Attendance thread

[OnStrike]

5 hours ago, meast said:

The topic is about attendances, Huddersfield was brought up because the attendance at Huddersfield was posted.

Most of the last few pages have been about the cup final and ticket prices and coach travel and French teams.

Think he was joking @meast!

[Leyther_Matt]

On 26/07/2023 at 21:57, ATLANTISMAN said:

Would love to see a full house however realistically 

Leigh Leopards 10000

Hull Kr 15000

Batley/Halifax 5000

Neutrals 20000 (Max)

45/50000

Announced 67512

 

Skipped half a dozen pages so apologies if this has been echoed, but there’s the numbers, right there. 

[meast]

5 hours ago, Eddie said:

Loads of empty seats though; shocking, terrible for the game’s image etc

They bring nothing to SL 

[meast]

5 hours ago, OnStrike said:

Think he was joking @meast!

Not so sure going by the 

Never mind, I'm not offended

[Eddie]

44 minutes ago, meast said:

Not so sure going by the 

Never mind, I'm not offended

The was about Hull KR not announcing their attendance, which I find deeply annoying. 

[Josef K]

There was 12,108 at Saints. 

[Eddie]

29 minutes ago, Josef K said:

There was 12,108 at Saints. 

Not bad at all that. 

[meast]

22 hours ago, Eddie said:

The was about Hull KR not announcing their attendance, which I find deeply annoying. 

My apologies then

[Dave T]

It does rather look like ticket sales have slowed right down. They have opened 70k seats, and have a substantial amount still available in the top tier. Small clusters in the other tiers.

Hull KR and Leigh have plenty available in the top tiers too, they just don't really appear to be selling.

Hopefully the whole of the bottom two tiers sellout, which is just over 50k (although I expect plenty of empty hospitality seats). If half of the upper tier are sold, it's heading for 60k. 

 

[Toby Chopra]

49 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It does rather look like ticket sales have slowed right down. They have opened 70k seats, and have a substantial amount still available in the top tier. Small clusters in the other tiers.

Hull KR and Leigh have plenty available in the top tiers too, they just don't really appear to be selling.

Hopefully the whole of the bottom two tiers sellout, which is just over 50k (although I expect plenty of empty hospitality seats). If half of the upper tier are sold, it's heading for 60k. 

 

Yes, That's pretty much what I come to too. If all the middle tier was opened then 60-ish, if not, 50-55.

My sense is the game rightly has a lot of interest in the RL community but most heartland neutrals will watch on TV rather than spend maybe a ton each for a day in London. Anecdotally, are many non-finalist fans on here making the trip from the north?

Judging by the ticketing website, I think the regular southern fanbase early-sale went ok, but that's only about 7-8k max these days.

Beyond that, I'd hoped there'd been a world cup effect, where the profile of the sport had been lifted as such so more casual sports fans would give it a go, but seems not. Would a Wigan-Saints final cut though more? Hard to say.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

33 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Yes, That's pretty much what I come to too. If all the middle tier was opened then 60-ish, if not, 50-55.

My sense is the game rightly has a lot of interest in the RL community but most heartland neutrals will watch on TV rather than spend maybe a ton each for a day in London. Anecdotally, are many non-finalist fans on here making the trip from the north?

Judging by the ticketing website, I think the regular southern fanbase early-sale went ok, but that's only about 7-8k max these days.

Beyond that, I'd hoped there'd been a world cup effect, where the profile of the sport had been lifted as such so more casual sports fans would give it a go, but seems not. Would a Wigan-Saints final cut though more? Hard to say.

 

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

It does rather look like ticket sales have slowed right down. They have opened 70k seats, and have a substantial amount still available in the top tier. Small clusters in the other tiers.

Hull KR and Leigh have plenty available in the top tiers too, they just don't really appear to be selling.

Hopefully the whole of the bottom two tiers sellout, which is just over 50k (although I expect plenty of empty hospitality seats). If half of the upper tier are sold, it's heading for 60k. 

 

The lower two tiers are 50k together. The southern upper is shut so like you say 70k maximum attendance, so it's all a question of how many north upper tickets get sold as to how far over 60,000 it is....

• The RFL have the top 1/3rd rows of the upper tier, so 6,500 seats. Not many of these have gone and I can't rea;;y see many more going now. 
• Rovers now have 1,000 upper tier tickets left, so have sold around 5.5k upper tier tickets of their 6.5k. But I reckon we'll sell the final thousand now we're hitting pay day. 
• Leigh likewise had 6,500 to sell

So that gets us to around 56-57k plus whatever Leigh can sell in the upper tier. My money is it'll start with a 6 but not be much beyond that, but it'll be 10,000 more than last year (that'll be the line), will look good on telly and the place will definitely be bouncing.

