Report: 2025 World Cup on verge of collapse

[Gerrumonside ref]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

That is essentially the accepted norm and has been since 2000. That changed when the USA bid and no one else showed any inclination to host 2025.

Yes, I agree - how concrete is that USA bid?

[Madrileño]

3 hours ago, Gomersall said:

Because they weren’t good enough? Fixed draws so that certain teams are guaranteed to meet each other aren’t for me personally. 

You had a fixed draw this time!! The organisers were desperate for England to get to the final, so they avoided the Big2. 

[Henson Park Old Firm]

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/new-zealand-express-desire-of-interest-to-co-host-2025-world-cup

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Yes, I agree - how concrete is that USA bid?

The USA bid that collapsed before the tournament was then given to France?

It’s less real than Toronto Wolfpack’s 2023 schedule.

[Damien]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

Yes, I agree - how concrete is that USA bid?

The Moore Sports bid fell through after the NRL had scuppered the Denver test and Moore Sports lost money, and the RFL and NZRL never got what they were promised either. Obviously it can't have been that strong to fall apart on the back of that. That said perhaps he also got a taste of the obstacles he would have to face too and that they would make the hosting impossible, as the proposed yearly US tests were meant to be part of the build up.

Any non England and Australia bid needs to be set in stone with cast iron guarantees before we deviate from that. I thought that was the case with France but obviously not. I think that was announced too early and before the organisers had got their side of the bargain in place.

[Gerrumonside ref]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

The Moore Sports bid fell through after the NRL had scuppered the Denver test and Moore Sports lost money, and the RFL and NZRL never got what they were promised either. Obviously it can't have been that strong to fall apart on the back of that. That said perhaps he also got a taste of the obstacles he would have to face too and that they would make the hosting impossible, as the proposed yearly US tests were meant to be part of the build up.

Any non England and Australia bid needs to be set in stone with cast iron guarantees before we deviate from that. I thought that was the case with France but obviously not. I think that was announced too early and before the organisers had got their side of the bargain in place.

Thanks, totally agree with your summary.

[The Partisan]

Certainly a dampener for the international game today....but as a code we are resilient and will find our way through to a brighter future.

We lost the traditional " one event " world cup in the 80's after saturation in the 70's but kicked started them again mid 90's (1995) with the five events of 2000, 2008, 2013, 2017 and 2021* building on that rekindling. 

Throw in the rise in competition from a number of countries to challenge Australia and I don't think all is lost on the international scene. 

If the 2025 edition does head to Oceania I would like to see the same countries from 2017 host ...then one Pacific nation be chosen from a tender process.  If they want a game (or two)  ...  governments need to bid for it.  

Restrict it to just the Men's tournament. 16 teams retained

Womens tournament to be a stand alone tournament on a 4 year cycle commencing 2026. (Think that avoids football and union ?).

Be bold with the ever growing womens game and take it to new frontiers or at least those close..ish to a RL country in either distance or time zone.  Make it the flagship for the code's rise and global recognition. 

Japan and Korea .... Spain and Italy ..... USA / Canada acting as co-hosts. 

Wheelchair and Physical Disability Cups to be run together as a seperate event.  

Scrap the youth RLWC idea for now.

Concentrate on building up regional equivalents in Oceania, Asia, Americas, Africa etc.  Continue the good work so far with the European version. Maybe split into divisions ... Cup, Trophy, Plate. 

As for France ....hold off till 2034 for their future involvement. Celebrate their centenary with a Mens tournament...and an invitational emerging nations mens and/or womens tournament to recognise the new nations to take up the sport...just like France had 100 years before.  (6 teams max.  2 pools of 3. Winners play off. Preferably from various global regions). 

2029 ?  Maybe we have an emerging nations regional champions tournament only if no interest from UK / Oz.  Balkans in NH, South America for SH as venues. 

Disappointing France 2025 is off as this Aussie was heading over to mix international rugby league support with family history celebrations.

Might just be an earlier European holiday and a Super League GF now. 

Obviously we are down today as a code ... but we can recover and get stronger. 

We have proved this time after time.

Did we ditch the Ashes in the 80's after years of total Kangaroos dominance '79 - '86 ? No ... GB got stronger. 

