Salford Bailout

[meast]

48 minutes ago, dboy said:

Under Ellis, we are more akin to Hudds. Will Wakey be a loss-making vanity project like Hudds, or will Ellis ultimately want the club to be financially self-sufficient.

Fortunately for Wakey, he has the wealth to play it how he wants.

Are you ok hun?

[meast]

37 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Further up this thread, a Giants fan explained exactly what the current situation is. From that your portrayal seems wildly off the mark. Davy has clearly invested over the years - and good on him, nobody forced him to do so - but their model is meant to be as self sustaining going forward as possible (at least for its core business). 

Exactly my point, Salford haven't invested anything, they've basically bought a first team squad.

As entertaining as that squad has been over the last few years, they have nothing to show for any investment by their directors.

All I have done is point out where Huddersfield differ.

Some people won't accept that though.

[Exiled Wiganer]

Just now, meast said:

Exactly my point, Salford haven't invested anything, they've basically bought a first team squad.

As entertaining as that squad has been over the last few years, they have nothing to show for any investment by their directors.

All I have done is point out where Huddersfield differ.

Some people won't accept that though.

I am no expert in West Yorkshire politics, and a bit hazy on the Sheffield merger, but I can’t think of another club who have remotely gone from the depths that I remember from the 80s to their current heights, in such a sustained way as Huddersfield. They seem to have higher standards applied to them than pretty much anyone else. 

[dboy]

42 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Further up this thread, a Giants fan explained exactly what the current situation is. From that your portrayal seems wildly off the mark. Davy has clearly invested over the years - and good on him, nobody forced him to do so - but their model is meant to be as self sustaining going forward as possible (at least for its core business). 

No-ones arguing to the counter.

The point is Salford spend like Hudds, but don't have the income of Hudds or the write-offs of Ken.

[dboy]

2 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I am no expert in West Yorkshire politics, and a bit hazy on the Sheffield merger, but I can’t think of another club who have remotely gone from the depths that I remember from the 80s to their current heights, in such a sustained way as Huddersfield. They seem to have higher standards applied to them than pretty much anyone else. 

You are indeed hazy.

How are Hudds been held to a higher standard?

This thread isn't a critique of them.

They are sustainable because they have a great benefactor, so can justify spending to their "current heights".

Salford, who this thread is about, don't have an income to justify their spend. The Salford Council piggy bank can't keep being raided.

 

[dboy]

9 minutes ago, meast said:

Exactly my point, Salford haven't invested anything, they've basically bought a first team squad.

As entertaining as that squad has been over the last few years, they have nothing to show for any investment by their directors.

All I have done is point out where Huddersfield differ.

Some people won't accept that though.

You are correct and the thread drifted carelessly.

[dboy]

12 minutes ago, meast said:

Are you ok hun?

You've lost me. Eh?

[dboy]

14 minutes ago, meast said:

Salford part own their stadium?

Salford have an academy producing good, young players?

Salford have their own training centre and community trust?

Salford have their own complex to base their reserves, academy, scholarship and women's teams?

I'm not sure they do.

 

You are correct.

A lazy, rushed, careless quoting from me.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, meast said:

No, we've got an owner and directors who invest in the club to keep it somewhat sustainable.

Salford don't.

Exactly!!!!

[meast]

13 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I am no expert in West Yorkshire politics, and a bit hazy on the Sheffield merger, but I can’t think of another club who have remotely gone from the depths that I remember from the 80s to their current heights, in such a sustained way as Huddersfield. They seem to have higher standards applied to them than pretty much anyone else. 

This, Huddersfield and Salford both get stick on here and on social media for stuff that other clubs get free hits for.

Huddersfield were a successful side over 60 years ago, Salford, 50 years ago and even then neither club attracted big crowds but get hammered because they don't pull in 10k crowds.

Strange.

[meast]

13 hours ago, dboy said:

You are indeed hazy.

How are Hudds been held to a higher standard?

This thread isn't a critique of them.

They are sustainable because they have a great benefactor, so can justify spending to their "current heights".

Salford, who this thread is about, don't have an income to justify their spend. The Salford Council piggy bank can't keep being raided.

 

Sustainable because that said owner and the other directors have invested in all areas across the club.

Unlike Salford, surely that's not hard to comprehend?

[meast]

11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Exactly!!!!

So we aren't the same then as was originally claimed.

I've made my point, I'll leave it there

[The Blues Ox]

Im totally confused now, can someone confirm one way or the other if Batley are Huddersfield but without the funding.

