Attendance thread

[Damien]

Huddersfield offer for next season and obviously going for the cheap ticket option to boost attendances. £7 a game for u30s seems absurdly cheap and the pricing seems a little daft to me and is bound to alienate some, as can already be seen in the comments:

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Damien

[Josef K]

1 hour ago, RayCee said:

Interesting stats. I put together a list that is close to those figures.

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/

I think your figures are spot on RayCee.
I have sacked off my mate at work. 
I do enjoy looking at your blog it is really interesting. I just wish id have kept hold of all my old Rothmans, and then id have known myself what the average top tier attendances were in the good old days of the 80’s-1995. 

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, RayCee said:

Interesting stats. I put together a list that is close to those figures.

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/

Thanks as always Ray, brilliant stuff. I also read your Q Cup article, interesting to see the Ipswich Jets are so poor, despite some saying they should be the 18th NRL team. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

East Stand and all other standing tickets are already sold out at Hull KR, and only 250 home fans seats left across these 6 blocks here. 

Don’t know how Leigh have done with the 2 blocks we’ve allocated them (900 seats) but it’s going to be full to bursting in Craven Park on Friday. Anyone remember the days when play-off games didn’t sell “because it wasn’t part of the season ticket”? Times they are a changin’ ️

 

[Barley Mow]

9 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

East Stand and all other standing tickets are already sold out at Hull KR, and only 250 home fans seats left across these 6 blocks here. 

Don’t know how Leigh have done with the 2 blocks we’ve allocated them (900 seats) but it’s going to be full to bursting in Craven Park on Friday. Anyone remember the days when play-off games didn’t sell “because it wasn’t part of the season ticket”? Times they are a changin’ ️

 

Is that a rugby union field they're playing on this week!?!

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

22 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Is that a rugby union field they're playing on this week!?!

Aye, the joys of Ticketmaster 

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, RayCee said:

Interesting stats. I put together a list that is close to those figures.

https://rugbyl.blogspot.com/

The two relegation threatened sides saw a decline in attendances despite the relegation spot only being confirmed late in the year?

Say it ain't so. These battles draw in the fans and are the lifeblood of the game.

[The Masked Poster]

10 hours ago, Damien said:

Huddersfield offer for next season and obviously going for the cheap ticket option to boost attendances. £7 a game for u30s seems absurdly cheap and the pricing seems a little daft to me and is bound to alienate some, as can already be seen in the comments:

 

I wish Huddersfield every success in this. But I’m fairly sure this dirt cheap approach has been tried before by them and others - and didn’t really work. 
It might attract a few new fans looking to save a few quid but if it’s just a case of “have a free/cheap ticket” then that by itself doesn’t seem to work.
 

In conjunction with other things it possibly might but not on its own. If people are under the impression that something is of low value or quality, they are less likely to value it themselves, as we’ve seen. 

[Dovster]

24 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The two relegation threatened sides saw a decline in attendances despite the relegation spot only being confirmed late in the year?

Say it ain't so. These battles draw in the fans and are the lifeblood of the game.

Not sure thhat is a fair compaison you make.

A team will always lose support if they are consistantly getting well beaten.

A proper comparison can be made next year when a team is getting beaten and there is no relegation.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Dovster said:

Not sure thhat is a fair compaison you make.

A team will always lose support if they are consistantly getting well beaten.

A proper comparison can be made next year when a team is getting beaten and there is no relegation.

It's not a proper comparison, absolutely agree, but it is reflective of how most relegation fights pan out. I only make the point because some folk will insist on drawing attention to the one or two times that one or two games within that had bigger crowds than usual.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

10 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I wish Huddersfield every success in this. But I’m fairly sure this dirt cheap approach has been tried before by them and others - and didn’t really work. 
It might attract a few new fans looking to save a few quid but if it’s just a case of “have a free/cheap ticket” then that by itself doesn’t seem to work.
 

In conjunction with other things it possibly might but not on its own. If people are under the impression that something is of low value or quality, they are less likely to value it themselves, as we’ve seen. 

Couldn't agree more, it's a race to the bottom and the result is always failure. 

- You annoy people with radical offers like "under 30's £7 a game" that create big price-steps between segments. There's already >30 year old fans complaining their season tickets are expensive (when by any other measure they're quantifiably not)

- If you price too low you are saying "this product isn't great, it's something you can take or leave at will", and people don't build a meaningful connection based on value. Even impacts retention: If you're only "wasting" £7 by not attending a game you've paid for, there's less of a lock-in to drive consistent attendance. 

I could go on, there's at least 10 reasons why this is a flawed initiative, but this stuff isn't at the rocket science end of pricing strategy so why bother we all know it. Pricing strategies like this are for limited sampling campaigns, for one-off games with some sort of specific, tactical purpose. Season tickets are the last place to do it. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

East Stand and all other standing tickets are already sold out at Hull KR, and only 250 home fans seats left across these 6 blocks here. 

