Sat 19 Nov: Men's World Cup Final: Australia v Samoa KO 4pm

[WN83]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Rubbish , if you know Shaun Wane then no way would they have been of that mindset 

They did however need a genuine test before the semi , they didn't get it , Samoa did 

Absolutely correct. Wanes teams don’t get ahead of themselves and this one simply panicked in a tight game because they weren’t used to that situation. 

[Dunbar]

10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Rubbish , if you know Shaun Wane then no way would they have been of that mindset 

They did however need a genuine test before the semi , they didn't get it , Samoa did 

 

2 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Absolutely correct. Wanes teams don’t get ahead of themselves and this one simply panicked in a tight game because they weren’t used to that situation. 

Not sure I can agree with this.

The intensity wasn't there from England from the first whistle.  I'm not putting the blame in any particular place but mentally, they weren't switched on for that game.

[Niels]

22 minutes ago, SUPERSTUD said:

Question is why were England at their lowest?

I think because Samoa were able to stop them playing, particularly the first 20 minutes. Samoa also stopped a Tonga side that had looked fantastic a game earlier.

It's a massive tactical part of the game negating your opponents. 

 

 

[DimmestStar]

Samoa kept the score within reasonable limits and credit to them for that they did as well as anyone else could have done bar New Zealand.

This is a ruthlessly efficient Australian team but lacking in star quality of yesteryear. Of course every player they have is excellent but I didn't see a Wally Lewis an Andrew Johns a Darren Lockyear a Greg Inglis etc. I saw lots of finely honed athletes who have been trained into a formula that is so difficult to combat.

The BBC commentators kept bigging up Nathan Cleary but he never produced his NRL form and his goalkicking was ordinary. He didn't seem to be able to reach from the touchline. The real exciting moments came from Addo-Carr who couldn't make the State of Origin team and Tedesco who saved his best for the final.

Overall this was a World Cup which could have been so much better. Seeding Australia as the 4th best team in the world was a monumental mistake it didn't make any difference to Australia but it produced a World Cup in England where the hosts never faced Australia and they never faced New Zealand.

We lament the lack of international fixtures and then come up with a system where a World Cup staged in England doesn't feature England against Australia and doesn't feature England v New Zealand. Crazy!

For all the major positive of Samoa reaching a world cup final, I said after the brilliant Australia vs NZ semi that was the real final because they are far and away the best two teams by a distance. I stand by that.

[WN83]

Just now, Dunbar said:

 

Not sure I can agree with this.

The intensity wasn't there from England from the first whistle.  I'm not putting the blame in any particular place but mentally, they weren't switched on for that game.

People talk about teams bottling a situation sometimes and it’s not always the case but I did feel like we bottled that game somewhat. I didn’t see a lack of desire or intensity, I just saw a team go in to panic mode from the moment Samoa scored the first try. We didn’t seem to settle from minute one, right through to the winning drop goal. 
 

Whatever it was, it was so disappointing. Ot really hit home for me tonight, sitting in a very good atmosphere, thinking what could’ve been. 

[Dunbar]

James Tedesco will go down as one of the best in the game.  And of course Tom Trbojevic was injured who is probably the best player in Australia when fit.

I also think Latrell Mitchell is probably the most talented player of this generation but discipline let's him down.

[GUBRATS]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

Not sure I can agree with this.

The intensity wasn't there from England from the first whistle.  I'm not putting the blame in any particular place but mentally, they weren't switched on for that game.

Maybe right , but not through anything you can address in training , you can discuss all you want , but once the whistle goes , then it's game on , everybody seems to need this 

Except the Aussies

[WN83]

Just now, Dunbar said:

James Tedesco will go down as one of the best in the game.  And of course Tom Trbojevic was injured who is probably the best player in Australia when fit.

I also think Latrell Mitchell is probably the most talented player of this generation but discipline let's him down.

The best stand up in the biggest games. He’s been reasonably quiet by his standards throughout the tournament but he was excellent tonight.
 

