TV Deal to conclude end of June

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Again, it's a bit of a failure. We haven't set ourselves up to remove reliance on them. 

I do think one of the problems we have now is that Sky have shown they are happy to lose content. A few years back the idea of them losing RU and WWE was unthinkable. 

There is a very real chance of us becoming even more niche without them, and they know it. 

There has definitely been some bad planning - as this was on the cards after the last deal. However, you could argue that Ch4 was a nod towards that model and Our League has been testing out live SL games.

But the dog's breakfast of the SL breakway has probably taken a stupid amount of time away from working on areas like this.

I agree Sky is just going down the Football and F1/Cricket route - also a large expansion of female sports - so there is that risk. In which case we might as well call their bluff at some point, otherwise we are in a position of giving content and control away for what is becoming very little indeed.

Also the gap between what Sky offer and what we can generate independently is shrinking fast.

Dropping to your knees during every negotiation can be called a negotiating position, just not a good one.

[David Shepherd]

18 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I assume demographics are relevant for advertisers. Sky don't just make money from subscribers. 

Demographic will matter less to Sky than C4, adverts will only be a fraction of the revenue Sky make.  Whereas C4 are entirely reliant on adverts.

[Guest]

Just now, David Shepherd said:

Demographic will matter less to Sky than C4, adverts will only be a fraction of the revenue Sky make.  Whereas C4 are entirely reliant on adverts.

I found this which is interesting - you need to gross some figures up to get to pre-COVID figures: 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jul/30/sky-sees-575m-fall-in-revenue-as-sport-is-hit-by-covid-19-lockdown

[Dave T]

28 minutes ago, Leonard said:

There has definitely been some bad planning - as this was on the cards after the last deal. However, you could argue that Ch4 was a nod towards that model and Our League has been testing out live SL games.

But the dog's breakfast of the SL breakway has probably taken a stupid amount of time away from working on areas like this.

I agree Sky is just going down the Football and F1/Cricket route - also a large expansion of female sports - so there is that risk. In which case we might as well call their bluff at some point, otherwise we are in a position of giving content and control away for what is becoming very little indeed.

Also the gap between what Sky offer and what we can generate independently is shrinking fast.

Dropping to your knees during every negotiation can be called a negotiating position, just not a good one.

The bit in bold is the crucial thing here. I think a major problem is that even an offer of £15m is likely to be attractive enough for us based on not being able to plug the gap with internationals or streaming etc. 

But, there absolutely will be a tipping point, one where other providers are happy to pay a modest amount, and another one takes some for free, plus streaming maybe allowing us to be filling say £100k per club or similar.

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The bit in bold is the crucial thing here. I think a major problem is that even an offer of £15m is likely to be attractive enough for us based on not being able to plug the gap with internationals or streaming etc. 

But, there absolutely will be a tipping point, one where other providers are happy to pay a modest amount, and another one takes some for free, plus streaming maybe allowing us to be filling say £100k per club or similar.

It's also not *just* £15m. It's £15m plus the per game production costs which you can either do on the cheap or you can do well...

Plus, I guess, the additional administration of managing an in-house subscription streaming service to the volume of hundreds of thousands of people, some paying per season, some per game.

[ATLANTISMAN]

Excellent streaming production is as little as £ 1000.00 a game nowadays (£5K buys you the dogs B) 6 matches a week £ 30K.

How about a model of 

* 1 match free to air on Terrestrial TV

* 5 matches on streaming subscription and market the hell out of it 

* Joint season ticket/streaming subscription £500.00 50% to the club 50% to SL

* Streaming only £ 300.00 (Thats for 8 months only £37.50 a month)

100000 subscribers would be 50 Million £ of revenue 

The league controlling the output is the way to go.

 

P 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Excellent streaming production is as little as £ 1000.00 a game nowadays (£5K buys you the dogs B) 6 matches a week £ 30K.

