Four Nations

[eal]

When looking past over the international calendar of rugby league in years gone by, I realized how lucky we were to have the Four Nations played annually (along with a qualification tournament) for a period of time - perhaps the only time the game has had a structured international calendar planned out more than a year in advance. I really don't comprehend how this couldn't at least be a biannual event rotating back and forth between the northern and southern hemisphere - maybe even make it a five nations with the four RLWC semifinalists plus a qualifier. Wasn't the tournament supposedly ditched for a more in-depth calendar? I guess that never happened.

[Midlands hobo]

It's annoying when you consider the international calender yawnion has. 

 

Every year: 5 games in 6 nations.

3 tests in the summer tour.

3 autumn tests.

Not including warm ups and barbarians.

 

SH similar but I think they have 6 games in the 4 nations championship 3 H&A.

 

Players regularly topping 100 caps. Puts RL to shame

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Midlands hobo

[creditwhereitsdews]

I loved the Four Nations, it was much more intense than the World Cup (which I love too) and dished up some brilliant games. Was lucky enough to attend the 2014 event in Australia and New Zealand when Ryan Hall's fingertip was the difference in us beating Australia and making the final. Ditching it made no sense, but few decisions in rugby league ever do.

[UTK]

1 hour ago, Midlands hobo said:

It's annoying when you consider the international calender yawnion has. 

 

Every year: 5 games in 6 nations.

3 tests in the summer tour.

3 autumn tests.

Not including warm ups and barbarians.

 

SH similar but I think they have 6 games in the 4 nations championship 3 H&A.

 

Players regularly topping 100 caps. Puts RL to shame

 

 

 

It's the same format we need to follow albeit scaled down due to less windows we currently have:

Regional tournament to form the base providing consistent games in each region annually for fans and broadcasters to develop a consistent local schedule - 4-5 games each year guaranteed for all nations involved in their local region:

• Oceanic Cup for Pacific
• Euros for Europe
• Americas Cup for America
• MEA Championship for Middle East

Tours to supplement this with an extra 2-3 games

• Pacific sides going to Europe and vice versa
• Lesser Europe/Americas/MEA crossing over where possible and appropriate

You could tinker with the amount of games in each but the structure is the key, every nation playing at home and against competitors within their region every single year. Build credibility of regional tournaments and the brand of each nation within their region to promote a consistent calendar of RL everywhere in the world. Secondary requirement is tours to provide variation and competitive challenges for nations by crossing between regions, supplements the core of regional tournaments to round out the calendar.

[Adelaide Tiger]

2 hours ago, Midlands hobo said:

It's annoying when you consider the international calender yawnion has. 

 

Every year: 5 games in 6 nations.

3 tests in the summer tour.

3 autumn tests.

Not including warm ups and barbarians.

 

SH similar but I think they have 6 games in the 4 nations championship 3 H&A.

Surely one of the reasons that RU play so many internationals each year is that club sides across the world accept that they will have to play games without their international players.

RU also accepts that the international game is the driver and brings in blue chip sponsors, keeps the game visible and attracts the more occasional TV viewers.

So unless such an agreement applies to all RL countries we will have to be content with an end of season tournament and maybe one international mid season.

 

[eal]

The biggest difference is that the money isn't in the international game in Rugby League, it never has been. 

[MatthewWoody]

7 hours ago, Midlands hobo said:

It's annoying when you consider the international calender yawnion has. 

 

Every year: 5 games in 6 nations.

3 tests in the summer tour.

3 autumn tests.

Not including warm ups and barbarians.

 

SH similar but I think they have 6 games in the 4 nations championship 3 H&A.

 

Players regularly topping 100 caps. Puts RL to shame

 

 

 

Yes 

That's mainly because the International game is more important than the club one in ru. Just compare the crowds...

In rl it's the opposite. 

Another reason could be that heritage players let us have more than 3-4 competitive nations and it's not easy to have them released by their clubs more than once a year. 

In rl, it's the club that decide. But they should understand a great Int game could generate more interest in the game itself and then they'd earn something in the long term. 

A solid Int calendar would make us see less players attracted by ru. 

Having a 3 windows season as they have in ru it's impossible imho (and I'd be more than happy with 2), for the reason above, but we should have at least 2. 

A 3 weeks stop for Origin+ Int window would be perfect. 

By the way, club ru doesn't stop for the 6N etc. They keep on playing, without the players involved in the Int scene. We just don't have that mentality and depth of players.

 

 

[GeordieSaint]

I yearn for competitions like the Four Nations to reappear in the calendar. Great events… and far better for the international game than tours, which are a relic that should be locked away in the past.