There's no getting away from the fact that our sport is currently in the perfect storm combination of:

1. The RFL still can't market their way out of a paper bag, and it's too late to fix that for 2023's final, and...
2. The cost-of-living crisis is a real thing, so discretionary spend luxuries like this are getting cut (amongst the rugby league traditional audience perhaps more than any other)

 

 

 

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

Just one other thing to add: Between 2007 and 2016 the middle tier for the final was “sold” within the initial 10-year ‘Club Wembley’ season ticket, so not generally on sale. But the RFL used to count the full 16,500 in the attendance figures despite it being quite clearly sparsely populated, so I think we can deduct a good 13-14,000 off the published attendances in that decade for like-for-like comparisons of the modern “New Wembley” era. 

It’s not quite as simple as thinking that crowds have fallen off a cliff in the last 6 years. 

[Dave T]

37 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Just one other thing to add: Between 2007 and 2016 the middle tier for the final was “sold” within the initial 10-year ‘Club Wembley’ season ticket, so not generally on sale. But the RFL used to count the full 16,500 in the attendance figures despite it being quite clearly sparsely populated, so I think we can deduct a good 13-14,000 off the published attendances in that decade for like-for-like comparisons of the modern “New Wembley” era. 

It’s not quite as simple as thinking that crowds have fallen off a cliff in the last 6 years. 

That is certainly true, but it is clear that there has been a marked drop. The atmosphere has quietened a fair bit too. 

[JonM]

2 hours ago, Toby Chopra said:

Anecdotally, are many non-finalist fans on here making the trip from the north?

I am - haven't got out of the habit from when I was living down south. Meet up with my sons, their only game of the year when we can't be bothered to play internationals down south.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Just one other thing to add: Between 2007 and 2016 the middle tier for the final was “sold” within the initial 10-year ‘Club Wembley’ season ticket, so not generally on sale. But the RFL used to count the full 16,500 in the attendance figures despite it being quite clearly sparsely populated, so I think we can deduct a good 13-14,000 off the published attendances in that decade for like-for-like comparisons of the modern “New Wembley” era. 

It’s not quite as simple as thinking that crowds have fallen off a cliff in the last 6 years. 

Club Wembley memberships were sold to include the Challenge Cup Final. It was a game included on the ticket as surely as every home league game is on a club’s season ticket.

Because, back in the day when the RFL was confident, the new Wembley was built and marketed as the national stadium for football and rugby league.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

Just now, gingerjon said:

Club Wembley memberships were sold to include the Challenge Cup Final. It was a game included on the ticket as surely as every home league game is on a club’s season ticket.

Because, back in the day when the RFL was confident, the new Wembley was built and marketed as the national stadium for football and rugby league.

Yes that’s right, but let’s not pretend anyone really ever wanted it when they bought the Club Wembley package, or that many turned up! It was deserted up there… and I speak as a bloke whose sat with friends & family in “free” seats there for 10 years from a mixture of employers and friends of friends who didn’t use them. 

I think the underlying trend is more interesting (and addressable) than suddenly thinking an extra 16,000 people stopped going and almost irretrievable… as if some sort of cultural breaking point has taken place. It’s a poor decline in sales, sure, but not as catastrophic as it shows in the stats. Can be fixed. 

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Yes that’s right, but let’s not pretend anyone really ever wanted it when they bought the Club Wembley package, or that many turned up! It was deserted up there… and I speak as a bloke whose sat with friends & family in “free” seats there for 10 years from a mixture of employers and friends of friends who didn’t use them. 

I think the underlying trend is more interesting (and addressable) than suddenly thinking an extra 16,000 people stopped going and almost irretrievable… as if some sort of cultural breaking point has taken place. It’s a poor decline in sales, sure, but not as catastrophic as it shows in the stats. Can be fixed. 

I don't think it's a coincidence that 70k is the target that the RFL have for finals, and how many seats they have open. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't think it's a coincidence that 70k is the target that the RFL have for finals, and how many seats they have open. 

70k is as good as we’ve ever had (as a real, “attendee” number) since the final moved back from Cardiff, so yes I’d agree. They know where the current ceiling is. My concern is they don’t have an effective strategy to sell the additional 10k tickets needed to get to that next stage gate.

We can’t rely on the finalists to bridge the gap, that’s Field of Dreams nonsense. It has to come from advance sales. I genuinely don’t think that it’s a Herculean task for competent sales and marketing team to be honest… but I’m yet to see evidence that we have one.

