Reality check again

[rlno1]

43 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

I don't recognise all the names but Iooked at 1977 and there were Stevo, Jeff Grayshon, John Gray, Steve Norton and Gary Stephens. (By that stage I think Stevo was considered an immigrant rather than an import.)

I don't understand this sentence. If you take Grayshon as an example, ENG/GB didn't play any games while he was at Cronulla, same with Steve Norton at Manly in '76 and '77

I was referring to the 1970's ie 1970-77. For instance Manly had 3 English players in their premiership team in 1976.

Had all the players contracted to Australian clubs been allowed to play as they are today I would suggest with the extra strike power of the forwards like Norton, Lowe, Lockwood, Reilly etc and halves like Bishop, Topliss etc they would have won the 1973, 1974, 1977 series they were involved in. 

[rlno1]

40 minutes ago, Iceberg Slim said:

Mals job is to build the kangaroos brand I’ve heard him quote every possible idea under the sun but I’m not sure he can convince the arlc to do anything. He’s said he wanted a 3 test series against the kiwis. I doubt that would ever happen. I give him credit for acknowledging the test on Friday as high quality from both teams. 
 

if it does happen I’ll give him credit but I reckon the kangaroos will play one test next year and their players will go on holiday after that 

Think you maybe correct as their agreement with the league is one year off out of 4.

[binosh]

44 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Where are you going to get "14 strong English SL teams" from?? 

Has the massive downturn in junior RL, RU and even Soccer over recent years passed you by? 

Do you not see that we cram our Professional sides with overseas players to get the best quality teams we can to underpin the SKY TV deal..... 

How much do you think it costs clubs to run reserves and academies??  Where would we get the many ££thousands to set this all up?

How successful are even our top clubs in bringing through quality English players as compared to say 20 years ago?

I really do think you should look into the reality that kids nowadays shun playing soccer and Rugby, OK the numbers may be significant when mum and dad take them/make them go to the local clubs, but once these lads get into their teenage years they find better things to do than go play rugby and soccer on a cold weekend morning

At least soccer is a draw for the kids as it's such a big game here, but Rugby League is NOT a big game here. 

It is however big down under, so they will hammer us even more as time goes by and there is nothing we can do to stop that......................

 

Like I stated in my previous posts, it’s all about funding. Unfortunately RL is great at putting itself down and RL fans are the worst for spreading negativity about the game. Our local clubs Leigh miners & Leigh East and Leigh RU are packed with hundreds of kids week in week out playing the game, there are to many kids for each age group, the problem lies 2 fold, the lack of player pathway from amateur to professional and the fact you’re average parent knows there’s no money in RL so steer their kids elsewhere.

[binosh]

44 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Where are you going to get "14 strong English SL teams" from?? 

Has the massive downturn in junior RL, RU and even Soccer over recent years passed you by? 

Do you not see that we cram our Professional sides with overseas players to get the best quality teams we can to underpin the SKY TV deal..... 

How much do you think it costs clubs to run reserves and academies??  Where would we get the many ££thousands to set this all up?

How successful are even our top clubs in bringing through quality English players as compared to say 20 years ago?

I really do think you should look into the reality that kids nowadays shun playing soccer and Rugby, OK the numbers may be significant when mum and dad take them/make them go to the local clubs, but once these lads get into their teenage years they find better things to do than go play rugby and soccer on a cold weekend morning

At least soccer is a draw for the kids as it's such a big game here, but Rugby League is NOT a big game here. 

It is however big down under, so they will hammer us even more as time goes by and there is nothing we can do to stop that......................

 

Like I stated in my previous posts, it’s all about funding. Unfortunately RL is great at putting itself down and RL fans are the worst for spreading negativity about the game. Our local clubs Leigh miners & Leigh East and Leigh RU are packed with hundreds of kids week in week out playing the game, there are to many kids for each age group, the problem lies 2 fold, the lack of player pathway from amateur to professional and the fact you’re average parent knows there’s no money in RL so steer their kids elsewhere.

