these days, I have a real degree from a real University, and forty years experience at the highest levels to back it up, have you?

I'm currently the UK head of design for a large American Supermarket chain (not present in the UK). We design in the UK because the quality is better. So I'm still in there battling away.

I'd happily use that Leigh badge design on an own label wine bottle, would look rather nice IMHO.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Kirmonds pouch

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

But surely in design terms the design must be fit for the purpose for which it is designed.. therefore if your reasoning is that if it had been designed as the logo for something else it would have been fine. Then it de facto means it's a poor design because its not been designed for those things.  

You know, knowing what fits what.

Yeah I was thinking exactly that. 

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Now, now fellas.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Kirmonds pouch said:

Then you're not a very good one.

Lots of people call themselves Graphic Designers these days, especially since the advent of DTP, but they are not. They learn on the hoof or do a short course at the local adult training centre and think they are the bees knees. They  cobble together stuff in Photoshop and Illustrator using all the effects and every cliche in the book, and then sit there with a huge sense of self satisfaction at the masterpiece they think they have created, I deal with them all the time.

I politely acknowledge their effort, then when they leave my team and I quietly rectify the worst of it, we manage to do so without resorting to name calling.

I have a real degree from a real University, and forty years experience at the highest levels to back it up, have you?

The people you describe in your 2nd para appear to have made the badge for Leigh Leopards (that felt weird typing!)