Crowd expectancies

[overtheborder]

11 minutes ago, binosh said:

As a leigh fan this is one of the more exciting facets of doing well consistently in SL, something that we haven’t done before.

I believe with a prolonged run at the top level (if we can achieve it) we could target an average of 8000 within 2 years and possibly even 10000 within 5 years, these are the kind of targets I would be setting at the club with the new season memberships packages, rebrand, Match day experience and fanzone.

Even more exciting for Leigh is the fact they've got some really "sellable" games around them, especially if they're giving teams like Wigan, Warrington, St Helens, Salford etc. a game. Add to that a reasonable league position and suddenly games against further-away sides like Catalans, Leeds and Huddersfield look exciting also in terms of maybe being close in terms of league position.

[overtheborder]

2 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Yep ...Leigh has looked box office on telly....with the resultant benefit to all clubs and the game 

More needed 

Salford has looked bad......just don't think they have any excuses for it ..successful and exciting team but whatever they are doing to market the game is not working....they genuinely need to get some ideas from Degsy 

Wakey's new stand will be interesting ....are their fans going to stay behind the sticks and leave it empty?

 

Speaking personally as an away fan Salford's single biggest problem in terms of attendance IMO is the location of the ground. It's awkward on public transport and there isn't much around it. I'm not sure what it's like for driving there for an RL game but I remember going to a Sale RU game pre-COVID and we had to park a way away from the ground and get a shuttle bus.

Home fans might love the location which is fair enough, I just don't see the appeal.

[The Masked Poster]

I think there’s a danger of being in the “tyranny of low expectations” territory here. There is no reason why a well performing Huddersfield could not attract crowds of say, 9k. Sure, it’s not as easy as clicking your fingers - it involves work. 

But just setting bar so low and being chuffed with that or slightly more does more harm than good. It’s like you’d be saying “it’s only Huddersfield, what do you expect?”. 

Expectations of 5k can easily turn into 4k…..then, “well 3.5k isn’t *that* bad”….and the spiral goes on. 

[daz39]

6 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I think there’s a danger of being in the “tyranny of low expectations” territory here. There is no reason why a well performing Huddersfield could not attract crowds of say, 9k. Sure, it’s not as easy as clicking your fingers - it involves work. 

But just setting bar so low and being chuffed with that or slightly more does more harm than good. It’s like you’d be saying “it’s only Huddersfield, what do you expect?”. 

Expectations of 5k can easily turn into 4k…..then, “well 3.5k isn’t *that* bad”….and the spiral goes on. 

Awell performing Huddersfield has never attracted crowds of 9,000, there is no precedent for that to happen, if these people are going to come why haven't they already done so before?

[The Masked Poster]

4 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Awell performing Huddersfield has never attracted crowds of 9,000, there is no precedent for that to happen, if these people are going to come why haven't they already done so before?

The crowds when you won the LLS weren’t bad. It could be done again and I hope it is.
As for where they are going to come from, there’s a lot of people in the Huddersfield area who have never been to a RL game of any description, try some of them. 
 

I aren’t under any misapprehension about the task being easy but just accepting mediocrity never ends well, either in life or this scenario. 

[daz39]

9 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

The crowds when you won the LLS weren’t bad. It could be done again and I hope it is.
As for where they are going to come from, there’s a lot of people in the Huddersfield area who have never been to a RL game of any description, try some of them. 
 

I aren’t under any misapprehension about the task being easy but just accepting mediocrity never ends well, either in life or this scenario. 

Our crowds went down and have continued to do so after winning the LLS.

[The Masked Poster]

Just now, daz39 said:

Our crowds went down and have continued to do so after winning the LLS.

I’m not disputing that. I’m saying it can be done.

 

[daz39]

8 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I’m not disputing that. I’m saying it can be done.

 

It can but there's nothing previously or in the future to suggest it will happen, i suppose this goes back to the original post as in expectancies, should we expect 9,000 watching Huddersfield when historically it has never been done, it's like saying a well performing Wigan should expect 20,000 watching them, a figure they've never achieved.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, binosh said:

2 years and possibly even 10000 within 5 years

Pretty tall order that Binosh, Leigh has a population of 45,000 (2021 census) if it was just Leigh folk alone that would be near 23% attending that would not happen, if we can get 7000 Leythers in that would be 15% - probably only Cas with a very similar population gets anywhere close to this - which is a great return, it all depends what the opposition bring to boost it up.

