Am I right about the game?

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Coco said:

The areas I am mentioning have over 2 million fans we have lost. Can we afford to have lost that number? Also how many have we gained? 

Can you expand a little on these 2 million fans we have lost.

[Coco]

There is a solution. We as fans are doing the best thing possible communicating our views on this forum. I do dislike when personal comments are made and it's not necessary. 

We need to distribute the funding the game receives. I am not talking about just TV money, I am talking about Gate Receipts, sponsorship. We need to bring back our fans that have been lost. We provide support to all the club's, not just financially, but also administratively. We as a family stick together. As a sport we can only grow by staying together as a family. Something terrible has happened to our sport. They have ripped this family we once had apart. In name of self interests and greed. 

They keep making comments about growing the game, talking about the international scene, and the joke is they have destroyed, what the game used to stand for. Our identity has been lost. 

We could do so many things to help each other, but all we are doing, is destroying the game we once loved and followed. What is going on with the grassroots of the game? Are those that used to volunteer and help nurture the next generation, still there. Are BARLA having any say on the state of the game? 

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, EssexRL said:

*It feels that Broncos promotion doesn't fit the narrative and the ridiculous grading criteria, particularly in respect of catchment area, means that London is unlikely to have a major presence in the sport after next year,

Narrative, what a good word, I can think of a few clubs that will fit the narrative, I for one can't wait for transparency on the scores the clubs have gained, I expect some wide eyes when they are disclosed.

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

IMG were brought in specifically BECAUSE of these issues.

Haven't you used that same argument in a number of posts? Touche Gav.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, Damien said:

18 clubs aren't averaging 10k, we can't even get 6 at the moment. It's fantasy stuff.

The game will never be popular enough to have 18 clubs averaging 10K gates, there are to many other pastimes and distractions and of course Association Football

Edited November 13, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, Damien said:

Absolutely  the race to the bottom mentality has held the sport back for far too long.

Do you not consider that money has a lot to do with it?

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, bigbaldnmad said:

Not really sure that championship clubs got much out of Viaplay, except reduced attendances on TV games.

From memory when Premier to be continued by Viaplay were awarded the contract it was for £90K per annum to be split by the 12 and then 14 clubs, was it worth it considering the games were moved from Sunday Afternoons at 15:00 to Monday Nights at 19:45?

Edited November 13, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[Click]

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

The game will never be popular enough to have 18 clubs averaging 10K gates, there are to many other pastimes and distractions and of course Association Football, comparatively in our little small county of Gtr Manchester we are dwarfed by their attendance figures even for the whole of the Rugby League.

That's a bit sad. Never?

I guess I can understand your dislike of the IMG system if you think we are never going to grow as a sport, and have already hit the peak.

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, Click said:

That's a bit sad. Never?

I guess I can understand your dislike of the IMG system if you think we are never going to grow as a sport, and have already hit the peak.

This is for another thread, which I will bookmark your question and answer it on that thread after the IMG/RL review meeting in December.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

2 hours ago, Coco said:

There is a solution. We as fans are doing the best thing possible communicating our views on this forum. I do dislike when personal comments are made and it's not necessary. 

We need to distribute the funding the game receives. I am not talking about just TV money, I am talking about Gate Receipts, sponsorship. We need to bring back our fans that have been lost. We provide support to all the club's, not just financially, but also administratively. We as a family stick together. As a sport we can only grow by staying together as a family. Something terrible has happened to our sport. They have ripped this family we once had apart. In name of self interests and greed. 

They keep making comments about growing the game, talking about the international scene, and the joke is they have destroyed, what the game used to stand for. Our identity has been lost. 

We could do so many things to help each other, but all we are doing, is destroying the game we once loved and followed. What is going on with the grassroots of the game? Are those that used to volunteer and help nurture the next generation, still there. Are BARLA having any say on the state of the game? 

Eh?! Run that one by me again - because you can't actually mean what you're saying there, surely? 

Not sure where this 'family' vibe has come from but all professional clubs are businesses - Leeds/Wigan/Saints et al aren't there to prop up failing clubs/businesses. And who are 'they' btw? SL/IMG/RFL? 

[Coco]

Everyone who knows Rugby League understand how it was formed. Family actually means family. The game is corrupted by the Self indulgence of those who make decisions on game, not giving any thoughts about teams that are part of the Rugby League Family. 