Don’t know how Leigh have done with the 2 blocks we’ve allocated them (900 seats) but it’s going to be full to bursting in Craven Park on Friday. Anyone remember the days when play-off games didn’t sell “because it wasn’t part of the season ticket”? Times they are a changin’ ️

 

I genuinely hope that's true, but I think the reality is closer to the fact that there are always sporadic decent crowds depending on the feelgood element created by that club. A little like we sometimes get thousands of away fans for these games. 

I suppose we'll see over the coming two weeks. But Hull KR are on a high, so you'd expect a decent turnout. 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Couldn't agree more, it's a race to the bottom and the result is always failure. 

- You annoy people with radical offers like "under 30's £7 a game" that create big price-steps between segments. There's already >30 year old fans complaining their season tickets are expensive (when by any other measure they're quantifiably not)

- If you price too low you are saying "this product isn't great, it's something you can take or leave at will", and people don't build a meaningful connection based on value. Even impacts retention: If you're only "wasting" £7 by not attending a game you've paid for, there's less of a lock-in to drive consistent attendance. 

I could go on, there's at least 10 reasons why this is a flawed initiative, but this stuff isn't at the rocket science end of pricing strategy so why bother we all know it. Pricing strategies like this are for limited sampling campaigns, for one-off games with some sort of specific, tactical purpose. Season tickets are the last place to do it. 

I'm not sure I get the under 30's price band. I think there is clear logic for students, u21s, families, pensioners etc. but I'm mot sure why a 28 year old fan is discounted. 

[The Masked Poster]

9 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Couldn't agree more, it's a race to the bottom and the result is always failure. 

- You annoy people with radical offers like "under 30's £7 a game" that create big price-steps between segments. There's already >30 year old fans complaining their season tickets are expensive (when by any other measure they're quantifiably not)

- If you price too low you are saying "this product isn't great, it's something you can take or leave at will", and people don't build a meaningful connection based on value. Even impacts retention: If you're only "wasting" £7 by not attending a game you've paid for, there's less of a lock-in to drive consistent attendance. 

I could go on, there's at least 10 reasons why this is a flawed initiative, but this stuff isn't at the rocket science end of pricing strategy so why bother we all know it. Pricing strategies like this are for limited sampling campaigns, for one-off games with some sort of specific, tactical purpose. Season tickets are the last place to do it. 

Sadly, you're absolutely right. 

And as you point out, it might be a good gimmick as a one off....maybe say if Huddersfield Town got relegated and they offered £5 admission to HT ST holders or something, or any variation thereof. 

But as a standalone marketing strategy, it's been shown time and time again to not work. Bradford offered cheap tickets and even free tickets.....but the difference was that it didn't end there, people coming to the games felt part of something new and even if they weren't die hard RL fans, the kids had fun and it was a good day (or evening) out. If they'd just stayed as Bradford Northern and said "Free tickets here" .....on a rainy night in November, it might not have worked so much. 

[The Masked Poster]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure I get the under 30's price band. I think there is clear logic for students, u21s, families, pensioners etc. but I'm mot sure why a 28 year old fan is discounted. 

It does seem totally random.

I expect some focus group has told them that there are X number of people under 30 in the region and are maybe trying to tap into that. Which sounds reasonably logical but I suspect will only alienate others (specifically 31 year olds) 

[Dovster]

30 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's not a proper comparison, absolutely agree, but it is reflective of how most relegation fights pan out. I only make the point because some folk will insist on drawing attention to the one or two times that one or two games within that had bigger crowds than usual.

I'm of the opinion that jeopardy does increase interest. This appears to increases attendances towards the end of the season.

Plus it will be interesting to see how the Championship crowds hold up without automatic promotion next season.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure I get the under 30's price band. I think there is clear logic for students, u21s, families, pensioners etc. but I'm mot sure why a 28 year old fan is discounted. 

It's irrational. I get that you want to capture a younger audience, to build a future supporter base who'll be valuable for years. But if you run the numbers on that age segment it is generally less price sensitive than other age groups. Let's look at the key youth marketing personas >

- Under 16's are paid for by parents, discounting makes sense here because 1) all additional money is margin additive: You have the family as a customer, the hard work is done and their adult family members are already paying full price, and 2) the family is already paying a large price collectively so any extra needs to be good value for them to afford it. 

- Under 21s often still in education or training need discounting based on lack of disposable income, as they're earning little (but less likely to attend as part of a family, or at least have parents paying for them, so it comes out of their own small pot).

- But the 21-30 segment is the best age band for full margins. They have a high propensity to spend on entertainment "event" items. Because of the housing cost crisis many still live with parents, or certainly rent rather than own a home, so have less "real world" commitments. It's not realistic to save (for a future home etc), so these days they spend that discretionary income on "fun" rather than save it much more now than ever before. These are the factors behind the expansion of fast fashion, and the proliferation of festivals and other event stuff.

