Toulouse struggling

[Hello]

10 hours ago, DEANO said:

You can try to grow the game wherever you want but there has to be a demand for it

With due respect.  At the time that football was invented in England, nowhere else had ever heard of it let alone played it, so there would be zero demand for football in Brazil, Argentina, Italy, France, Germany etc etc etc.  Did that stop them getting into it when they found out about it?  By your logic, football would have stayed being played in the place that it was first played if everyone had said "let's not bother telling anyone else about this game that we enjoy because they aren't demanding to know about it".

Toronto was a good example of how League can expand.  Their crowds were growing season on season in a City with very little league history, and if they had not been voted out by the other teams then who's to say how big there crowds could have got in a different stadium playing in Super League?  Who's to say how many kids might have wanted to emulate their heroes and start having games amongst themselves?  Who's to say how many other towns and Cities in Canada might have been influenced by Toronto and got into League themselves?

Every sport starts from a position of zero demand in new places until those places find out about it.  If you don't bother trying to bring the game to them then they won't find out about it.  That is why most sports in the leauge continue to expand and League is on a downward spiral, I fear.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Hello

[David Shepherd]

11 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Very true Barnyia , and much is made of Toulouse being a big City , but from my limited experience ( 2 trips ) in Toulouse itself Olympic are not really in the public concience, so what the answer is , I don't know 

Same here. From hotel and bar staff to Uber and bus drivers, no one had really heard of them. Not even the many (lots of them northern) ex-pats.
 

I’ve no idea what marketing and community engagement TO do, but there’s clearly work to be done raising their profile. I don’t think just being in SL and expecting people to turn up is going to work.

[Just Browny]

8 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

One of the scariest days of my life was taking a wrong turn and ending up in the Arab quarter in Toulouse

France needs 4 SL clubs but must bring a tv deal with them as we move to a 16 team SL

Could you explain what happened to you in the Arab quarter?

[GUBRATS]

38 minutes ago, Leonard said:

A 14 league SL would sort that.

My view is that teams should pay their own travel costs. One trip to TL a season is fine. TL then pay for their flights to the UK, which is their baked in "disadvantage".

If Cornwall make SL would we suggest they need to pay for flights to Newquay and hotels? Nope.

These things are not very hard really.

But SL clubs go out of their way to be penny pinching ****s, imho, and want everyone else to subsidise their own financial woes.

How much did they **** up the wall on Elstone, the SL demerger, duplicating costs etc?

How would a 14 team SL sort it out ? , Which would of course result in a reduced central funding 

[GUBRATS]

37 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Average crowd 4,967. That is fine for a first season where a side is hamstrung from the start.

You can argue about freebies etc - but that seemed a good building block to me. Most champ clubs would not manage that if promoted.

As I put , from my limited experience , the claims by some with probably less experience than me that they would draw big crowds was always unlikely 

I agree about clubs paying their own travel , but also understand that club owners will do all they can to maintain their own position within the game 

[Mr Frisky]

28 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Could you explain what happened to you in the Arab quarter?

Be careful what you ask for - its not nice but does involve an Arab with a rather large beard and deep voice, a small carrot and 5 Rugby Union fans.....

[Oxford]

47 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Could you explain what happened to you in the Arab quarter?

He had to decide between Couscous and Tajine !

[Harry Stottle]

20 hours ago, Eddie said:

They might wish there was one, but it does seem deeply unrealistic. They’d need at least 4 SL clubs I reckon. 

They need the people of France in big enough numbers to make RL far more popular than it is at the present time to persuade TV companies that they would get a return on their investment.

[binosh]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

I can't be bothered - it'll just get drowned out by Leigh posters.

Like everything.

What’s this got to do with Leigh?

 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Just saw this thread.

I know the Toulouse marketing team pretty well and believe me they work their socks off, and for this coming season will implement some fantastic ideas.

One thing is 100% certain its a waste of time targeting RU fans as the majority are only there for the snob value (Certainly not for the rugby) Even at the Dragons I doubt if there are more than 500 in Perpignan that follow both codes.

Toulouse should never have been made to pay the costs of bringing over the English teams its totally ridiculous and please everyone forget about a French TV deal with 2 teams (And only 1 in SL it is never going to happen in a million years unless there were at least 4 teams in SL) Aside from that who with the only option would be Canal + which is totally committed and run by Union people.