If you read what is being done and the future plans, Rugby League is committing suicide. IMG is a very bad business decision for rugby league, as a family as a whole. These decisions they have made and are making do not incorporate so many teams that play the sport. Not just professional but also those at grassroots level. 

Teams like Halifax / Bradford / Doncaster / Oldham / Featherstone,  have meaning and are part of the rugby league family.  There are grassroots sides within these areas who provide great support to these sides. Now the decisions they made and are making is bad business decisions for the rugby league family.

How are these sides being financially or administratively supported. There not. The money that is coming in into the game,is not being distributed to the rest of the family. These are just my views. We are losing fans of the sport, we are losing areas and teams that are part of the Rugby League Family. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

5 minutes ago, Coco said:

Everyone who knows Rugby League understand how it was formed. Family actually means family. The game is corrupted by the Self indulgence of those who make decisions on game, not giving any thoughts about teams that are part of the Rugby League Family. 

If you read what is being done and the future plans, Rugby League is committing suicide. IMG is a very bad business decision for rugby league, as a family as a whole. These decisions they have made and are making do not incorporate so many teams that play the sport. Not just professional but also those at grassroots level. 

Teams like Halifax / Bradford / Doncaster / Oldham / Featherstone,  have meaning and are part of the rugby league family.  There are grassroots sides within these areas who provide great support to these sides. Now the decisions they made and are making is bad business decisions for the rugby league family.

How are these sides being financially or administratively supported. There not. The money that is coming in into the game,is not being distributed to the rest of the family. These are just my views. We are losing fans of the sport, we are losing areas and teams that are part of the Rugby League Family. 

With due respect - you're saying a lot there...without really saying anything. By your own admission, you don't know a lot about the community game and how it operates, so anecdotally suggesting the 'grassroots' game will suffer because of decisions IMG make doesn't ring true to me, as somebody who is heavily involved in community RL. 

The game has been in decline for the best part of 30 years, depending on what metrics you value most - IMG aren't the cause. The jury is still out to see if they form part of a solution. 

[EggFace]

17 hours ago, FileyBulldog said:

Losing fans in our heartlands, you put it better than me, I would say we are losing them in our s***loads and doing nothing to bring them back or attract new ones.

So both Rugby codes in the England are having problems clubs be it pro/semi-pro and grass roots and local game.

NEED TO THINK BIGGER.

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

With due respect - you're saying a lot there...without really saying anything. By your own admission, you don't know a lot about the community game and how it operates, so anecdotally suggesting the 'grassroots' game will suffer because of decisions IMG make doesn't ring true to me, as somebody who is heavily involved in community RL. 

The game has been in decline for the best part of 30 years, depending on what metrics you value most - IMG aren't the cause. The jury is still out to see if they form part of a solution. 

Very good post and you are quite correct. To blame IMG now for the games woes going back decades is disingenuous at best.

[gingerjon]

35 minutes ago, Coco said:

Everyone who knows Rugby League understand how it was formed.

It was because a small group of clubs wanted to make more money and pay their players to make that happen?

[Roughyed Rats]

19 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

Of course, none of the issues lamented in the opening three posts are because of IMG but they've become the easiest stick to beat the game with I suppose.

IMG were brought in specifically BECAUSE of these issues.

Agreed. It's easy to throw stones. However, given that we are 18 months into the deal and no actual change has been implemented yet, perhaps they (RFL / IMG) are setting themselves up as an easy target. The game feels in a much worse position than it did just 18 months ago, so people that genuinely care about the game are worried. Specifically, people are worried about it's lack of strategic direction. Therefore, perhaps legitimately they are asking questions about the RFL and IMG who are partnering on this.  Fiddling whilst Rome burns?

[JohnM]

30 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

Agreed. It's easy to throw stones. However, given that we are 18 months into the deal and no actual change has been implemented yet, perhaps they (RFL / IMG) are setting themselves up as an easy target. The game feels in a much worse position than it did just 18 months ago, so people that genuinely care about the game are worried. Specifically, people are worried about it's lack of strategic direction. Therefore, perhaps legitimately they are asking questions about the RFL and IMG who are partnering on this.  Fiddling whilst Rome burns?

Given that our leaders are accused by many of being too short term in their outlook, changing things before they've been given a chance to develop, I'd take a less critical view

[FileyBulldog]

1 hour ago, EggFace said:

So both Rugby codes in the England are having problems clubs be it pro/semi-pro and grass roots and local game.