 

[Gomersall]

31 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

You had a fixed draw this time!! The organisers were desperate for England to get to the final, so they avoided the Big2. 

You know what I mean. Stop being obnoxious When they deliberately have England and Australia in the same group so they can play each other in the opening game and then only meet each other again in the final.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Gomersall

[Harry Stottle]

41 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Yes, I agree - how concrete is that USA bid?

Concrete?

It was Gravel and Mud!

[Damien]

On the positive I think if 2025 can be replaced by a World Cup hosted by Australia, New Zealand and PNG it can be fantastic. I think any games in the PI nations are pie in the Sky. With the rise now of Samoa and the increase in PI players in the NRL it could be a fantastic occasion. You also now have the new Western Sydney Stadium and Sydney Football Stadium and some tremendous new venues in Australia to utilise that are made for RL.

2017 had some great games and spectacles in PNG and in New Zealand for the Tonga games and the only real let down was the antipathy shown by the NRL in promoting it in Australia. If the NRL could put in a quarter of the effort into promoting the tournament as they do for the NRL then it could be great and further cement RL's position in Oceania as the dominant code. It should be seen as a great opportunity to advance itself if nothing else. The 2008 World Cup in Australia was great and the start of the World Cup's resurgence, hopefully Australia can deliver again this time.

[Sports Prophet]

3 hours ago, Gomersall said:

You keep saying this but why hasn’t it been confirmed? We’re already half way through May and nothing has been said by the NRL, or whoever is organising these events, for months. The NRL have bigger fish (in their view) to fry with their eyes cast Vegas way IMO. A two year lead up to a WC will be a breeze compared to five minutes for a Tri Nations.

Time will tell Gomm’. The NRL announced that they will continue plans for an end of season tri nations tournament only as recently as England confirmed Tonga were coming to tour. About a couple of weeks ago. I don’t think they need to give a weekly update on the plans.

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Obsessed. You just cant move on. Other people have long said the same. I'm flattered you think I have so much influence. Maybe others simply can look at things without rose tinted spectacles and objectively look at what happens.

I’m not obsessed by it mate, I just find it fascinating that there is this new (you say it’s been going a while, but I have never seen it) feeling of contempt for the NRL for letting USA and France bid and subsequently be selected, to host 2025. 

I don’t really know what the NRL were meant to do? Vote against USA and France hosting? Bid against them? What did the NRL do wrong and what should they have done differently?

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Nah. I think the smart people in the room were always asking how a country with no rugby league infrastructure and multiple warring proto-NGBs would ever host a tournament.

So, yes, the other boards and the IRL should have voted against it.

I'll cut them a bit more slack with France but only a bit. It seems the financial side of that, from what is being said now, was always, at best, fanciful.

Oh look GJ, I thought it fanciful as well, but, I wasn’t privy to the 2021 bid. What I do have is personal experience of the skill set and performance of Moore Sports and with this experience, I didn’t put it past them actually stumping up a better proposal than anything the NRL or RFL could put together.

A true commercial partner for the international game. Shame it all went wrong when they went against the NRL. A fight they were never going to win.

[Gomersall]

23 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Time will tell Gomm’. The NRL announced that they will continue plans for an end of season tri nations tournament only as recently as England confirmed Tonga were coming to tour. About a couple of weeks ago. I don’t think they need to give a weekly update on the plans.

But that’s exactly why Tonga bailed on it. No confirmation. They aren’t even keeping possible participants in the loop.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Gomersall

[Sports Prophet]

1 minute ago, Gomersall said:

But that’s exactly why Tonga bailed on it. No confirmation.

Yeah, I am no longer disputing that. I saw comments from Wolf recently confirming this. Just because it isn’t confirmed yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t in the pipe and being worked on though.

The NRL stated in the same article they are working on it and for now, that is good enough for me think it will go ahead. 
 

If it’s not announced within a couple of weeks of Origin being competed, then I might be concerned that it will not go ahead.

[RP London]

why are we never an option when it comes to sports washing money?!?! 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by RP London
emoji added so people know I am not in anyway serious!

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Concrete?

It was Gravel and Mud!

Yes, it would appear so.

Hopefully Australia and New Zealand are positioning themselves to rescue the next World Cup now.