Paul

 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by ATLANTISMAN

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

I can't be bothered - it'll just get drowned out by Leigh posters.

Like everything.

Apologies Leonard that the are RL supporters in Leigh who like discussing RL on a multi club forum like this 

[binosh]

If IMG can improve the TV deal funding or bring in more revenue streams then Toulouse are a shoe in, I’d even look to bring another french club onboard subject to facilities etc BUT somebody somewhere needs to address the cost of flights if we are expand internationally.

If the RFL had anything about them they would have approached a budget airline company for sponsorship opportunities to subsidise travel, offering cheap flight deals for fans, it can’t be that difficult to show the amount of potential flight sales. Make it a contra deal whereby all clubs have free return flights during the season. 

Could Easy-Jet not be the sponsor of the “Big Screen” during TV games and display a nice little video before it’s says try or no try?

Edited January 28, 2023 by binosh

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Apologies Leonard that the are RL supporters in Leigh who like discussing RL on a multi club forum like this 

Accepted. 

[Guest]

51 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

As I put , from my limited experience , the claims by some with probably less experience than me that they would draw big crowds was always unlikely 

I agree about clubs paying their own travel , but also understand that club owners will do all they can to maintain their own position within the game 

Which means what goes around come around. And the other clubs should.not forget that. 

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, Madrileño said:

I stopped reading at this point.

You liked a post above that said we shouldn't insult a town (As if that is even possible!), but then fail to respect someone else's post by referring to it as "utter sxxxe".

It's an Internet forum, so it's about opinions. My opinion is that Toulouse in Super League is far more of a destination venue (in terms of hooking new fans into the game, and creating interest/profile around travelling supporters) than places like Bradford, or some other run down west Yorkshire town would. You clearly disagree.... Great. You are entitled to your opinion!! 

 

Quite a snob aren't you, how did you ever get into RL especially in the UK, the roots of our sport was born and raised in those towns filled with the "dark satanic mills" and in the most the game is still populated by these places.,

The mills and pits may have disappeared but the people are still the same, we know what we have but an accident of birth placed us here and as long as you keep insulting our towns you are in fact insulting the people that occupy them, as you say this is an opinionated platform where each can voice their thoughts, so please release your anonymity and tell us where you come from and I can let you know what I think.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, binosh said:

I keep seeing this word “potential”

I could potentially win the EuroMillions next month.

Potentially the people of Toulouse can get behind and support their local Professional Rugby League team, the reality is they don't appear to want one, had they done so this thread would never have surfaced.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

please release your anonymity

I'd assumed Harry Stottle was a clever pun, but you're telling me it's your actual name?

[Madrileño]

7 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

The mills and pits may have disappeared but the people are still the same, we know what we have but an accident of birth placed us here and as long as you keep insulting our towns you are in fact insulting the people that occupy them, as you say this is an opinionated platform where each can voice their thoughts, so please release your anonymity and tell us where you come from and I can let you know what I think.

Not a snob at all. Just don't have a particularly high opinion of some of these towns where League is played in England. Without getting into politics either (I fully appreciate this is not a politics forum) a large number of the people in these towns are politically miles off where I am, and I strongly dislike some of their "values". They probably feel the same about me, I am aware it is a 2 way street.

From NZ bro, but living in Spain for many years. You?

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, barnyia said:

The only place RL gets fans in the northern hemisphere is down the m62 corridor and a few thousand in the south of France, maybe it tells you something about our game, nobody is really interested unless they're born into it, 

Toronto managed to get crowds but was too far away, 

Toulouse are  struggling and have a great set up, but  fans only turned up for the derby or the final when they where playing for something, maybe our game is really struggling and we all have rose tinted spectacles and believe the game is popular because we live in a heart land and it's all over the local papers, and the rugby league websites run by passionate league fans.

Travel outside the m62 corridor and nobody really cares or knows about league, it's the same in France.

Looks like we're in a very bad situation, but who cares I can go to my local derby and see the same people I always see and watch the local players and a few Aussies playing the same local players they play 3 times a season. 

Could it be a local game for local people, change is not good! 

