Toulouse struggling

[Mr Frisky]

56 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Not a snob at all. Just don't have a particularly high opinion of some of these towns where League is played in England. Without getting into politics either (I fully appreciate this is not a politics forum) a large number of the people in these towns are politically miles off where I am, and I strongly dislike some of their "values". They probably feel the same about me, I am aware it is a 2 way street.

From NZ bro, but living in Spain for many years. You?

So you left a backwards country with big social problems, full of small poor towns that doesn’t really like RL to live in a backwards country with big social problems and unemployment that hasn't heard of RL...

No wonder you spend all your time on a UK RL forum - slating UK RL.... you must have a great life.

At least you can pop over the border to see Cats play - ever cloud

[Mr Frisky]

46 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

One of the places you despise born and bred in Leigh, how many of these bleak places have you actually visited, or do you just type cast each into one homogeneous mass?

And yes I have been to both North and South Island NZ, and made many visits to Spain, all over the Costa's and the north and Madrid on 7/8 occasions.

Don't worry Harry, he has a Leigh sized chip on his shoulders as he bought a load of Leigh Centurions merchandise at the end of last season at discounted rates.... he now has to buy all the Leppard merchandise at full price

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Mrs Stottle agrees.

That must've been a shock!

 

3 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Could someone closer to all this give us their thoughts on whether Sarrazain's departure is something planned, something done in reaction to the 2022 losses, something existential to TO, nothing to see here?

This seems to me the significant thing - not the argument over whether TO should have paid SL airfares (important though that is).

If T O are in trouble financially and the departure is a direct consequence of them paying for things normally shared more equitably it's relevance is paramount. And an indictement of " We need a strong french side" and other meaningless and empty phrases.

 

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

born and bred in Leigh

That must've been a shock!

[Archie Gordon]

6 minutes ago, Oxford said:

If T O are in trouble financially and the departure is a direct consequence of them paying for things normally shared more equitably it's relevance is paramount. 

But that can't be the case. The costs for air travel were known before 2022 started and were in the 2022 budget. *Presumably the EUR 500k losses were not.* Ergo, whilst there is a neat symmetry between the air travel costs and the losses, the latter is not a direct consequence of the former. The thing of real interest here is why expected turnover fell well short and whether this is now an existential threat to the club. 

[DEANO]

3 hours ago, Hello said:

With due respect.  At the time that football was invented in England, nowhere else had ever heard of it let alone played it, so there would be zero demand for football in Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Germany etc etc etc.  Did that stop them getting into it when they found out about it?  By your logic, football would have stayed being played in the place that it was first played if everyone had said "let's not bother telling anyone else about this game that we enjoy because they aren't demanding to know about it".

Toronto was a good example of how League can expand.  Their crowds were growing season on season in a City with very little league history, and if they had not been voted out by the other teams then who's to say how big there crowds could have got in a different stadium playing in Super League?  Who's to say how many kids might have wanted to emulate their heroes and start having games amongst themselves?  Who's to say how many other towns and Cities in Canada might have been influenced by Toronto and got into League themselves?

Every sport starts from a position of zero demand in new places until those places find out about it.  If you don't bother trying to bring the game to them then they won't find out about it.  That is why most sports in the leauge continue to expand and League is on a downward spiral, I fear.

Trying to grow the game over a hundred years after it was invented tells you something. 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

But that can't be the case. The costs for air travel were known before 2022 started and were in the 2022 budget. *Presumably the EUR 500k losses were not.* Ergo, whilst there is a neat symmetry between the air travel costs and the losses, the latter is not a direct consequence of the former. The thing of real interest here is why expected turnover fell well short and whether this is now an existential threat to the club. 

Let's not forget that Toulouse were also severely restricted by Covid restrictions at the start of the season. This meant they had to cancel build up events with fans and sponsors, couldn't open bars and had to play the first few games with limited attendance. They had to operate on a week by week basis as restrictions changed and couldn't plan. All of that would have been very costly too with knock on effects for the rest of the season, even when restrictions relaxed.

[Madrileño]

48 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

So you left a backwards country with big social problems, full of small poor towns that doesn’t really like RL to live in a backwards country with big social problems and unemployment

In what way is my country "backwards"?

