Sat 19 Nov: Men's World Cup Final: Australia v Samoa KO 4pm

[Dunbar]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

With due respect that is a load of BS, these are very close to the best players we could have put out on the pitch, all having played and performed on big occasions in cup finals or grand finals it is not that they were underprepared or the coach would have been the silent one pre-comp, pre-week or pre-game, we have all heard his passion and seen the effect of how he gets into his players psyche - remember Ben Flowers - is it not conceivable that the best team on the day won, even though that very same team were verbally assassinated on these pages three weeks before.

If you are going to post with respect, then say you have a different opinion.  Don't just call someone else's opinion BS.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, Dunbar said:

James Tedesco will go down as one of the best in the game.  And of course Tom Trbojevic was injured who is probably the best player in Australia when fit.

I also think Latrell Mitchell is probably the most talented player of this generation but discipline let's him down.

Given time more from this generation will be just as revered.

[Exiled Wiganer]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If you are going to post with respect, then say you have a different opinion.  Don't just call someone else's opinion BS.

I have 2 problems with getting a sense of how good these players are.

First, there refusal to use proper numbering - as good an example as any of their contempt for internationals - meant I was constantly slightly confused as to who even had the ball. The second is that we haven’t seen nearly enough of them to form a view as to how good they are. I struggle to compare Sterling with whoever their half back is when he hasn’t played against England/GB, and may not ever do so. 

I appreciate neither of these is a great reason, and they perhaps show that I am not a discerning watcher!

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Given time more from this generation will be just as revered.

The talent is there but the lack of internationals may dampen that.

Look ar Tom Trbojevic.  An absolutely outstanding player and easily capable of being compared to the very best from the 80's and 90's.  Yes he has had his injury troubles but he is 26 years old and only played 4 times for Australia. 

It doesn't matter how good you are, if you don't play on the world stage then the world audience won't recognise your brilliance.

Would Mal Meninga be as revered in this country if all his achievements were in Australia and he played for Australia maybe 10 times.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I have 2 problems with getting a sense of how good these players are.

First, there refusal to use proper numbering - as good an example as any of their contempt for internationals - meant I was constantly slightly confused as to who even had the ball. The second is that we haven’t seen nearly enough of them to form a view as to how good they are. I struggle to compare Sterling with whoever their half back is when he hasn’t played against England/GB, and may not ever do so. 

I appreciate neither of these is a great reason, and they perhaps show that I am not a discerning watcher!

I support you second point on my post I was typing as you were. 

On the numbering.  It was just daft from start to finish.  The decision to use squad numbering meant that no team in the final was going to play in 1 to 13.  Then Australia's decision to use crazy numbers compounded that.  Not our best decision as a sport.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Who else ?

Playing Welsby at FB, would vacate the halfback position it would have allowed for someone to come in to make the hard yards simpler to make with a good long accurate kicking game, one Marc Sneyd sat on his ariss could have made so much difference to the tactics of the England team.

[jacksy]

2 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

Agree but don't over coach the younger players let them enjoy what they are doing without pressure.And develop at their own pace.

I say this as someone who coached for many years.

Stop tackling upto at least age 12.

If people want competition they can have touch/tag leagues from say 10s. 

Convert to tackle at 12s.

Edited November 20, 2022 by jacksy

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

Agree but don't over coach the younger players let them enjoy what they are doing without pressure.And develop at their own pace.

Adopt the Aussie method - whatever that is - unquestionably it works, that with also having a sport that most kids want to get involved in!

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

All this to try to provide his son with a winning team 

Or his self esteem?

East or Miners Gubby, what age level and what year? No names required.

[Harry Stottle]

32 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

If you are going to post with respect, then say you have a different opinion.  Don't just call someone else's opinion BS.

Fair comment that was my initial reaction, but I do think it is just another in the long line of excuses that are just papering over the cracks. 

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fair comment that was my initial reaction, but I do think it is just another in the long line of excuses that are just papering over the cracks. 

I don't think it is an excuse though, it is a failure.

The Australians don't go into games with the wrong attitude and a lack of intensity.

My post was not an excuse, it was a criticism. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Dunbar

[Chrispmartha]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Adopt the Aussie method - whatever that is - unquestionably it works, that with also having a sport that most kids want to get involved in!

The NRL is like the premier league over here, they have the pick of the young athletes

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The talent is there but the lack of internationals may dampen that.

Look ar Tom Trbojevic.  An absolutely outstanding player and easily capable of being compared to the very best from the 80's and 90's.  Yes he has had his injury troubles but he is 26 years old and only played 4 times for Australia. 

It doesn't matter how good you are, if you don't play on the world stage then the world audience won't recognise your brilliance.

Would Mal Meninga be as revered in this country if all his achievements were in Australia and he played for Australia maybe 10 times.

That's fair comment, but saying that we do see a lot of these players over the course of the season and have some idea, just how good or otherwise they could be on the world stage. Unfortunately we are denied through politics not the player's ability to do that measure, just as an aside question would you say that some of those Legends of the Australian past had an easier World Stage to exhibit there skills on as those of today, this is not disrespecting those greats of the past I was in awe of them it is just that their collective of opposition being just NZ, GB and France back then was not as strong as todays international stage could offer, and as I said in a previous post I can only see each generation of the Aussies improving.