[binosh]

44 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Where are you going to get "14 strong English SL teams" from?? 

Has the massive downturn in junior RL, RU and even Soccer over recent years passed you by? 

Do you not see that we cram our Professional sides with overseas players to get the best quality teams we can to underpin the SKY TV deal..... 

How much do you think it costs clubs to run reserves and academies??  Where would we get the many ££thousands to set this all up?

How successful are even our top clubs in bringing through quality English players as compared to say 20 years ago?

I really do think you should look into the reality that kids nowadays shun playing soccer and Rugby, OK the numbers may be significant when mum and dad take them/make them go to the local clubs, but once these lads get into their teenage years they find better things to do than go play rugby and soccer on a cold weekend morning

At least soccer is a draw for the kids as it's such a big game here, but Rugby League is NOT a big game here. 

It is however big down under, so they will hammer us even more as time goes by and there is nothing we can do to stop that......................

 

Like I stated in my previous posts, it’s all about funding. Unfortunately RL is great at putting itself down and RL fans are the worst for spreading negativity about the game. Our local clubs Leigh miners & Leigh East and Leigh RU are packed with hundreds of kids week in week out playing the game, there are to many kids for each age group, the problem lies 2 fold, the lack of player pathway from amateur to professional and the fact you’re average parent knows there’s no money in RL so steer their kids elsewhere.

[Tippytoe]

15 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Saints will probably lose to Penrith but Saints are a quality side and have a real chance as thry have top players. 

I wonder if we will be so negative about England if Samoa beat Australia next week as we only lost in extra time.

If we were genuine contenders we should have been in the clear at 80mins 

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, binosh said:

Like I stated in my previous posts, it’s all about funding. Unfortunately RL is great at putting itself down and RL fans are the worst for spreading negativity about the game. Our local clubs Leigh miners & Leigh East and Leigh RU are packed with hundreds of kids week in week out playing the game, there are to many kids for each age group, the problem lies 2 fold, the lack of player pathway from amateur to professional and the fact you’re average parent knows there’s no money in RL so steer their kids elsewhere.

So RL needs the revenue necessary to pay players more doesn't it.  The salary cap should immediately be raised to the 3 million £ it would have reached if it had kept pace with inflation and then be increased in line with inflation every year, but the game would need more money coming in for clubs to be able to afford that.

[Mr Frisky]

2 hours ago, Tippytoe said:

If we were genuine contenders we should have been in the clear at 80mins 

Hard to confirm that until Australia play Samoa- don't forget Australia got beaten by Tonga last time out so the Aussies are beatable. 

By your reasoning if Samoa beat Australia by say 1 try England would be the 2nd best team in the tournament. 

[Tippytoe]

2 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Hard to confirm that until Australia play Samoa- don't forget Australia got beaten by Tonga last time out so the Aussies are beatable. 

By your reasoning if Samoa beat Australia by say 1 try England would be the 2nd best team in the tournament. 

Joint 4th 

[binosh]

3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

So RL needs the revenue necessary to pay players more doesn't it.  The salary cap should immediately be raised to the 3 million £ it would have reached if it had kept pace with inflation and then be increased in line with inflation every year, but the game would need more money coming in for clubs to be able to afford that.

The salary cap is a separate subject but we need more income to be able to run the correct number of youth teams, hopefully this is is something IMG look into.

If income streams meant that 14 English teams could have full time 1st, Reserves & Academies this would advance the player pool. The players aren’t there immediately but we need to start somewhere quickly.

[MatthewWoody]

Wouldn't an increased salary cap increase the gap between the richest teams and the rest of the SL? 

[moorside roughyed]

I always thought the salary cap was there to protect clubs from spending money they didn't necessarily have. By raising it ,some clubs would be at a big disadvantage and the superleague wouldn't be as competitive.