And Spain? How is it "backwards"?

These allegations make you sound like a racist. 

 

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Let's not forget that Toulouse were also severely restricted by Covid restrictions at the start of the season. This meant they had to cancel build up events with fans and sponsors, couldn't open bars and had to play the first few games with limited attendance. They had to operate on a week by week basis as restrictions changed and couldn't plan. All of that would have been very costly too with knock on effects for the rest of the season, even when restrictions relaxed.

Sure. Almost nothing went as planned ... except for the airfare costs.

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Leonard said:

Which means what goes around come around. And the other clubs should.not forget that. 

No idea what you mean by this 

[Barley Mow]

24 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

In what way is my country "backwards"?

And Spain? How is it "backwards"?

These allegations make you sound like a racist. 

 

That's quite a leap seeing as you don't know his race.

Perhaps you could suggest xenophobia, but I don't think there's any more evidence of that in @Mr Frisky's comments than there was in yours about UK towns.

Edited January 28 by Barley Mow

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Madrileño said:

Not a snob at all. Just don't have a particularly high opinion of some of these towns where League is played in England. Without getting into politics either (I fully appreciate this is not a politics forum) a large number of the people in these towns are politically miles off where I am, and I strongly dislike some of their "values". They probably feel the same about me, I am aware it is a 2 way street.

From NZ bro, but living in Spain for many years. You?

From NZ , so unless you're from Auckland , you're not from a RL heartland 

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Leonard said:

Average crowd 4,967. That is fine for a first season where a side is hamstrung from the start.

You can argue about freebies etc - but that seemed a good building block to me. Most champ clubs would not manage that if promoted.

Most? Widnes, Bradford, Halifax, Barrow, York and Fev definitely would, and some of the others like Whitehaven might.  On this forum we were repeatedly told TO would average 10k if they went up, which is nonsense. 

[Leonard]

Just now, Eddie said:

Most? Widnes, Bradford, Halifax, Barrow, York and Fev definitely would, and some of the others like Whitehaven might.  On this forum we were repeatedly told TO would average 10k if they went up, which is nonsense. 

Swinton too. And Oldham to be fair.

[Mr Frisky]

21 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

In what way is my country "backwards"?

And Spain? How is it "backwards"?

These allegations make you sound like a racist. 

 

Your the one who moved away from "your country" to a county with an unemployment rate of around 15% mate - far more than those UK RL towns you despise - I'm just stating facts after you attacked the RL towns of the UK - despite these being the backbone of the History of RL.

Take it thats its ok for you to slate these small UK Towns but when I do the same to a country you left for a better life-  to show you it works both ways - I'm racist - FFS.

Are you planning on attending any French RL games this year mate to get your fix?

[Mr Frisky]

9 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

That's quite a leap seeing as you don't know his race.

Perhaps you could suggest xenophobia, but I don't think there's any more evidence of that in @Mr Frisky's comments than there was in yours about UK towns.

Thanks - exactly the reason for my post - the irony was lost on him - not for the first time.

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, barnyia said:

The only place RL gets fans in the northern hemisphere is down the m62 corridor and a few thousand in the south of France, maybe it tells you something about our game, nobody is really interested unless they're born into it, 

 

To be fair mate I don’t think that’s true. Here in Norfolk I’m constantly surprised about how many people know and enjoy watching the game, people with no connection to the Heartlands. Literally yesterday one chap on my school run saw me in a Saints hoodie and came over to say he supports Wigan and loves watching super league on TV. This isn’t unusual. The trouble is none of these people have access to watch the game live unless they drive 4 hours each way to do so, which they’re not going to do.  

[Leonard]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

To be fair mate I don’t think that’s true. Here in Norfolk I’m constantly surprised about how many people know and enjoy watching the game, people with no connection to the Heartlands. Literally yesterday one chap on my school run saw me in a Saints hoodie and came over to say he supports Wigan and loves watching super league on TV. This isn’t unusual. The trouble is none of these people have access to watch the game live unless they drive 4 hours each way to do so, which they’re not going to do.  