How about a model of 

* 1 match free to air on Terrestrial TV

* 5 matches on streaming subscription and market the hell out of it 

* Joint season ticket/streaming subscription £500.00 50% to the club 50% to SL

* Streaming only £ 300.00 (Thats for 8 months only £37.50 a month)

100000 subscribers would be 50 Million £ of revenue 

The league controlling the output is the way to go.

 

P 

I think your figures are overstated in cost and subscribers - but i think the sentiment is right and there is a large gap between what you have and sky are offering as well.

[idrewthehaggis]

6 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

If Cup Group games are included on Season tickets, and any QFs (if they even take place) aren't, I'm willing to bet that in most cases the group games will get higher attendances regardless.

And Play off games. I guess then-as suggested by others-that a form of refunds would need to be arranged. Easier said than done.

Padge. if you accept his premise that there isn't enough SL level players to fill 14 top level teams, don't people think RL should have a long term plan to reverse this?

 

Edited June 8, 2023 by idrewthehaggis

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Excellent streaming production is as little as £ 1000.00 a game nowadays (£5K buys you the dogs B) 6 matches a week £ 30K.

How about a model of 

* 1 match free to air on Terrestrial TV

* 5 matches on streaming subscription and market the hell out of it 

* Joint season ticket/streaming subscription £500.00 50% to the club 50% to SL

* Streaming only £ 300.00 (Thats for 8 months only £37.50 a month)

100000 subscribers would be 50 Million £ of revenue 

The league controlling the output is the way to go.

 

P 

Not a cat in hells chance of getting 100k at £37.50 per month. 

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Not a cat in hells chance of getting 100k at £37.50 per month. 

Yeah the numbers sound great until you actually look at the numbers

[crashmon]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

There has definitely been some bad planning - as this was on the cards after the last deal. However, you could argue that Ch4 was a nod towards that model and Our League has been testing out live SL games.

But the dog's breakfast of the SL breakway has probably taken a stupid amount of time away from working on areas like this.

I agree Sky is just going down the Football and F1/Cricket route - also a large expansion of female sports - so there is that risk. In which case we might as well call their bluff at some point, otherwise we are in a position of giving content and control away for what is becoming very little indeed.

Also the gap between what Sky offer and what we can generate independently is shrinking fast.

Dropping to your knees during every negotiation can be called a negotiating position, just not a good one.

To me this is the biggest game changer in terms of schedule filling.......  You can put Womens football, womens basketball fir example in the thursday night spot if your sky, if RL try the "well what else will you show on a Thursday approach"

[Guest]

1 minute ago, crashmon said:

To me this is the biggest game changer in terms of schedule filling.......  You can put Womens football, womens basketball fir example in the thursday night spot if your sky, if RL try the "well what else will you show on a Thursday approach"

Without wishing to derail the thread, I wonder what the figures are for half of those.

Maybe we should package the women's and wheelchair game as well and take advantage?

Has the wheelchair game died a death? I would have though that would have been great content for Sky. Although I don't know if the rights fall under the RFL.

[gingerjon]

23 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Excellent streaming production is as little as £ 1000.00 a game nowadays (£5K buys you the dogs B) 6 matches a week £ 30K.

How about a model of 

* 1 match free to air on Terrestrial TV

* 5 matches on streaming subscription and market the hell out of it 

* Joint season ticket/streaming subscription £500.00 50% to the club 50% to SL

* Streaming only £ 300.00 (Thats for 8 months only £37.50 a month)

100000 subscribers would be 50 Million £ of revenue 

The league controlling the output is the way to go.

 

P 

This is your area but I'd assume that the 5k doesn't include independent commentators and researchers? Nor the gizmos to do the half time tactics stuff/post match presentations?

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, crashmon said:

To me this is the biggest game changer in terms of schedule filling.......  You can put Womens football, womens basketball fir example in the thursday night spot if your sky, if RL try the "well what else will you show on a Thursday approach"

You could have put on women's rugby league but the sport chose, and continues to choose, running it only as a curtain raiser for men's events, and Sky have responded accordingly.

