The Kangaroos brand has been wasted & thrown away

[thirteenthman]

9 hours ago, IM2 said:

Have to say that crowd tonight at Hudds shows how far the Kangaroos brand has fallen. Years gone by people would have turned out just to watch legends and giants of the game. Yes they are still probably the worlds best but their disregard for the international game & unwillingness to invest proper time and energy into has led to this. A state v state game is seen as their be all and end all. Yes its great and I love it but it means they turn up for the sake of it. In many ways the game should move on without them. It didnt in the past as they were a massive draw, the biggest! well tonight proves that wrong. shame really. 

In years gone by, people turned out in big numbers to watch England or GB play the Aussies. Internationals played in this country featuring Australia and other nations have never been big crowd pullers (apart from 4N or 3N finals where a lot of poeple might have booked hoping to see England play). 

[Anita Bath]

25 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

So, a couple of points.  Firstly, a pass by Billy Slater is hardly looking at the big picture.  And while Covid has had disruptive effects on all sports, the Wallabies played at least 20 tests in between the Kangaroos last game in 2019 and the first game at this world cup.  It is only an unsurmountable task if you let it be unsurmountable.

Where I do agree with you is the competitive aspect of international Rugby League.  But the fact of the matter is, you don't make things more competitive by doing less of it.  You invest time and energy into developing the international game and giving countries the best chance of success.  And you are patient, knowing that things don't change overnight.

The macro picture for international league is this.

1. The launch of Super League and summer Rugby League in the Northern Hemisphere.  This changed the dynamic of international Rugby League overnight as many said that the traditional Kangaroo, Kiwi and Great Britain tours were no longer possible as the seasons in the NH and SH ran concurrently.  This was not true of course.  You can run tours any time you want, but you can't if the value of what you want to achieve cannot overcome the interests of those who may be negatively effected in the short term.

2.  Abandoning winning formulae.  We used tri-nations and four-nations to replace the internationals that typically came from tours.  In the most part, these were competitive and successful. And in typical Rugby League fashion, dropped. 

3. The rise of State of Origin.  State of Origin and international Rugby League sat happily side by side through the 80's and 90's.  I don't blame the Australian sporting public for looking internally for competitive and regular representative fixtures.  But it then became branded as the highest level in Rugby League (and it is commercially valuable for the Australian Rugby League leaders to keep it this way).  It was hailed as the highest level of Rugby League even in years where New Zealand were beating Australia in Tri Nations or World Cup finals.  Now, representative decisions in Australia always start with Origin first and foremost.

Unlike many posts on here, I am not blaming anyone.  I am blaming the attitude that prevails our sport where the big picture is always sacrificed for what suits the individual nation, state or club.  We see other sports commit to international fixtures during the regular season.  Sometimes begrudgingly (FIFA World Cup) and sometimes because the value of the international game can be clearly seen by all parties (Cricket, RU).  Rugby League cannot see this.

Cricket is struggling to maintain an international game….SA recently pulled out of a one day series that prevents them automatically qualifying for the next world cup in order to promote another travelling circus of franchises. The ICC bow to every whim of the IPL. Top players retire from international cricket in orderto make millions from global franchises.

Next seasons test matches in England are crammed into the first half of the summer to accommodate more franchise ‘cricket’ .

And apart from a tribal sell out for India v Pakistan at MCG the crowds forvthe T20 WC down under have been worse than for the RLWC. 

 

 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Dave W said:

This is exactly why rugby league came into being in the first place. Working men couldn't afford to take time off to play rugby and wanted recompense. The resulting schism was entirely class based. 

Yes. I know.

The same had already happened in football, of course.

[Sports Prophet]

20 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

As I say, in order to build a competitive international scene, you have to invest time and resources and be patient.

You are looking at the short term negative effects, I am talking about the long term value of having a strategy and committing to it.  These are very different. 

And, please take this is an observation, not a criticism, it is the attitude that you are displaying about the negative short term consequences effecting decides that is the problem with the sport as a whole.

The strategy is terrible and as you say and in my defence of Australia from the opening post, it may appear that I am  of the belief that Australia are blameless, which would be incorrect.

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The strategy is terrible and as you say and in my defence of Australia from the opening post, it may appear that I am  of the belief that Australia are blameless, which would be incorrect.

What strategy? I haven't defined a strategy, I have said having one is the key.