Then when you then get into the 30+ age group you're into the world of adult responsibilities, real-world fixed costs like rent, bills, mortgages, home improvements, increased pension contributions, children etc. etc. etc.  I'm droning on now, but price strategy is one of my gigs so I'm a bit obsessed by it and know there's plenty of research out there Huddersfield were only a google search away from! They've got this all backwards. 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

It's irrational. I get that you want to capture a younger audience, to build a future supporter base who'll be valuable for years. But if you run the numbers on that age segment it is generally less price sensitive than other age groups. Let's look at the key youth marketing personas >

- Under 16's are paid for by parents, discounting makes sense here because 1) all additional money is margin additive: You have the family as a customer, the hard work is done and their adult family members are already paying full price, and 2) the family is already paying a large price collectively so any extra needs to be good value for them to afford it. 

- Under 21s often still in education or training need discounting based on lack of disposable income, as they're earning little (but less likely to attend as part of a family, or at least have parents paying for them, so it comes out of their own small pot).

- But the 21-30 segment is the best age band for full margins. They have a high propensity to spend on entertainment "event" items. Because of the housing cost crisis many still live with parents, or certainly rent rather than own a home, so have less "real world" commitments. It's not realistic to save (for a future home etc), so these days they spend that discretionary income on "fun" rather than save it much more now than ever before. These are the factors behind the expansion of fast fashion, and the proliferation of festivals and other event stuff.

Then when you then get into the 30+ age group you're into the world of adult responsibilities, real-world fixed costs like rent, bills, mortgages, home improvements, increased pension contributions, children etc. etc. etc.  I'm droning on now, but price strategy is one of my gigs so I'm a bit obsessed by it and know there's plenty of research out there Huddersfield were only a google search away from! They've got this all backwards. 

Spot on, it makes little sense. If you want to target under 30s, engage with them, it doesn't always have to be price. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

46 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I genuinely hope that's true, but I think the reality is closer to the fact that there are always sporadic decent crowds depending on the feelgood element created by that club. A little like we sometimes get thousands of away fans for these games. 

I suppose we'll see over the coming two weeks. But Hull KR are on a high, so you'd expect a decent turnout. 

Yes agreed. When we've had 4 home play-offs in a row it'd die down. But from a Rovers perspective moments like this are the opportunity to capture or solidify the next generation of fans for years to come. Hull FC supporters always go on about how their attendances are better than ours, but you can't underestimate how Hull KR spending the first decade of Super League in the lower leagues took an entire generation (maybe two generations) of fans away from Rovers.

Even Josh Hodgson supported Wigan when he was at school (and still does), and he grew up in Longhill about 5 minutes walk from the old Craven Park.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Spot on, it makes little sense. If you want to target under 30s, engage with them, it doesn't always have to be price. 

From a marketers perspective, they're actually the most reachable too. Most active online, throw their data around like confetti, and have a high propensity to sample new things - and also to do so in groups rather than alone. 

Honestly, it makes me want to rip my hair out this stuff sometimes. Hopefully IMG will have a word eventually. 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

East Stand and all other standing tickets are already sold out at Hull KR, and only 250 home fans seats left across these 6 blocks here. 

Don’t know how Leigh have done with the 2 blocks we’ve allocated them (900 seats) but it’s going to be full to bursting in Craven Park on Friday. Anyone remember the days when play-off games didn’t sell “because it wasn’t part of the season ticket”? Times they are a changin’ ️

 

Great news.

I'm not sure if people did bemoan the crowds of play off attendances at clubs like Hull KR. I've always felt the issue was more with the bigger clubs that normally see a much greater drop off in crowds for such games.

[daz39]

1 hour ago, The Masked Poster said:

I wish Huddersfield every success in this. But I’m fairly sure this dirt cheap approach has been tried before by them and others - and didn’t really work. 
It might attract a few new fans looking to save a few quid but if it’s just a case of “have a free/cheap ticket” then that by itself doesn’t seem to work.
 

In conjunction with other things it possibly might but not on its own. If people are under the impression that something is of low value or quality, they are less likely to value it themselves, as we’ve seen. 

The low ticket prices don't attract new fans we've found that  out over the years, they are more a reward for existing fans, though saying that the U12's free is a big one as it means some families may come back now with not having to pay for their nippers, i'll be getting my Grandkids one.

Our crowds haven't risen once in the time Ken has been offering cheap tickets so it clearly doesn't attract newbies.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure I get the under 30's price band. I think there is clear logic for students, u21s, families, pensioners etc. but I'm mot sure why a 28 year old fan is discounted. 

To try to get younger people in presumably, if they have an older demographic. 

[Eddie]

56 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

From a marketers perspective, they're actually the most reachable too. Most active online, throw their data around like confetti, and have a high propensity to sample new things - and also to do so in groups rather than alone. 

Honestly, it makes me want to rip my hair out this stuff sometimes. Hopefully IMG will have a word eventually. 

IMG don’t seem to have made much of an impact so far, from the outside it looks like they’ve lost interest. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Dovster said:

I'm of the opinion that jeopardy does increase interest. This appears to increases attendances towards the end of the season.

Plus it will be interesting to see how the Championship crowds hold up without automatic promotion next season.

I'm ambivalent on it - neither believing that P&R is essential in the British sporting landscape nor that franchising is what's needed to drive up standards - but I'm not sure that relegation battles really do drive up attendances, except in very specific circumstances. The usual is far more around prolonged spells of lower crowds.