[Dave T]

54 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

70k is as good as we’ve ever had (as a real, “attendee” number) since the final moved back from Cardiff, so yes I’d agree. They know where the current ceiling is. My concern is they don’t have an effective strategy to sell the additional 10k tickets needed to get to that next stage gate.

We can’t rely on the finalists to bridge the gap, that’s Field of Dreams nonsense. It has to come from advance sales. I genuinely don’t think that it’s a Herculean task for competent sales and marketing team to be honest… but I’m yet to see evidence that we have one.

I think the peak number is slightly higher than the 70k, based on capacities, but probably not too much. 

I do think Wembley is a poor stadium overall, I think they've made it too big, and not particularly impressive facilities wise in many areas. 

[Josef K]

4 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

 

The lower two tiers are 50k together. The southern upper is shut so like you say 70k maximum attendance, so it's all a question of how many north upper tickets get sold as to how far over 60,000 it is....

• The RFL have the top 1/3rd rows of the upper tier, so 6,500 seats. Not many of these have gone and I can't rea;;y see many more going now. 
• Rovers now have 1,000 upper tier tickets left, so have sold around 5.5k upper tier tickets of their 6.5k. But I reckon we'll sell the final thousand now we're hitting pay day. 
• Leigh likewise had 6,500 to sell

So that gets us to around 56-57k plus whatever Leigh can sell in the upper tier. My money is it'll start with a 6 but not be much beyond that, but it'll be 10,000 more than last year (that'll be the line), will look good on telly and the place will definitely be bouncing.

There's no getting away from the fact that our sport is currently in the perfect storm combination of:

1. The RFL still can't market their way out of a paper bag, and it's too late to fix that for 2023's final, and...
2. The cost-of-living crisis is a real thing, so discretionary spend luxuries like this are getting cut (amongst the rugby league traditional audience perhaps more than any other)

 

 

 

 

If Saints had have got to the Final i would’ve had to give it a miss as i just haven’t got cash. I guess it’s like that for a fair percentage of supporters with money being so tight no matter who you follow. 

[Leyther_Matt]

This is where it pays off to make investment gambles

[The Hallucinating Goose]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think the peak number is slightly higher than the 70k, based on capacities, but probably not too much. 

I do think Wembley is a poor stadium overall, I think they've made it too big, and not particularly impressive facilities wise in many areas. 

I have to agree, I've only been to the new Wembley once and I really wasn't impressed. I too thought it was too big and cavernous and as a result of this size I actually felt the noise dissipated out of the ground rather than being contained in and thus didn't have much of an atmosphere. The fans are also far too far away from the pitch, you certainly didn't feel really involved in the game and when your team are down the other end of the pitch you feel like you need a pair of binoculars to even see clearly what's going on. 

[The Masked Poster]

13 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Club Wembley memberships were sold to include the Challenge Cup Final. It was a game included on the ticket as surely as every home league game is on a club’s season ticket.

Because, back in the day when the RFL was confident, the new Wembley was built and marketed as the national stadium for football and rugby league.

Thanks for the reminder, I’d actually forgotten that this was a thing. But this was very much the shtick that was said at the time.
Even if in reality it was the national football stadium, we at least had enough confidence then to say that.
Now we’d possibly shuffle our feet and cough and say “excuse me, can we play our cup final here? If it’s alright of course”

[The Masked Poster]

10 hours ago, Josef K said:

If Saints had have got to the Final i would’ve had to give it a miss as i just haven’t got cash. I guess it’s like that for a fair percentage of supporters with money being so tight no matter who you follow. 

Honestly, I think this angle is overplayed. This is not to say many people aren’t finding things a struggle financially, they are, but it doesn’t seem to affect most other sports at their big games. We rely on too small a fan base, that’s more the problem than anything else. 

[Toby Chopra]

9 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I have to agree, I've only been to the new Wembley once and I really wasn't impressed. I too thought it was too big and cavernous and as a result of this size I actually felt the noise dissipated out of the ground rather than being contained in and thus didn't have much of an atmosphere. The fans are also far too far away from the pitch, you certainly didn't feel really involved in the game and when your team are down the other end of the pitch you feel like you need a pair of binoculars to even see clearly what's going on. 

The front row is closer to the pitch than at the old Wembley, and in my experience the views and atmosphere in the lower bowl and Club tier are top notch.

The upper tier is the issue and yes, it's a long way from the back row behind the posts to other other end. And if it's not full, that upper tier can be a bit echoey and quiet. 

Let's see how it goes. I'd rather we give every chance to make Wembley work, post COVID, post crisis and with time for IMG to push a new format, if that's the road we're going down.

Because once we give up the historical and emotional link with Wembley, it'll be gone for good, so we need to be sure.