You think investing time, energy and resources into the international game and being patient enough to deliver results is actually a strategy? That is an attitude. 

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, UTK said:

 

Absolutely, and that's why the failure to make Kangaroos matches happen between 2019 and now was so disgraceful. We were on the precipice of something gamechanging and yet the opportunity has been left to wilt despite the ultimately more difficult yet in no way prohibitive circumstances.

Again I would suggest there is no coincidence that this stance was taken post-V'landys rise to chairman which funnily enough only happened 3 days before Tonga beat Australia. There was a markedly different approach between 2017 and 2019, Tongas landmark topping of the supergroup in 2017 was followed up by guaranteed games against both Australia and NZ in 2018/2019, even creating an entirely new tournament to facilitate this on an ongoing basis. Now we've thrown out their remaining consistent fixture in the mid-season test, a fixture that really began building the Tongan brand and we've yet to see what the calendar holds for them in 2023.

I don’t disagree about Australia but what about England? They’ve played two nations in this country since the 2017 final defeat. That number should be higher but they decided to bring back the GB brand at a very odd time.I know there’s some reasoning behind this that is out of their control but that’s not really good enough and rumours of New Zealand coming over again next year isn’t the most appetising, either. 

Tonga’s rise, as well as the improvement in PNG and the side Samoa can put out on the field, hasn’t been capitalised on by England, either. Many say Tonga v England was one of their favourite games and those that were there wax lyrical about it, why haven’t we gone back for more and hit them over here? If we can’t get 60-75,000 over three games against Tonga, we’re in major trouble. 

[Gomersall]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Well, the Kangaroos would be 100% within their control if they played Kangaroos v Kangaroos II, so I will give you that.

GB toured in 2019. Did the Kangaroos put their hands up to play them?

[Sports Prophet]

19 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

What strategy? I haven't defined a strategy, I have said having one is the key.

You think investing time, energy and resources into the international game and being patient enough to deliver results is actually a strategy? That is an attitude. 

That’s what I meant. The strategy, or lack thereof, is terrible.

[Gomersall]

2 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

No…its the harlem globetrotters effect. Having won every world cup bar one in the last 50 years (and were winning the other until that Billy Slater moment) international rugby league is not competitive.

 

They cannot sell international games at home because of that.

 

We seem to be forgetting, unlike other countries in Australia teams were relocated to bubbles away from their homes for the entire season during the pandemic.  

Remind me what the attendance was when the Wallabies pasted Namibia in the RUWC? A foregone conclusion if ever there was one.

[Anita Bath]

10 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

GB toured in 2019. Did the Kangaroos put their hands up to play them?

No idea, did GB want to play them……and on what terms? where they willing to share the risk of a loss making event or did they want the aussies to take the risk.

[Anita Bath]

1 minute ago, Gomersall said:

Remind me what the attendance was when the Wallabies pasted Namibia in the RUWC? A foregone conclusion if ever there was one.

tickets were sold in packages so to get the best prices and best seats for the best games you also locked in for the blow outs. Its called marketing…..a course the RL world cup organisers might have missed.

 

The same process used in the last month by FIFA for the womens world cup in Aus next year. You could buy ticket packages by venue knowing that the aussies would have one game there but by doing thatyou also ended up with an ireland v nigeria game. Simple really.

 

 

[Damien]

I don't buy the international game not being in Australia's control. It is and has been for quite some time. This control saw a World Cup cancelled, Denver tests sabotaged and the mid season international window scrapped. It has also seen Tonga et al not being allowed to play, having their opponents chosen for them and Pacific tests played with NRL branding.

If the NRL and Australia genuinely wanted they could easily play 3 mid season internationals, i.e a Pacific Cup and have an end of season calender every year. No one could or would stop the NRL doing that. To try and blame their failings on multiple stakeholders is disingenuous to say the least.

[Dunbar]

12 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That’s what I meant. The strategy, or lack thereof, is terrible.

We are in agreement then.

[Anita Bath]

So cancelling three weeks of the NRL schedule?

extending the season by three weeks?

playing post season internationals in november every year?

 

 

 

[Gomersall]

2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I would argue that the development of the Premier League branding and the influx of foreign stars into that league has had a damaging effect and stunted the growth of rugby league in this country (U.K.)

There’s really been nothing in comparison in Australia for the NRL to have to battle against domestically that is on the scale of the most commercially important soccer league in the world.