[binosh]

I think the cap is the right decision although I believe it should be raised, if it’s 2.1 now raise it slightly to 2.5, also mandatory Reserves & Academies with a mandatory minimum wage.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

So RL needs the revenue necessary to pay players more doesn't it.  The salary cap should immediately be raised to the 3 million £ it would have reached if it had kept pace with inflation and then be increased in line with inflation every year, but the game would need more money coming in for clubs to be able to afford that.

Clubs should always be allowed to pay what they want.

None of us would accept a salary cap in our roles. 

It is and always has been bonkers.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

I always thought the salary cap was there to protect clubs from spending money they didn't necessarily have. By raising it ,some clubs would be at a big disadvantage and the superleague wouldn't be as competitive.

It is up to the other clubs to improve then. I have never been convinced the way to improve the game is to pay some players less than their worth and dumb down the quality to the lowest common denominator.

The premier league doesn't need more Southamptons.

[MatthewWoody]

15 minutes ago, Leonard said:

It is up to the other clubs to improve then. I have never been convinced the way to improve the game is to pay some players less than their worth and dumb down the quality to the lowest common denominator.

The premier league doesn't need more Southamptons.

Hmm, we've been talking about intensity. I'm not sure you build intensity if you let the richer teams be richer, increasing the gap between top teams and the rest. 

Let's compare the list of SL and NRL winners. 

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Hard to confirm that until Australia play Samoa- don't forget Australia got beaten by Tonga last time out so the Aussies are beatable. 

By your reasoning if Samoa beat Australia by say 1 try England would be the 2nd best team in the tournament. 

Not in a knockout world cup game though...

[graveyard johnny]

eyebrows were raised when Watkins selection was announced amongst other players too - those eyebrows are now frowning - yet again - where are the players to replace our ageing old guard?

[Eddie]

Binning off the salary cap would be the best start. 

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Hmm, we've been talking about intensity. I'm not sure you build intensity if you let the richer teams be richer, increasing the gap between top teams and the rest. 

Let's compare the list of SL and NRL winners. 

Intensity doesn't guarantee quality or vice versa. There's been a noticeable number of blow out scores in the NRL in recent years.

The difference between the NRL and Super League is that there are mostly equal sized clubs in the former (notably the Titans are smaller and less successful). Super League is a more conventional European league where there are big clubs and "less big" clubs.

Too much of the focus has been on pegging back the Wigans, Leeds' and St Helens' of the league, which has just meant they have shifted their focus (and advantages) into other ways to flex their muscle. Focus should be made on building up more clubs to their level. IMG seem to want to fo that.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

eyebrows were raised when Watkins selection was announced amongst other players too - those eyebrows are now frowning - yet again - where are the players to replace our ageing old guard?

In fairness, there is a good crop of young talent, but most are quite young.

Newman, Gannon, Dodd have all been mentioned by others, Farnworth and Young are already in there, Oledski should have had more game time too. There are a few others too of course.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Hmm, we've been talking about intensity. I'm not sure you build intensity if you let the richer teams be richer, increasing the gap between top teams and the rest. 

Let's compare the list of SL and NRL winners. 

So someone should be deprived of the ability to maximise their earnings?

 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Leonard said:

So someone should be deprived of the ability to maximise their earnings?

 

Ultimately this is where its wrong isn't it. If you're being paid incredibly large sums commensurate with the money you (and your team mates) bring in, then fair enough no one is upset about the cap.

But when it is low to save costs for some and also keep a false sense of hope for others (as we currently see) its dreadful.

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

In fairness, there is a good crop of young talent, but most are quite young.

Newman, Gannon, Dodd have all been mentioned by others, Farnworth and Young are already in there, Oledski should have had more game time too. There are a few others too of course.

*To add to this, for Oledski, Newman, Gannon and Dodd, it may well be that the NRL is the best destination for their continued development; and therein lies the problem I guess.

[Fevrover]

49 minutes ago, Leonard said:

It is up to the other clubs to improve then. I have never been convinced the way to improve the game is to pay some players less than their worth and dumb down the quality to the lowest common denominator.

The premier league doesn't need more Southamptons.

What about more Bournemouth's ?