[StandOffHalf]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Junior Paulo's wasn't in the 1/4 final and the precedent has been set. The spear tackle by the same player in the semi final should have been a red as well, but wasn't

The difference was that Paulo's was an attempted hand-off when the two players were at the same sort of height. I think yellow could have been an option there.

Play had broken down yesterday and the Aussie pointed the elbow at the Samoan.

The first was a genuine, mis-timed accident. The second was avoidable and unnecessary.

[Harry Stottle]

10 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The NRL is like the premier league over here, they have the pick of the young athletes

Yes I am aware of the profile and the pull of the kids to play Rugby league has in Queensland and NSW that is why I said 'a sport that most kids want to get involved in' but it is the formative years of the kids in Aus that separates us, in my own circumstance as a young un in Leigh, we had a number of junior schools who played against each other on a regular basis, then had the town team against other towns, at senior school it progressed even further with more fixtures against schools from other towns and county cups, and in those times GB were beating Australia but that has all gone now and I fear will never ever return, producing player's to play at the top level is a numbers game the more we have then the more to choose from, then as in Aus as you say the NRL have the pick from a vast number of kids, this exemplifies why we will never catch up to the NRL.

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, gogledd said:

Enjoy my day in Manchester yesterday. Two dominant displays from.the men's and women's Australian teams but no less . enjoyable for that.

I sat between an excited Aussies and two Swinton fans who were watching their 52 and 53rd game in the World Cup. They have to take the Golden Mile-O-Meter award for the most travelled fans of the tournament. Chapeau gents!

Was it Graham and Hazel ? 

[gogledd]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Was it Graham and Hazel ? 

Not sure of their names - one may be Ian? They were sitting with Spelly!

[Exiled Wiganer]

Someone mentioned Tom Trbovic (not sure about the spelling). I watch a lot of league and have not got the faintest notion why he might be considered a top class as opposed to a decent player. Has he even played against England? I appreciate that COVID has distorted everything, so maybe in time we will get to know these players. 

We should bear in mind that the NH is an absolutely massive market for international league - there is zero chance of any of the SH teams playing for their country in front of a crowd that size at a world renowned stadium. I would have thought that some of them might want to do so again…

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I support you second point on my post I was typing as you were. 

On the numbering.  It was just daft from start to finish.  The decision to use squad numbering meant that no team in the final was going to play in 1 to 13.  Then Australia's decision to use crazy numbers compounded that.  Not our best decision as a sport.

How does the Australian system differ from or compound squad numbering? I don't understand how people found one more difficult than the other.

[Blind side johnny]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Adopt the Aussie method - whatever that is - unquestionably it works, that with also having a sport that most kids want to get involved in!

Fundamentally, that method involves having a sport 20X wealthier than it currently is and relegating soccer to the third choice for spectators.

Good luck with that.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Oh, and as for TV viewing figures, as many people watched the wheelchair final as watch State of Origin. In most worlds, the SH authorities would like a slice of that level of exposure. 

[Blind side johnny]

2 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Someone mentioned Tom Trbovic (not sure about the spelling). I watch a lot of league and have not got the faintest notion why he might be considered a top class as opposed to a decent player. Has he even played against England? I appreciate that COVID has distorted everything, so maybe in time we will get to know these players. 

We should bear in mind that the NH is an absolutely massive market for international league - there is zero chance of any of the SH teams playing for their country in front of a crowd that size at a world renowned stadium. I would have thought that some of them might want to do so again…

He is outstanding in the NRL. The best players in the NRL who were available were selected for this Aussie squad. Hence he is a top class player even if, like many of the others, he hasn't even played against England. I don't believe this last factor is still a requirement for greatness, but I may be wrong.

[Exiled Wiganer]

2 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

How does the Australian system differ from or compound squad numbering? I don't understand how people found one more difficult than the other.

In the NRL they don’t have squad numbers. 1 is always the full back. The Aussies had a hissy fit when asked to move to a squad number system so devised one so random that meant that anyone used to watching league but unfamiliar to these big in Sydney but nowhere else players couldn’t make head nor tail of. There was one player, Tedesco, who played in the position his number suggested. And it’s probably fair to assume Addo-Clark was on the wing. As for the others, I think Wighton is a back, and Martin is a forward, but am not 100% certain. Oh, and Cleary is a half back, which I recall from watching the NRL. 

It annoyed and distracted me, and compounded my sense of our game having become NRL versus the world, with the Kangaroos an after thought. 

[JohnM]

Of the 60000 plus at OT yesterday, how many people gave a toss about the player numbering system? I never heard it mentioned at all, not in the car park, not in the walk to the ground, not in the bar/pie area and certainly not on the seats before during and after the game.

Edited November 20, 2022 by JohnM

[Dunbar]

21 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

He is outstanding in the NRL. The best players in the NRL who were available were selected for this Aussie squad. Hence he is a top class player even if, like many of the others, he hasn't even played against England. I don't believe this last factor is still a requirement for greatness, but I may be wrong.

The squad numbers meant that we were always going to watch games where some of the players were not playing in a number reflecting their position.

The Australian decision meant we were going to watch matches where no-one (apart from Tedesco) was going to play in a number reflecting their position.