As an example Wigan population 107,000 last season Average 12,500 so under 12% including away fans, on the same respect Leeds population 800,000 averaged 13,000 last year so only just over 1.5% also including away fans. 

So if Leigh can acheive 10,000 average as you predict demographically they would probably be the best supported team.

[Fevrover]

18 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

I would say higher.

I think that any club fancying themselves as Cat A should see 8k as a minimum average and - borrowing from another thread - ought to be able to deliver one event game per year at 20k+.

How can Wakefield, Hull Kr, Cas, get 20k when grounds aren't big enough?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I genuinely don't know how Hull are maintaining such crowds. The team have been a shambles for a long time. There was very little presence in the primary schools I worked in beyond the odd session. The fan experience on match day is genuinely shocking (even basics like the mascots being available for the kids at half time seems too difficult!).

I can only think that a long history, presence in the local media and a decent stadium in a decent location are the only things needed to attract crowds because we aren't doing much else that I can see. I might be being a tad unfair though.

[binosh]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Pretty tall order that Binosh, Leigh has a population of 45,000 (2021 census) if it was just Leigh folk alone that would be near 23% attending that would not happen, if we can get 7000 Leythers in that would be 15% - probably only Cas with a very similar population gets anywhere close to this - which is a great return, it all depends what the opposition bring to boost it up.

As an example Wigan population 107,000 last season Average 12,500 so under 12% including away fans, on the same respect Leeds population 800,000 averaged 13,000 last year so only just over 1.5% also including away fans. 

So if Leigh can acheive 10,000 average as you predict demographically they would probably be the best supported team.

I’m not saying it wouldn’t be a tall order but I have always believed the key to our crowds is a sustained period at the top table. If we can build on the current average which by my reckoning is circa 8000 (7500 Saints/8500 Salford) then 10,000 would be a sensible target to go for.

Derek is one for going big so to speak and he seems hell bent on the club growing. If the match days continue to be an event, the team is competitive, away teams bring a decent following (love an atmosphere) we sign correctly, then I don’t see why we can’t strive for 10k nothing wrong with having ambition. I’d love an academy/reserves team aswell.

Ideally we want to be selling out and incrementally growing the memberships which needs to be pushed through the schools and amateur teams including girls/womens.

Big numbers I know but why not?

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by binosh

[Chris22]

I'm not sure Saints have ever averaged 15,000 crowds. The highest I can recall us ever averaging was 14,000 in our first year at Langtree Park.

[Harry Stottle]

11 minutes ago, binosh said:

I’m not saying it wouldn’t be a tall order but I have always believed the key to our crowds is a sustained period at the top table. If we can build on the current average which by my reckoning is circa 8000 (7500 Saints/8500 Salford) then 10,000 would be a sensible target to go for.

Derek is one for going big so to speak and he seems hell bent on the club growing. If the match days continue to be an event, the team is competitive, away teams bring a decent following (love an atmosphere) we sign correctly, then I don’t see why we can’t strive for 10k nothing wrong with having ambition. I’d love an academy/reserves team aswell.

Ideally we want to be selling out and incrementally growing the memberships which needs to be pushed through the schools and amateur teams including girls/womens.

Big numbers I know but why not?

 

I reckon we have about 5 to 5,500 fans maybe pushing it to 6,000 who could be relied on with a winning culture, you qoute Saints this season with 7,500 In attendance there was at least 2,000 Saints fans in that night, Saints are a top fixture for us, so why under 5,500 home fans for a visit of the World Champions and the added entertainment which I am told boosts the crowds.

I am in know way being critical of your ambition Binosh, and I hope you are correct, but as I stated previously if we can get 7,000 Leythers to attend that would be absolutely fantastic.

As a comparrison when we had the Team in 1981/82 that contained Woods, Drummond (Bolton by birth but Leigh in RL terms), Martyn, Bilsbury, Donlan, Pyke, Wilkinson, Hogan, Tabern all Leythers all regulars that Leigh folk could identify with in the team which was at the top of the tree as RL Champions we averaged 6,300 inc away fans, granted not many away fans came in those days in fact Leigh were 3rd in the attendance list behind both Hull Clubs. So in my opinion we will be pretty constant with those figures with a moderately succesful club, but again I hope your prediction is better than mine. 