Especially given the attitude of the SL clubs to expansion.

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Especially given the attitude of the SL clubs to expansion.

How do you want these clubs to support that expansion ? 

[Jughead]

Expansion, eh? It’s nothing without a plan. 

[Hello]

2 hours ago, redjonn said:

I would agree that those sports have a wider global/WW foot print, some more than others. Never-the-less I do not think it was because the relative sports administration in this country created and drove that spread.

The relative sports country administrators drove their own sports in their countries building on the interest and demand in their own countries. They of course joined wider European or Global administrators and their sports wider competitions that further drove interest and demand.  They first focused on the strength of their own country sports foremost. 

This thread like many on this forum seem to put all the blame on the RFL for the little  interest elsewhere.   

I would love the sport to be on same level of the sports mentioned but reality is we need to focus on strengthening the current footprint here, even if it is a regional or M62 sport. Otherwise the sport here totally disappears. We need a strong footprint in the regional reality we have from which we can spread further. So the reality is were should the focus be as currently it seems to me its about saving the sport in this country as it is, otherwise it disappears before we can breakout of our regional glue. Despite what should have been done before, we have to focus on the here and now and package what a great local sport connected to local communities it is before we enter the glitzy world sport we want it to ultimately be.  

I enjoy the sport but I can't get away from the fact that ultimately its going to end up like the NFL in America. That is NRL in Australia with their de-facto club or origin world champions.  Unless we just focus on strengthening the all-be-it regional sport we have before we worry about else where. 

The NFL is watched by many millions of people outside of the states and London sells out Tottenham's stadium easily when they play a game there, usually more than once a season so I thinking if RL had the international popularity of the NFL then the IRL would be laughing all the way to the bank.  I agree with you to an extent that at times people expect the RFL to be miracle workers and blame them unfairly in some instances, but I think that nearly everyone on this forum is in agreement that they could do a damn sight better at supporting the existing game and promoting it to new areas, starting with not forcing Toulouse to pay travel if they get back to SL. The short term thinking by some is how they might lose part of their team budget in travelling whilst not seeing the bigger long-term benefits of having big name places in the sport to make it more attractive to potential new supporters and not be seen as "tin-pot" as so many say.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Expansion, eh? It’s nothing without a plan. 

Planning is easy , paying is harder 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Hello said:

The NFL is watched by many millions of people outside of the states and London sells out Tottenham's stadium easily when they play a game there, usually more than once a season so I thinking if RL had the international popularity of the NFL then the IRL would be laughing all the way to the bank.  I agree with you to an extent that at times people expect the RFL to be miracle workers and blame them unfairly in some instances, but I think that nearly everyone on this forum is in agreement that they could do a damn sight better at supporting the existing game and promoting it to new areas, starting with not forcing Toulouse to pay travel if they get back to SL. The short term thinking by some is how they might lose part of their team budget in travelling whilst not seeing the bigger long-term benefits of having big name places in the sport to make it more attractive to potential new supporters and not be seen as "tin-pot" as so many say.

Don't start using the NFL as a comparison , how many tens or possibly hundreds of millions have they put into expanding the game into Europe ? 

[sweaty craiq]

1 hour ago, Madrileño said:

Loads. I love watching League. 

And... no.

My opinion is based very much on observations and interactions. The sport will never grow in the UK if it remains limited to these lower decile towns. You can believe otherwise if you like, but the wider UK public are too aspirational to get behind Leigh vs Castleford en masse. 

Next you’ll be telling Spain isn’t an EU sponger

[Damien]

59 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Sure. Almost nothing went as planned ... except for the airfare costs.

You asked why turnover fell short, Covid was a reason why.

[Madrileño]

48 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

 

Take it thats its ok for you to slate these small UK Towns but when I do the same to a country you left for a better life-  to show you it works both ways - I'm racist - FFS.

 

I simply asked why you consider Spain and NZ as "backwards" countries?

It is the sort of thing I have only ever heard from the stereotypical xenophobic English brexit-voting, WWII-celebrating, deranged grandfather type. I am sure you are not that, so perhaps you could answer my question rather than deflecting?