And the IRL ought to learn some lessons or be recalibrated.

[crashmon]

If it is going to be in SH in 2025, then England do need to tour down there next year (not GB).  Even if AUS don't want to play England you have NZ, FIji, Tonga, Samoa, PNG all as candidates to play.  You could play Tonga in NZ and play Samoa in AUS, with a game vs PNG in PNG.

[The Rocket]

37 minutes ago, Damien said:

On the positive I think if 2025 can be replaced by a World Cup hosted by Australia, New Zealand and PNG it can be fantastic. I think any games in the PI nations are pie in the Sky. With the rise now of Samoa and the increase in PI players in the NRL it could be a fantastic occasion. You also now have the new Western Sydney Stadium and Sydney Football Stadium and some tremendous new venues in Australia to utilise that are made for RL.

2017 had some great games and spectacles in PNG and in New Zealand for the Tonga games and the only real let down was the antipathy shown by the NRL in promoting it in Australia. If the NRL could put in a quarter of the effort into promoting the tournament as they do for the NRL then it could be great and further cement RL's position in Oceania as the dominant code. It should be seen as a great opportunity to advance itself if nothing else. The 2008 World Cup in Australia was great and the start of the World Cup's resurgence, hopefully Australia can deliver again this time.

Love your positivity because after seeing the headlines about France this morning I was feeling pretty glum about the whole thing, knowing the field day the other codes were going to have over this, especially the yawnion and what with our battle to keep players like Payne Haas.

Personally at this stage I think we should forget about trying to make money out of World Cups, break even and be satisfied creating a festival of world Rugby League. The money can come in future tournaments. Call it an investment in the future if you will.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, RP London said:

why are we never an option when it comes to sports washing money?!?! 

 

They probably cant wash enough money to make it worthwhile for what it would cost to buy us!

[Damien]

1 minute ago, The Rocket said:

Love your positivity because after seeing the headlines about France this morning I was feeling pretty glum about the whole thing, knowing the field day the other codes were going to have over this, especially the yawnion and what with our battle to keep players like Payne Haas.

Personally at this stage I think we should forget about trying to make money out of World Cups, break even and be satisfied creating a festival of world Rugby League. The money can come in future tournaments. Call it an investment in the future if you will.

We know we can make money from World Cups, we have done since 2008. We do though need to focus on what works in 2025 and what we can afford. The World Cups should be split up again with separating bidding processes to make it easier for hosts. It may well be the case that the men's and women's tournament take place in Australia, with the women's game so strong there and the wheelchair elsewhere. With 6 of the 8 nations for that being European it may well be more practical and financially beneficial for that to take place in Europe, and dare I say France or the UK, than Australia. The game needs to be pragmatic about this to ensure the World Cup takes place.

[Gerrumonside ref]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

We know we can make money from World Cups, we have done since 2008. We do though need to focus on what works in 2025 and what we can afford. The World Cups should be split up again with separating bidding processes to make it easier for hosts. It may well be the case that the men's and women's tournament take place in Australia, with the women's game so strong there and the wheelchair elsewhere. With 6 of the 8 nations for that being European it may well be more practical and financially beneficial for that to take place in Europe, and dare I say France or the UK, than Australia. The game needs to be pragmatic about this to ensure the World Cup takes place.

This sounds very sensible.

[The Rocket]

 

Totally irrelevant to the discussion but cheers me up no end.

FTA/FOX/Streaming viewers.

AFL Round 9

Friday 1.145m Saturday 1.694m Sunday 800k

3.64m total for the round.

NRL ROUND 11

Thursday 1.330m Friday 1.347m Saturday 1.484m Sunday 1.212m

5.373m total for the round

That`s a little over 400k per match for them and 670k for us.

One of the lowest rounds for AFL footy in some time.

 

[Sports Prophet]

21 hours ago, gingerjon said:

 

I can’t stop imagining what a spot the difference game would look like when you put a picture of the office of the 2023 French RWC organising committee at work next to a picture of the 2024 French RLWC organising committee at work.

It would be a very telling picture of why international RL and French RL are in such a pathetic state.

[Sports Prophet]

20 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I can’t quite work out who’s at fault here:

 

 

20 hours ago, crashmon said:

David Hughes

No way Crash, it’s the NRL