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Wigan Academy Grand Final

Nate90

By Nate90
in The General Rugby League Forum

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EagleEyePie

EagleEyePie

Posted
Posted

It's really amateur stuff from the coaching team. It's the young players who have suffered and it's a horrible situation for them. Some of these academy players will have reached the age limit and won't carry on with the reserves next season so this could possibly be the last stage of their rugby league journey and it's been taken away from them.

No blame goes to anyone other than the coaching team on the day. It's their responsibility. 12 subs haven't been allowed since about 2010, and John Duffy has had enough experience as a head coach to be able to count subs.

I don't know what they could do but I hope the club makes some gesture to the academy players to try to make amends.

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Dunbar

Dunbar

Posted
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29 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

It's really amateur stuff from the coaching team. It's the young players who have suffered and it's a horrible situation for them. Some of these academy players will have reached the age limit and won't carry on with the reserves next season so this could possibly be the last stage of their rugby league journey and it's been taken away from them.

No blame goes to anyone other than the coaching team on the day. It's their responsibility. 12 subs haven't been allowed since about 2010, and John Duffy has had enough experience as a head coach to be able to count subs.

I don't know what they could do but I hope the club makes some gesture to the academy players to try to make amends.

This is the heart of the matter.

The Wigan production line will continue but this match could well have been the highlight of the career for some of them.

Having said that, 18-12 was not a big winning margin and more interchanges may have had an impact on the final result as well.

Just a mess all round but I feel for the lads who were looking forward to the big game.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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Futtocks

Futtocks

Posted
Posted

The onus is always on the clubs to be properly organised. Especially at lower levels where the scrutiny's less strict.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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gingerjon

gingerjon

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3 minutes ago, Damien said:

Surely this cannot be right, St Helens decided who they wanted to play? Really?:

 

Nothing in the link backs up the statement.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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gingerjon

gingerjon

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35 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

The onus is always on the clubs to be properly organised. Especially at lower levels where the scrutiny's less strict.

They were organised. They knew what they were doing. You don't go over by 4 without that being the case.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Dunbar

Dunbar

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Damien said:

Surely this cannot be right, St Helens decided who they wanted to play? Really?:

 

Apart from Wigan 'rightly' getting to the final and Saints being able to pick who they play, that statement is spot on.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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The Blues Ox

The Blues Ox

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Posted

Who normally monitors this then? Almost feels like its a gentlemans agreement as the other team would have to monitor their opponents subs which at that level is unrealistic as you don't have enough staff to do that. You also have to take in to account head injuries which might be under the same laws as SL and Championship, is there any chance that Wigan thought some of the subs were head injuries and dont count? There has to be some more background behind this than simply going over the allowed subs by 4 as that is just so blatent. 

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Dave T

Dave T

Posted
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I assume this isn't the end of this matter. 

This does pose the question about how this happened. If it is the same Wigan coaching team as every other game, then either they will have been making this 'error' all year, or they have just done it for this match. 

I think that needs investigating and explaining. 

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LeeF

LeeF

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31 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I assume this isn't the end of this matter. 

This does pose the question about how this happened. If it is the same Wigan coaching team as every other game, then either they will have been making this 'error' all year, or they have just done it for this match. 

I think that needs investigating and explaining. 

Why would they start this “error” this season though? It’s very strange. 

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bobbruce

bobbruce

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Damien said:

It's not the elite level though, it's an underage team. With limited resources, and a sport that does have to scrimp at its elite level, it is understandable that we don't have 4th officials for u18s games.

The point is even with 4th officials it wouldn’t change anything it’s still the club’s responsibility to get this right. 

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bobbruce

bobbruce

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8 hours ago, Dunbar said:

From the RFL Operations framework.

For all First-Grade Matches and other competitions, the rules regarding  substitutes are set out below unless otherwise directed by the RFL.

The RFL will appoint an Interchange Official who will manage the  interchange process. The Interchange Official will not be responsible for ensuring Clubs comply with the correct interchange procedure.

Each Club will be responsible for ensuring compliance with the interchange procedures.

Failure to comply will result in an investigation and possible disciplinary action.

Entirely down to Wigan because even at first grade level it is the clubs responsibility to be compliant with the interchange regulations. 

Just to add this in again. 

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The Blues Ox

The Blues Ox

Posted
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10 hours ago, bobbruce said:

The point is even with 4th officials it wouldn’t change anything it’s still the club’s responsibility to get this right. 

Presuming the 4th official would be on the touchline you would imagine one of his roles would be to manage interchanges (I am presuming but that was the role of the 4th official in finals that I have been involved in over the years so I am only going on that) so it would not have been allowed to happen.

As mentioned though it would be nice if Wigan came out and put some context in to what has happened. As has been said if it were just 9 subs then its a pretty clear oversight and could be a genuine mistake as things can come at you fast on the touchline but to be 4 over leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Personally until I see anything else I am leaning towards Wigan simply been mistaken on the rules and probably breaking them on multiple occasions during the season and somebody tipping either Warrington and Saints off to this matter after the semi final especially for it to come out say late in the week. There is no excuse for it but I can't see it been as simple as Wigan trying to cheat.

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bobbruce

bobbruce

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4 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Presuming the 4th official would be on the touchline you would imagine one of his roles would be to manage interchanges (I am presuming but that was the role of the 4th official in finals that I have been involved in over the years so I am only going on that) so it would not have been allowed to happen.

As mentioned though it would be nice if Wigan came out and put some context in to what has happened. As has been said if it were just 9 subs then its a pretty clear oversight and could be a genuine mistake as things can come at you fast on the touchline but to be 4 over leaves a lot of questions unanswered. Personally until I see anything else I am leaning towards Wigan simply been mistaken on the rules and probably breaking them on multiple occasions during the season and somebody tipping either Warrington and Saints off to this matter after the semi final especially for it to come out say late in the week. There is no excuse for it but I can't see it been as simple as Wigan trying to cheat.

Read the post I’ve quoted by Dunbar. The 4th official manages the process but is not responsible for making sure clubs comply with the process. That is down to the clubs/teams themselves. 

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The Blues Ox

The Blues Ox

Posted
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1 minute ago, bobbruce said:

Read the post I’ve quoted by Dunbar. The 4th official manages the process but is not responsible for making sure clubs comply with the process. That is down to the clubs/teams themselves. 

That's a strange way to work things, any reason why it is done differently at Super League and Championship level or is it just technicalities in the wording?

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bobbruce

bobbruce

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, The Blues Ox said:

That's a strange way to work things, any reason why it is done differently at Super League and Championship level or is it just technicalities in the wording?

It’s the same at every level responsibility lies solely with the clubs. 

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