That just about sums up RL barnyia, in that very few who are not born into it can be really bothered with it, I can tell you this first hand I have travelled the length and breadth of Britain and discussed and promoted the game at every opportunity and all over, it simply does not travel very well.

[redjonn]

13 hours ago, Hello said:

This thread summarises nicely everything that fans from any of the many sports that have/continue to succesfully spread themselves around the globe  (football, golf, cricket, basketball, rugby union etc) need to read to understand why rugby league is not only failing to expand, but actually disappearing.  

 

I would agree that those sports have a wider global/WW foot print, some more than others. Never-the-less I do not think it was because the relative sports administration in this country created and drove that spread.

The relative sports country administrators drove their own sports in their countries building on the interest and demand in their own countries. They of course joined wider European or Global administrators and their sports wider competitions that further drove interest and demand.  They first focused on the strength of their own country sports foremost. 

This thread like many on this forum seem to put all the blame on the RFL for the little  interest elsewhere.   

I would love the sport to be on same level of the sports mentioned but reality is we need to focus on strengthening the current footprint here, even if it is a regional or M62 sport. Otherwise the sport here totally disappears. We need a strong footprint in the regional reality we have from which we can spread further. So the reality is were should the focus be as currently it seems to me its about saving the sport in this country as it is, otherwise it disappears before we can breakout of our regional glue. Despite what should have been done before, we have to focus on the here and now and package what a great local sport connected to local communities it is before we enter the glitzy world sport we want it to ultimately be.  

I enjoy the sport but I can't get away from the fact that ultimately its going to end up like the NFL in America. That is NRL in Australia with their de-facto club or origin world champions.  Unless we just focus on strengthening the all-be-it regional sport we have before we worry about else where. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by redjonn

[iffleyox]

38 minutes ago, binosh said:

If IMG can improve the TV deal funding or bring in more revenue streams then Toulouse are a shoe in, I’d even look to bring another french club onboard subject to facilities etc BUT somebody somewhere needs to address the cost of flights if we are expand internationally.

If the RFL had anything about them they would have approached a budget airline company for sponsorship opportunities to subsidise travel, offering cheap flight deals for fans, it can’t be that difficult to show the amount of potential flight sales. Make it a contra deal whereby all clubs have free return flights during the season. 

Could Easy-Jet not be the sponsor of the “Big Screen” during TV games and display a nice little video before it’s says try or no try?

Given Flybe have in the last 24 hours demonstrated the state of play in the budget end of the aviation industry I think we might be approaching the end of cheap flights, never mind budget airlines wanting to fly people around for free. The big push from easyJet is currently package holidays - flights alone isn’t enough any more to make money.

i don’t want to be overly negative, but since 2020 airlines are probably no longer the partner you want, or in a position to want to be.

[Harry Stottle]

24 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I'd assumed Harry Stottle was a clever pun, but you're telling me it's your actual name?

No but it is as plain as the nose on your face where I come from, that has never been hidden, and that is what we are talking about, locations isn't it?

Mrs Stottle agrees.

[Archie Gordon]

Could someone closer to all this give us their thoughts on whether Sarrazain's departure is something planned, something done in reaction to the 2022 losses, something existential to TO, nothing to see here?

This seems to me the significant thing - not the argument over whether TO should have paid SL airfares (important though that is).

[Harry Stottle]

23 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Not a snob at all. Just don't have a particularly high opinion of some of these towns where League is played in England. Without getting into politics either (I fully appreciate this is not a politics forum) a large number of the people in these towns are politically miles off where I am, and I strongly dislike some of their "values". They probably feel the same about me, I am aware it is a 2 way street.

From NZ bro, but living in Spain for many years. You?

One of the places you despise born and bred in Leigh, how many of these bleak places have you actually visited, or do you just type cast each into one homogeneous mass?

And yes I have been to both North and South Island NZ, and made many visits to Spain, all over the Costa's and the north and Madrid on 7/8 occasions.

[Madrileño]

18 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

how many of these bleak places have you actually visited, or do you just type cast each into one homogeneous mass?

Loads. I love watching League. 

And... no.

My opinion is based very much on observations and interactions. The sport will never grow in the UK if it remains limited to these lower decile towns. You can believe otherwise if you like, but the wider UK public are too aspirational to get behind Leigh vs Castleford en masse.