Surprised how quiet Munster has been throughout the World Cup. Maybe I’ve missed it but every time I’ve seen Australia play, I’ve rarely noticed him. 

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

Imagine that the best way for Rugby League to expand the game to American audience is to play a Samoa vs Tonga game in America instead of the Tier 1 nations.

Tonga vs Samoa has morechance of being sold out in America than any of the big 3 facing each other in the states.

It would be fantastic to have that contest in the USA. Totally agree with your take.

[GUBRATS]

Samoa needed to hit the floor running , they needed a break , they didn't get it because a touch judge missed both a foot and the ball hitting the line after 3/4 minutes , if he was in any doubt he could surely have requested video ref intervention ( or why bother having it ? )  , they get that call , score a try , the Aussies feel pressure 

Then who knows ? 

[Mojo]

20 minutes ago, Niels said:

I think because Samoa were able to stop them playing, particularly the first 20 minutes. Samoa also stopped a Tonga side that had looked fantastic a game earlier.

It's a massive tactical part of the game negating your opponents. 

 

 

For you to explain that, shows how ignorant some of these English fans are. They just can't accept the fact that Samoa made them play bad that day

[Niels]

4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Samoa needed to hit the floor running , they needed a break , they didn't get it because a touch judge missed both a foot and the ball hitting the line after 3/4 minutes , if he was in any doubt he could surely have requested video ref intervention ( or why bother having it ? )  , they get that call , score a try , the Aussies feel pressure 

Then who knows ? 

I think you make a good point.

The first score was vital in the England game and Samoa got it. That set the tone of the game. 

Australia have a far better defence than England so there is no guarantee they would have scored.

However, it was a massive mistake as you say,  and psychologically damaging for an underdog.

[Midlands hobo]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

You might 

I never will 

Be it RL, cricket, RU, netball or anything. 

 

I admire the way they play RU takes a special effort to drop from multiple world cup winner to being beaten by Italy.

[Mojo]

43 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

Samoa kept the score within reasonable limits and credit to them for that they did as well as anyone else could have done bar New Zealand.

This is a ruthlessly efficient Australian team but lacking in star quality of yesteryear. Of course every player they have is excellent but I didn't see a Wally Lewis an Andrew Johns a Darren Lockyear a Greg Inglis etc. I saw lots of finely honed athletes who have been trained into a formula that is so difficult to combat.

The BBC commentators kept bigging up Nathan Cleary but he never produced his NRL form and his goalkicking was ordinary. He didn't seem to be able to reach from the touchline. The real exciting moments came from Addo-Carr who couldn't make the State of Origin team and Tedesco who saved his best for the final.

Overall this was a World Cup which could have been so much better. Seeding Australia as the 4th best team in the world was a monumental mistake it didn't make any difference to Australia but it produced a World Cup in England where the hosts never faced Australia and they never faced New Zealand.

We lament the lack of international fixtures and then come up with a system where a World Cup staged in England doesn't feature England against Australia and doesn't feature England v New Zealand. Crazy!

For all the major positive of Samoa reaching a world cup final, I said after the brilliant Australia vs NZ semi that was the real final because they are far and away the best two teams by a distance. I stand by that.

I get your point, but they aren't far and away. Nz we're lucky to make the semis after Fiji nearly beat them in the quarter finals

[The Masked Poster]

47 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

 

Not sure I can agree with this.

The intensity wasn't there from England from the first whistle.  I'm not putting the blame in any particular place but mentally, they weren't switched on for that game.

I'm just watching it again and Robbie Paul touched upon a game that I remember well. Bradford thrashed St Helens in the qualifier of the GF years ago....but then lost the final. He said it was because whatever they said outwardly, they inwardly thought they just had to turn up and the game was won. 

This is probably what happened to the England team. 