[WN83]

We just need certainty and a long term plan. I'd like to see Ashes series in there somewhere, even if it's every few years and we need to be looking at 4/5/6 nations or whatever in between, as well as World Cups and everything that is needed in terms of developing teams. I have very little faith it will be allowed by the NRL though and we'll continue to feed on scraps. The talk pre tournament was that we'd have a series in the UK next year but that looks to be off the table now. Haven't they pulled mid season tests next year as well? The Australian team hardly ever plays nowadays and we all dance to the NRL's tune. We can't even be confident we can go it alone without the Australian team and play teams like the Kiwis, Tonga, Samoa, PNG etc because they control those players as well and want them to be rested up in the off seasons, ready for the pre season friendlies, games that the NRL seemingly value higher than internationals. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by WN83

[Adelaide Tiger]

6 hours ago, eal said:

The biggest difference is that the money isn't in the international game in Rugby League, it never has been. 

So that means we just accept that?

IMHO the reason money is not in the international game is that as a sport we treat international RL with utter contempt.  Why should an organisation, or organisations, choose to invest in international RL when the game as a whole refuses to commit to a long term, fixed international program.

Maybe, just maybe, if SL and NRL agree to put the international game before the club game a la RU then money may flow into RL.  But fat chance of that happening.

[JM2010]

If there were regular tournaments each year at the end of the season plus 2/3 mid season internationals then I'm sure money through TV deals, spectators and sponsorship would gradually increase, especially if they get the media coverage this WC has generated.

If there were confirmed mid season tests against France and a 4/6/8 nations tournament already locked in at the end of the season I'm sure they could sell these to sponsors and TV channels on the back of the WC. I think ticket sales would be strong too

 

[crashmon]

Just having a repeating England v France international would be a start,and not mid season internationals vs made up teams...

But I guess yet again we will have 5K watching England v Combined Nations mid season,when we could have 10K in France in a France v England game

[jim_57]

4 Nations was good for its time, from memory it was discarded for something bigger and better that never actually happened.

I think the concept should be revived as a 6 Nations if it were to come back, played at least once every World Cup cycle, preferably twice with full regional tournaments the other year. I’d have Australia, NZ & England as permanents, France or PNG as auto-qualifier when hosted in their region and then 2 qualifiers.

I feel like France and PNG’s ability to host games, produce players and overall potential should be rewarded in situations like this. Tonga/Samoa/Fiji/Wales/Ireland etc would definitely take issue with that though even though 2 spots each tournament would still be up for grabs.

Round robin 6 teams would be best but 5-6 games would be a tough sell for some countries. 2 pools of 3 means some teams would travel for only 2 games, mind you they could definitely organise games in their bye weekend.

[MatthewWoody]

2 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I yearn for competitions like the Four Nations to reappear in the calendar. Great events… and far better for the international game than tours, which are a relic that should be locked away in the past.

Hmm, a good test series can be great. In both codes, I love how the teams improve week after week and "study" the opposition. See for example the last Aus v England series in ru. 

What isn't great is having "only" tours. 

We need single test matches, tours and proper tournaments imho.

With a proper calendar and knowing they'll play at least 3-4 tests vs big teams every year, players would even accept some test against low ranked nations.

 

[Just Browny]

I loved the Four Nations too and it should come back. The qualification process for the fourth nation however should be closer to the main event though so that (1) that fourth team is the one with the most momentum and (2) the public can remember how they got there.

Imagine if a Samoa-Tonga or Samoa-Fiji game mid season was the qualifier for the 4N at the end of the same year? The winner would have momentum and the mid-season game would have a bigger prize than pride etc. Unfortunately a competitive NH fourth team looks some way off.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Just Browny

[Man of Kent]

If Four Nations came back it would be Aus, NZ, Samoa and Tonga....

[MattSantos]

I like the idea of a football nations league style format, every 2 years between WCs at the end of the seasons:

Based on the below, the UK can host League 1 and 3. New Zealand could host league 2. 'Finals' to be played wherever..

League 1 - England, Aus, NZ and Samoa.

3 games. Top 2 then play a final.

Bottom plays winner of the below, with the winner in league 1 next time.

League 2 - Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, PNG.

League winner plays bottom of league 1. Bottom plays winner of League 3.

League 3 - France, Wales, Ireland, Lebanon.

 

It gives 1 format that covers all the nations playing the game and allows for nations to play at the right level with the potential to grow / drop accordingly.

 

In between the WCs and this, you can have your classic 3 match series with all the teams scheduled accordingly.