EDIT

I'd also not be too scared off by the kind of tactic. There isn't enough WSL soccer content to mean that Sky could show that over/instead of Super League.

Edited June 8, 2023 by gingerjon

[lanzer98]

26 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Excellent streaming production is as little as £ 1000.00 a game nowadays (£5K buys you the dogs B) 6 matches a week £ 30K.

How about a model of 

* 1 match free to air on Terrestrial TV

* 5 matches on streaming subscription and market the hell out of it 

* Joint season ticket/streaming subscription £500.00 50% to the club 50% to SL

* Streaming only £ 300.00 (Thats for 8 months only £37.50 a month)

100000 subscribers would be 50 Million £ of revenue 

The league controlling the output is the way to go.

 

P 

For reference: watchnrl is 150 EUR the season including SOO, Internationals, and shows 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, lanzer98 said:

For reference: watchnrl is 150 EUR the season including SOO, Internationals, and shows 

How does that work with televised games? Are they delayed on the app or shown concurrently?

I guess if we went it alone - then there would be additional value to having every game live and not just the left overs or all games after the event.

I also assume pricing is dropped a bit for overseas customers - as it is all additional income at that point.

Edited June 8, 2023 by Leonard

[lanzer98]

I think it is available in countries w/o broadcast deals only - like the EU. Every NRL/SOO match including womens live and on demand w/o any commercial breaks. Just great value and to be fair the only option to watch RL legally.

[lanzer98]

SL should look at URC streaming app too. I read somewhere they got good subscription figures. And it is priced likewise

[Dave T]

18 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah the numbers sound great until you actually look at the numbers

I think it can only ever work as a supplementary thing for fans, it's too niche to replace a TV deal worth millions and millions of quid. 

Now, maybe if we'd have worked up an interest in international rights we could have sold them on to Oz, France etc, but nobody cares about them, and why would they? 

We had the right idea in 1997 with the WCC, but we pushed that too far. We should be in our 26th season of a proper WCC comp by now, and the four nations and world cup was the right idea - but everything has been abandoned, the World Cup has just been cancelled. 

Tbh, I'm not sure I've ever felt so pessimistic about the sport. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, lanzer98 said:

SL should look at URC streaming app too. I read somewhere they got good subscription figures. And it is priced likewise

£72 per year or £7 per month https://welcome.ufcfightpass.com/region/united-kingdom

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think it can only ever work as a supplementary thing for fans, it's too niche to replace a TV deal worth millions and millions of quid. 

Now, maybe if we'd have worked up an interest in international rights we could have sold them on to Oz, France etc, but nobody cares about them, and why would they? 

We had the right idea in 1997 with the WCC, but we pushed that too far. We should be in our 26th season of a proper WCC comp by now, and the four nations and world cup was the right idea - but everything has been abandoned, the World Cup has just been cancelled. 

Tbh, I'm not sure I've ever felt so pessimistic about the sport. 

I'm actually very optimistic. 

But for sure - things like the TV deal show the impact of being parochial. I was assured that focusing on the heartlands only was the way to sunny uplands.

[Griff]

21 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Has the wheelchair game died a death? I would have though that would have been great content for Sky. Although I don't know if the rights fall under the RFL.

It's a great participation sport.  As a televised spectator sport, there are a lot of obvious practical problems.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Griff said:

It's a great participation sport.  As a televised spectator sport, there are a lot of obvious practical problems.

It did very well during the RLWC when televised.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

They definitely will for those viewers on SkyGlass and SkyStream.  Probably not so easy for those watching via a dish.

Really?? Surely the Q box has that ability?

[Griff]

13 minutes ago, Leonard said:

It did very well during the RLWC when televised.

Exactly. At three specially prepared venues.  Hard to replicate on a regular basis.  Most wheelchair RL is played in a sports hall with little or no facilities for spectators.  Probably making use of basketball court markings.