[The Masked Poster]

2 hours ago, daz39 said:

It can but there's nothing previously or in the future to suggest it will happen, i suppose this goes back to the original post as in expectancies, should we expect 9,000 watching Huddersfield when historically it has never been done, it's like saying a well performing Wigan should expect 20,000 watching them, a figure they've never achieved.

No it's not the same thing. Wigan have attracted good crowds and continue to get decent ones. Certainly their history helps with this but if they just put the cue on the rack and think it will never change, they'll find different in future. 

I'm not having a dig at Huddersfield, it isn't easy fighting indifference but they should aim to do as well as possible and not just be happy to just about survive. 

Hope they can get some decent crowds. 

[daz39]

1 minute ago, The Masked Poster said:

No it's not the same thing. Wigan have attracted good crowds and continue to get decent ones. Certainly their history helps with this but if they just put the cue on the rack and think it will never change, they'll find different in future. 

I'm not having a dig at Huddersfield, it isn't easy fighting indifference but they should aim to do as well as possible and not just be happy to just about survive. 

Hope they can get some decent crowds. 

Why is it not the same? you say there's no reason why Huddersfield shouldn't get crowds double what they currently have with no substance behind it but Wigan or anyone else shouldn't?

I am presuming you mean an average gat eof 9,000 rather than a one-off attendance?

 

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

I think there’s a danger of being in the “tyranny of low expectations” territory here. There is no reason why a well performing Huddersfield could not attract crowds of say, 9k. Sure, it’s not as easy as clicking your fingers - it involves work. 

But just setting bar so low and being chuffed with that or slightly more does more harm than good. It’s like you’d be saying “it’s only Huddersfield, what do you expect?”. 

Expectations of 5k can easily turn into 4k…..then, “well 3.5k isn’t *that* bad”….and the spiral goes on. 

If there's one empty seat , you could have done better 

It's as simple as that 

[Mr Frisky]

2 hours ago, daz39 said:

It can but there's nothing previously or in the future to suggest it will happen, i suppose this goes back to the original post as in expectancies, should we expect 9,000 watching Huddersfield when historically it has never been done, it's like saying a well performing Wigan should expect 20,000 watching them, a figure they've never achieved.

Apart from Easter games V Saints of course.

I'm sure Hudds got a few 9000+ crowds around the LLS days as well.

[daz39]

13 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Apart from Easter games V Saints of course.

I'm sure Hudds got a few 9000+ crowds around the LLS days as well.

We've had plenty of 9,000 and a few 10,000 too but we've never averaged above it.

[koli]

2 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I'm not sure Saints have ever averaged 15,000 crowds. The highest I can recall us ever averaging was 14,000 in our first year at Langtree Park.

In the 1950s…as did Huddersfield and Oldham in those days.

[koli]

The first season at the new stadium with 14k was the highest Saints average since the early 60s.

[The Masked Poster]

40 minutes ago, daz39 said:

We've had plenty of 9,000 and a few 10,000 too but we've never averaged above it.

There has to be a reason why they achieved that. What were they and can it be copied again? 

I get your point that it is difficult but it's not impossible. 

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

If there's one empty seat , you could have done better 

It's as simple as that 

Well yes but we would be well happy if RL clubs were in that situation eh? 

[bratman]

As others have said, acceptable should be year on year increase. Year on year decrease should be unacceptable.

[daz39]

58 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

There has to be a reason why they achieved that. What were they and can it be copied again? 

I get your point that it is difficult but it's not impossible. 

As i said previously Sunday afternoons attracted families, it wasn't unusual to see 3 or 4 grandparents, 3or 4 parents, and kids all attending together, Sunday lunch out then down to the rugby, also back then the game was a lot more entertaining than it is these days.

We had a very good side, top 4 finishes, cup final, cup semi finals etc we then made the decision to move to Friday nights, our squad was weakened, we struggled in the bottom half, those family groups got less and less till they stopped coming altogether and have probably got very little if any interest in the rugby now, those young kids who would be late teens or early 20's now are lost, some of them have kids of their own who won't grow up being Giants fans.

I used to travel on a coach with 50 others to away games, i'd hazard a guess that 75% of those don't even go to home games anymore.

Huddersfield's crowds are literally it's hardcore and no matter what the club do they simply cannot attract these people back or gain new followers.