Pacific Tournament: Australia, Samoa, NZ

[Dunbar]

New Zealand unchanged for the final.

Australia welcome back Haas, Fa'asuamaleaui and Liam Martin to the pack.

The Kiwis failed to get over the top of the Kangaroo pack last week and they are better this week no doubt.  Will be a tough ask for the Kiwis but home advantage with hopefully spur them to a big performance. 

[Farmduck]

I think every AUS/NZ game is 50/50 but it doesn't really turn out that way. In the last 20 meetings, Australia has won 15. NZ won 3 in a row in 2014-15 and had a 2-point win in 2018 but the last win before these was in 2010. It never seems like that to me, still always feels 50/50.

Is it the defections to Tonga and Samoa hurting them? I don't think so since NZ lost their last 2 games against AUS when Taumalolo was still in the team. His defection is what I consider the turning point in that player phenomenon. If you look at dual-eligible NZers currently in the Tonga and Samoa squads, most wouldn't get in the NZ team. Fonua-Blake maybe or Spencer Leniu but who would you drop? Neame and Leo Thompson both played well last week and there's no way NAS, Nikora or Tapine would be dropped.

 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Farmduck said:

I think every AUS/NZ game is 50/50 but it doesn't really turn out that way. In the last 20 meetings, Australia has won 15. NZ won 3 in a row in 2014-15 and had a 2-point win in 2018 but the last win before these was in 2010. It never seems like that to me, still always feels 50/50.

Is it the defections to Tonga and Samoa hurting them? I don't think so since NZ lost their last 2 games against AUS when Taumalolo was still in the team. His defection is what I consider the turning point in that player phenomenon. If you look at dual-eligible NZers currently in the Tonga and Samoa squads, most wouldn't get in the NZ team. Fonua-Blake maybe or Spencer Leniu but who would you drop? Neame and Leo Thompson both played well last week and there's no way NAS, Nikora or Tapine would be dropped.

I think NZ have a really strong team and were very impressive last year in the World Cup and were unlucky not to beat the Aussies. They are far stronger now than in the 2017 World Cup when they looked fairly shambolic and did looked rocked by all the defections and team turmoil.

Yes last week Australia looked strong but they should, everything in international RL is stacked in their favour. The other countries aren't allowed to play enough games or prepare properly to stand a chance. They don't get 3 weeks SOO prep and 3 high intensity games and have to instead play for their clubs. Until that genuinely changes we shouldn't be surprised when they lack the cohesive or sharpness of the Aussies.

[unapologetic pedant]

On 28/10/2023 at 10:00, Futtocks said:

The objectors tended to also opine that women shouldn't be allowed to do anything outside the kitchen or bedroom. I expect a few them are no longer with us, or are just wandering their neighbourhood yelling "WOKE!" at random things.

I'm hopeful that women's RL will eventually reach the stage where it ceases to be a vehicle for woke bros to brandish their male feminist credentials.

[17 stone giant]

Is the Pacific tournament a permanent thing now? (like the six nations in rugby union)

Will it be played every year apart from World Cup years?

Obviously with minor tinkering such as teams missing a year because they're touring or hosting England.

[welshmagpie]

39 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

Is the Pacific tournament a permanent thing now? (like the six nations in rugby union)

Will it be played every year apart from World Cup years?

Obviously with minor tinkering such as teams missing a year because they're touring or hosting England.

Yes. We believe so.

2024 will have Samoa tour up here with Tonga replacing them in the cup. The Shield stays the same with Fiji hosting I believe.

2025 sees England down under. Samoa, Tonga, NZ in the Cup. The Shield remaining unchanged with hope that the Cook Islands could host. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

There are a few factors which I think will make a difference. Home advantage, and having had such a hard match last week. Their destruction of Samoa meant they were under cooked. My money is on them winning the tournament in glorious fashion. 

[Archie Gordon]

I don't think the Pacific Cup features in the IRL calendar after 2024.

[Mathius Hellwege]

1 hour ago, welshmagpie said:

Yes. We believe so.

2024 will have Samoa tour up here with Tonga replacing them in the cup. The Shield stays the same with Fiji hosting I believe.

2025 sees England down under. Samoa, Tonga, NZ in the Cup. The Shield remaining unchanged with hope that the Cook Islands could host. 

Yep

[sam4731]

1 hour ago, welshmagpie said:

Yes. We believe so.

2024 will have Samoa tour up here with Tonga replacing them in the cup. The Shield stays the same with Fiji hosting I believe.

2025 sees England down under. Samoa, Tonga, NZ in the Cup. The Shield remaining unchanged with hope that the Cook Islands could host. 

Wouldn't it be good if we could have a playoff, mid-season, between Tonga and Fiji/PNG (whoever wins this weekend), for the third place in next year's Cup?