Theres no doubt in my mind that the Australians have done well to develop New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa etc, but the challenge here is not comparable to that faced by the RFL or Super League by the Premier League for fans and headlines.

 

IMO the development of the PI nations, especially Tonga and Samoa by Australia is overstated. The NRL need players. Simple as. More then 40% of NRL players are of PI ancestry. Until Jason Taumalolo and Andrew Fifita jumped ships the PI nations were just treading water. Also rans at WCs. The defections (for want of a better word) have made Tonga, certainly, and Samoa, hopefully, competitive with the big 3. I highly doubt that would be the case if Taumalolo and Fifita hadn’t broken the mould.

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

We keep hearing this. 

And then the Kiwis started beating them in Finals. And that changed nothing. 

And if anything Australia withdrew further from the international game. Same with the rise of Tonga and the Aussies losing to them. More jeapody, with the real possibility of defeat, and closer games hasn't seen the Aussies playing more.

[Gomersall]

28 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

No idea, did GB want to play them……and on what terms? where they willing to share the risk of a loss making event or did they want the aussies to take the risk.

You really think GB fly down under and wouldn’t want to have played Australia?

[Anita Bath]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

And if anything Australia withdrew further from the international game. Same with the rise of Tonga and the Aussies losing to them. More jeapody, with the real possibility of defeat, and closer games hasn't seen the Aussies playing more.

With a points difference of 240-18 so far I think they will feel OK about how things are going. Please dont blame the weakness of the opposition…they were the only team from 2017 semi finals to have to play another 2017 semi finalist in their group. 

Given the strength of the NRL and origin….they dont need to play a regular schedule of meaningless international to be able to turn it on every world cup as the past 50 years has proven.

 

 

 

 

[Anita Bath]

3 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

You really think GB fly down under and wouldn’t want to have played Australia?

Dont know….if they struggled against the lower ranking nations and can quite understand if if they wanted to avoid the risk of a thrashing…thay wouldnt do the game over here any good.

[rlno1]

43 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't buy the international game not being in Australia's control. It is and has been for quite some time. This control saw a World Cup cancelled, Denver tests sabotaged and the mid season international window scrapped. It has also seen Tonga et al not being allowed to play, having their opponents chosen for them and Pacific tests played with NRL branding.

If the NRL and Australia genuinely wanted they could easily play 3 mid season internationals, i.e a Pacific Cup and have an end of season calender every year. No one could or would stop the NRL doing that. To try and blame their failings on multiple stakeholders is disingenuous to say the least.

There is no doubt when the IRL was under Nigel Wood the NRL ran interference.

The NRL basically does what the broadcaster wants ie. pump up Origin and prioritise it.

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Dont know….if they struggled against the lower ranking nations and can quite understand if if they wanted to avoid the risk of a thrashing…thay wouldnt do the game over here any good.

I'll clarify for you. They specifically flew down to play Australia. Australia pulled out of that though and said they would tour England in 2020 as a sorry. 

[jacksy]

The thing is with the aussies is when they go all in, they can make things succeed and sell.

They have managed to keep SOO popular & successful even though its been pretty much one sided since 2006.

NSW have won only four out of the last 17. Is that competitive?

Yet the media, stakeholders still talk it up enough to draw crowds and revenue.

In the same period haven't the Roos lost 3 finals and got beat by Tonga? And of course they sneaked two other finals. One in golden point extra time and another by 6.

However, that's not enough for them to go all in internationally..because you know "its not competitive".

 

Edited November 5, 2022 by jacksy

[corkonian77]

Happened in Limerick  in 2013.

5,000 turned  up to Australia  v Ireland. 

99% of people  have never seen a Nrl game or State of Origin.  

Not many people  want to watch games at 8 am on a Saturday morning. 

Super  League  gets higher  profile  in Ireland. 

 

[eal]

Much depends on the media these days, and in Australia if a network isn't broadcasting an event it will get no mention whatsoever. The panel on NRL360 were suddenly talking up international rugby league once it was announced that FOX would be broadcasting the world cup. This panel containing Paul Kent who has previously said that the international game is a waste of time and that the game should just focus on the clubs.

Edited November 5, 2022 by eal

[jacksy]

I have always looked forward to and loved the GB/Eng v Aussies games.

Now i wish we would secure yearly matches against Samoa, NZ,Tonga and PNG and just leave the roos to SOO.

I think a 5 nations tournament between those teams would work.

We should stop begging the aussies to be interested.