[Midlands hobo]

3 hours ago, MattSantos said:

I like the idea of a football nations league style format, every 2 years between WCs at the end of the seasons:

Based on the below, the UK can host League 1 and 3. New Zealand could host league 2. 'Finals' to be played wherever..

League 1 - England, Aus, NZ and Samoa.

3 games. Top 2 then play a final.

Bottom plays winner of the below, with the winner in league 1 next time.

League 2 - Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, PNG.

League winner plays bottom of league 1. Bottom plays winner of League 3.

League 3 - France, Wales, Ireland, Lebanon.

 

It gives 1 format that covers all the nations playing the game and allows for nations to play at the right level with the potential to grow / drop accordingly.

 

In between the WCs and this, you can have your classic 3 match series with all the teams scheduled accordingly.

Drop Lebanon for Italy or Greece.

 

The concept works have a 4 nations NZ Oz England and another. The French if not in the 4 nations drop into a european championship with Italy Ireland Wales and Scotland and a place open to Greece/Spain/Serbia on a playoff. Give every team a 4 test series after the SL GF.

[Mathius Hellwege]

7 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I yearn for competitions like the Four Nations to reappear in the calendar. Great events… and far better for the international game than tours, which are a relic that should be locked away in the past.

the always mentionen RU have both

[Londonbornirishbred]

The reality is a 4 nations featuring say this years semi-finalists would mean (with 25 man squads) 75/80 of the very best NRL players being pulled from their day jobs with their clubs.

Furthermore, even it it did happen, the blue chip sponsors and media interest would require us to sell out stadiums, something we seem abjectly poor at achieving lately.

If the NRL were to close down for a 3 week Origin window, then maybe England, Samoa, Tonga, Lebanon, Fiji and New Zealand could play a mini tournament? It would need to be somewhere like Auckland where you have a huge dispora of Pacific Island fans. Mt smart and North Harbour stadiums.

As with the 9s. The NRL would probably see an initial success and then try to take control of it and ruin it in a couple of years.

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

the always mentionen RU have both

We don’t have space in the annual calendar to do both. And where we have space, I’d rather nations play multi-team tournaments against each other to breed experience rather than England playing NZ or Australia continuously. The likes of Fiji et al need to play regularly against the best teams to continue to improve. 

[Mathius Hellwege]

Just now, GeordieSaint said:

We don’t have space in the annual calendar to do both. And where we have space, I’d rather nations play multi-team tournaments against each other to breed experience rather than England playing NZ or Australia continuously. The likes of Fiji et al need to play regularly against the best teams to continue to improve. 

The NRL right now offers four matches (and I pretend I believe them) in the non-WC years.

This would enable

1. 4N with final (like the old one ENG/NZ/AUS are automatically qualified)

2. a three-game series e.g. ENG-NZ or AUS and a fourth game against FRA/ANZAC Test respectively....the not participating Oceanic superpower would play three games against Pacific Islands Nations

3. a regional tournament with four N and a final (Oceania Cup no problem, in Europe UK is too strong and has to search for a tour in the SH)

 

You have three NON-WC-years so you could all of the three or any other combination of these variants

[MatthewWoody]

With 4 weeks yeah, a 4N would work very well and the other test nations could play test matches. 

Not sure the 4N is where Int rl authorities want to go. 

I'd say, given the RLWC results, a 4N with the WC semifinalists would be perfect. Add Tonga playing, say, Fiji. PNG could play Cook Islands, etc. 

Any result comes from the SF, I think all the nations would have reason to accept and play. 

[GeordieSaint]

I’d do something different in a 4-year cycle 

Year 1 - Regional Competition (like UEFA’s Nations League competition). 

Year 2 - Intercontinental Competition (Previous WC QFs in 2 pools and a final competition). Rest play qualify for next WC. 

Year 3 - Four Nations (Top 4 from Intercontinental Cup). Rest play regional competition.

Year 4 - WC.

4 games each year less the WC year. But more importantly, lots of cross-nation games and access for nations to play against the big boys in numerous games, not just in a WC if they are lucky. 

 

[eal]

7 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

So that means we just accept that?

IMHO the reason money is not in the international game is that as a sport we treat international RL with utter contempt.  Why should an organisation, or organisations, choose to invest in international RL when the game as a whole refuses to commit to a long term, fixed international program.

Maybe, just maybe, if SL and NRL agree to put the international game before the club game a la RU then money may flow into RL.  But fat chance of that happening.

 

I don't want to accept it, but I'm not sure how anything will change. I hate the proliferation of T20 franchise leagues in cricket that are weakening the international game, but what can anyone do? Money dictates all.