Edited October 31, 2023 by sam4731

[JM2010]

5 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Wouldn't it be good if we could have a playoff, mid-season, between Tonga and Fiji/PNG (whoever wins this weekend), for the third place in next year's Cup?

I think it should be 4 Nations instead of 3. Fiji/PNG added depending who wins this weekend. The team that has just toured England replacing the team that comes over the following year
The team that finishes 4th next year replaced by the winner of the bowl.

[sam4731]

2 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I think it should be 4 Nations instead of 3. Fiji/PNG added depending who wins this weekend. The team that has just toured England replacing the team that comes over the following year
The team that finishes 4th next year replaced by the winner of the bowl.

So the cup next year would be Aus, NZ, Tonga and Fiji/PNG?

That would only leave Fiji/PNG and CI, in the bowl.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I think it should be 4 Nations instead of 3. Fiji/PNG added depending who wins this weekend. The team that has just toured England replacing the team that comes over the following year
The team that finishes 4th next year replaced by the winner of the bowl.

Wouldn't that need another PN team?

4 in the 4N, one touring England and 3 in the Bowl.  Are there 8 nations?

[17 stone giant]

24 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I don't think the Pacific Cup features in the IRL calendar after 2024.

I see. 2025 is when Australia would be missing, so is that likely to be the thing that prevents it from happening?

[JM2010]

16 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

So the cup next year would be Aus, NZ, Tonga and Fiji/PNG?

That would only leave Fiji/PNG and CI, in the bowl.

Yes but I’d add Lebanon to the Bowl

[JM2010]

16 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Wouldn't that need another PN team?

4 in the 4N, one touring England and 3 in the Bowl.  Are there 8 nations?

I’d add Lebanon. They’re Australia based anyway and should be competitive 

[welshmagpie]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

I don't think the Pacific Cup features in the IRL calendar after 2024.

An international Pacific Tri Series is been proposed between Cook Islands, Fiji and Papua New Guinea to be hosted by PNG in 2023, Fiji in 2024 and in the Cook Islands in 2026, Carlson revealed.

“I guess that will give us time to upgrade the stadium properly and attract more international games after.”

https://www.cookislandsnews.com/uncategorised/internal/sport/rugby-union/cirl-backs-qatars-world-cup-bid/

[Wellsy4HullFC]

8 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

An international Pacific Tri Series is been proposed between Cook Islands, Fiji and Papua New Guinea to be hosted by PNG in 2023, Fiji in 2024 and in the Cook Islands in 2026, Carlson revealed.

“I guess that will give us time to upgrade the stadium properly and attract more international games after.”

https://www.cookislandsnews.com/uncategorised/internal/sport/rugby-union/cirl-backs-qatars-world-cup-bid/

With the World Cup moving to 2026, you'd guess that would bring CI hosting to 2025 instead.

But this is RL.

[Damien]

 

[Damien]

NZ Team in full too:

 

[Mathius Hellwege]

16 hours ago, JM2010 said:

Yes but I’d add Lebanon to the Bowl

Lebanon needs to play the Mediterranean Cup against France, Italy, Malta, Greece etc.

We need NZ A and PMXIII to add up to eight teams for 2 4N

[JM2010]

18 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

Lebanon needs to play the Mediterranean Cup against France, Italy, Malta, Greece etc.

We need NZ A and PMXIII to add up to eight teams for 2 4N

Wouldn’t add 2nd string teams to it. Maybe Solomon Islands and Vanuatu if it wasn’t Lebanon.

Until the NH gets its act together with international RL I’d put Lebanon in Pacific Bowl. I agree though, I’d rather see Lebanon in the MEA Championships and either a NH tournament or Mediterranean each year

[Damien]

22 minutes ago, Mathius Hellwege said:

Lebanon needs to play the Mediterranean Cup against France, Italy, Malta, Greece etc.

We need NZ A and PMXIII to add up to eight teams for 2 4N

No we don't. That route just makes a mockery of international RL.

[Dunbar]

I think we need to make the best competition for our teams, not make the teams up for our competitions. 

So, we don't move Lebanon from the Mediterranean to the Pacific and we don't put non-nation teams (PMXIII, NZ A, Maori or whichever) into international competitions. 

[JM2010]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I think we need to make the best competition for our teams, not make the teams up for our competitions. 

So, we don't move Lebanon from the Mediterranean to the Pacific and we don't put non-nation teams (PMXIII, NZ A, Maori or whichever) into international competitions. 

They’re not being moved from the Mediterranean Cup to Pacific Bowl. They currently have no fixtures as there isn’t a Mediterranean cup anymore. It’s better them playing in the Pacific Bowl than not at all