 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, The Masked Poster said:

I'm just watching it again and Robbie Paul touched upon a game that I remember well. Bradford thrashed St Helens in the qualifier of the GF years ago....but then lost the final. He said it was because whatever they said outwardly, they inwardly thought they just had to turn up and the game was won. 

This is probably what happened to the England team. 

 

Subconscious , without doubt , no matter how many times you tell yourself 

[Chrispmartha]

2 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I'm just watching it again and Robbie Paul touched upon a game that I remember well. Bradford thrashed St Helens in the qualifier of the GF years ago....but then lost the final. He said it was because whatever they said outwardly, they inwardly thought they just had to turn up and the game was won. 

This is probably what happened to the England team. 

 

The England team fell in love with themselves. As did many England RL fans.

Samoa had far too many good players, unfortunately Shaun wane thought players like Tomkins and micky mac were as good as them, they are not.

[Midlands hobo]

5 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Explain the difference between a deliberate knock on , and an unsuccessful interception attempt ? 

 

Attempting to catch or tapping the ball upwards with one hand to give yourself a second chance is attempted intercept. Much like samoas today which got a try.

Interference with a pass you have no chance of catching or playing down on the ball deliberately stopping the pass. as per aus tonight. 

 

A few years back RU refs started yellow carding failed intercepts and it caused a **** storm as it ruined literally the only exciting thing people who don't understand scrummaging have.

 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The England team fell in love with themselves. As did many England RL fans.

Samoa had far too many good players, unfortunately Shaun wane thought players like Tomkins and micky mac were as good as them, they are not.

Mmm , tell us who he should have played instead ?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Midlands hobo said:

Attempting to catch or tapping the ball upwards with one hand to give yourself a second chance is attempted intercept. Much like samoas today which got a try.

Interference with a pass you have no chance of catching or playing down on the ball deliberately stopping the pass. as per aus tonight. 

 

A few years back RU refs started yellow carding failed intercepts and it caused a **** storm as it ruined literally the only exciting thing people who don't understand scrummaging have.

 

They still do it , I witnessed one earlier this year ,a player with a 3 on 1 against went for the intercept but just missed it , a yellow card and penalty try , ridiculous 

If you make it subjective then you'll get it wrong , we want interceptions , we don't want hesitancy as that will reduce the amount of ones we get right 

Daft rule , get rid 

[Midlands hobo]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

They still do it , I witnessed one earlier this year ,a player with a 3 on 1 against went for the intercept but just missed it , a yellow card and penalty try , ridiculous 

If you make it subjective then you'll get it wrong , we want interceptions , we don't want hesitancy as that will reduce the amount of ones we get right 

Daft rule , get rid 

Oz tonight though was not subjective at all I was in the opposite corner of the ground and it was obvious from there it was a deliberate bat down. 

 

Card no penalty absolutely.

[Chrispmartha]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Mmm , tell us who he should have played instead ?

Welsby should have been at full back, micky mac shouldn’t have been in the squad never mind the starting line up

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Midlands hobo said:

Oz tonight though was not subjective at all I was in the opposite corner of the ground and it was obvious from there it was a deliberate bat down. 

 

Card no penalty absolutely.

It's up to the attacking team to find ways to score , there are far worse rules like lying on , like voluntary tackles , like pushing the player at the PTB , make it simple 

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Welsby should have been at full back, micky mac shouldn’t have been in the squad never mind the starting line up

Who else ?

[north yorks trinity]

5 hours ago, Hemi4561 said:

Oooh, what's the matter, did he nick your whistle once.

No matter how most people feel about it their is, imo, a massive weight of pressure on Referees, either explicit, or more subtle, to NOT " spoil" showpiece televised games by giving red cards for actions that in 99 out of 100 other "lesser" games would lead to instant dismissal.

The difference being that in this case it wouldn't have spoilt the game; it would have made it more exciting! Not that that should influence decision making otherwise all Australia tries would be ruled out, as they spoil the game terribly for most of us. Actually, come to think of it...