NEED TO THINK BIGGER.

Whatever problems Union is having at a domestic level they make up for at an international level with the world cup and six nations which always do really well on TV and at grounds.

[RigbyLuger]

"The Rugby League Family" has never existed, and is a spurious as those in union who claim to have a moral superiority over every other sport.

 

(Raising money for charity is not the same.)

[EagleEyePie]

I really don't think the argument that the sport is struggling because it's neglecting the heartlands really holds much weight. I do understand that the regions the game developed in are part of its culture and heritage and what made it feel intrinsically linked to communities, but this country is not the same as it was even 10 years ago.

Rugby league's heartlands are part of the problem. These are hardly successful, vibrant and growing towns. To grow sustainably you need to appeal to a younger demographic but rugby league's heartland towns aren't exactly appealing to younger people. I do think it's a massive shame that we're so city-centric these days but that's the reality of it, particularly when it comes to young people. How do you attract young people in the heartlands when most can't wait to get out?

The reality is that desperately trying to keep hold of every single semi-professional club and giving clubs lower down more and more money as costs increase is just a slow death for the sport. You at least have to try to move forward and market what is marketable to the best of your ability.

Super League makes the money for RL because it has the most marketable teams in it. Weakening a team like Leeds Rhinos to give Batley Bulldogs more money doesn't really make much sense to me. That's not to say that Batley aren't worth anything, but it's hardly controversial to say that if Leeds Rhinos went out of business it would have a far bigger impact on the sport than if Batley did. One thing that IMG seem to be doing is recognising that and attempting to safeguard against it, because rugby league isn't really in a position where it can afford to lose it's most marketable teams. 

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Coco said:

Everyone who knows Rugby League understand how it was formed. Family actually means family. The game is corrupted by the Self indulgence of those who make decisions on game, not giving any thoughts about teams that are part of the Rugby League Family. 

If you read what is being done and the future plans, Rugby League is committing suicide. IMG is a very bad business decision for rugby league, as a family as a whole. These decisions they have made and are making do not incorporate so many teams that play the sport. Not just professional but also those at grassroots level. 

Teams like Halifax / Bradford / Doncaster / Oldham / Featherstone,  have meaning and are part of the rugby league family.  There are grassroots sides within these areas who provide great support to these sides. Now the decisions they made and are making is bad business decisions for the rugby league family.

How are these sides being financially or administratively supported. There not. The money that is coming in into the game,is not being distributed to the rest of the family. These are just my views. We are losing fans of the sport, we are losing areas and teams that are part of the Rugby League Family. 

It is up to "teams like Halifax / Bradford / Doncaster / Oldham / Featherstone" to sort out their own finances.

[Coco]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Hope all the club's in Super League keep making a lots of money and keep it for themselves. 

It was just my opinion and view. 

[JohnM]

They are not making a lot of money, though. They face the same issues as other clubs, the difference being they have the capability to keep their operations going, having maintained their status through hard work, good management and on-field success. Why should they give their hard-earned income to less well-managed clubs only for them to squander?

[redjonn]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

It was because a small group of clubs wanted to make more money and pay their players to make that happen?

rather self indulgent of them....

chuckle

[Arran Graham]

Rugby League is a Northern Sport, a heartland sport. It is run by incompetents, fixated by "expansion".

Ever since 1933 when Wigan Highfield were transferred to White City in London to become London Highfield, expansion has been an abject failure. Off the top of my head, here is a list of failed clubs;

Liverpool Stanley, Liverpool City, Huyton, Runcorn Highfield, Highfield, Prescot Panthers, Cardiff Blue Dragons, Bridgend, Bramley, Fulham, Blackpool Borough, Blackpool Panthers, Blackpool Gladiators, Trafford Borough, York Wasps, Ryedale York, Carlisle, Nottingham City, Mansfield Marksmen, Scarborough Pirates, Bramley, Kent Invicta, Southend Invicta, South Wales, Springfield Borough, Chorley Lynx, West Wales Raiders, South Wales Scorpions, London Skolars, Toronto, Newcastle, Hemel Stags, Oxford, Gloucestershire All Golds, Gateshead Thunder, Sheffield Eagles, Paris St Germain, Celtic Crusaders.

Hardly inspiring stuff is it ? My tuppence worth is two leagues with promotion and relegation and evenly distributed funding for all. If Super League clubs are so good and so well supported they won't need that extra money will they?