[Damien]

The last couple of pages are real bald men fighting over a comb stuff.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

The last couple of pages are real bald men fighting over a comb stuff.

There's been a couple of "ho ho snigger" that it's jokes that Salford eighth in the IMG rankings.

But it's not. You might push them down a few places but it's absolutely reflective of the state of the game in this country that a club that is in this state *is* one of the larger clubs in the game.

[Enkidudu]

42 minutes ago, meast said:

So we aren't the same then as was originally claimed.

I've made my point, I'll leave it there

The point being one coming from confirmation bias. The points you make largely come due to the involvement of Davey. Without the involvement of Davey it is clear it is unlikely they would get such a skilled administrator or such a generous benefactor. Even with the involvement of Davey Huddersfield have struggled.

[Mark]

I live in the City of Salford but am a Swinton fan, can kind of see both sides of the arguement. Salford already struggles to maintain an identity as a city from Manchester, most of my friends when asked,say they are from Manchester to people from outside the area. So I can see the councils viewpoint of they need a quite high profile team to promote the area and in thoery the team should bring a lot of benefits to the area. Unfortunately interest in RL seems to have dropped in the area as the beast that is Football is taking over everything these days. Folly, Eccles and langworthy try their best and are very good amatuer clubs.

 

From a personal viewpoint though, council tax is going up 5% again, services are getting cut left, right and centre, so should the council be throwing money down a blackhole where they dont get any payback? Also as a Swinton fan we got nothing as they just wanted to build houses on the ground and as a town, we have lost our identity and all our facilities in the town as the council just pour their money into vanity areas like Salford Quays and the media hungry Mayor of Salford just wants a nice picture in the paper of himself so he looks like hes doing something

[phiggins]

19 minutes ago, Mark said:

I live in the City of Salford but am a Swinton fan, can kind of see both sides of the arguement. Salford already struggles to maintain an identity as a city from Manchester, most of my friends when asked,say they are from Manchester to people from outside the area. So I can see the councils viewpoint of they need a quite high profile team to promote the area and in thoery the team should bring a lot of benefits to the area. Unfortunately interest in RL seems to have dropped in the area as the beast that is Football is taking over everything these days. Folly, Eccles and langworthy try their best and are very good amatuer clubs.

 

From a personal viewpoint though, council tax is going up 5% again, services are getting cut left, right and centre, so should the council be throwing money down a blackhole where they dont get any payback? Also as a Swinton fan we got nothing as they just wanted to build houses on the ground and as a town, we have lost our identity and all our facilities in the town as the council just pour their money into vanity areas like Salford Quays and the media hungry Mayor of Salford just wants a nice picture in the paper of himself so he looks like hes doing something

It is a good point about Salford and the separate identity to Manchester. Trafford (which I believe is in Salford) is home to Manchester United, and now Manchester Originals. Salford Central train station is somewhere you get off if you want to go to the Spinningfields end of Manchester, rather than Picaddilly. In fact, I'm not sure Salford has what you would describe as a City Centre.

As for the council spend, the more they spend, the more the need to spell out the justification. At Leigh (the only one I can really talk to as my hometown), the benefits to the local economy of a reasonably successful RL side are a bit more direct. With people mulling around the town on matchdays. Then there is the extended benefits that come from women's football, either United or the Euros and the RLWC matches. I'm not sure how much of those benefits will be realised at Salford. The numbers attending are a drop in the ocean compared to numbers at nearby landmarks.

[Mark]

2 hours ago, phiggins said:

It is a good point about Salford and the separate identity to Manchester. Trafford (which I believe is in Salford) is home to Manchester United, and now Manchester Originals. Salford Central train station is somewhere you get off if you want to go to the Spinningfields end of Manchester, rather than Picaddilly. In fact, I'm not sure Salford has what you would describe as a City Centre.

As for the council spend, the more they spend, the more the need to spell out the justification. At Leigh (the only one I can really talk to as my hometown), the benefits to the local economy of a reasonably successful RL side are a bit more direct. With people mulling around the town on matchdays. Then there is the extended benefits that come from women's football, either United or the Euros and the RLWC matches. I'm not sure how much of those benefits will be realised at Salford. The numbers attending are a drop in the ocean compared to numbers at nearby landmarks.

Trafford is a seperate council, both Old Traffords come under them and not Salford

[Charlie]

3 hours ago, Mark said:

I live in the City of Salford but am a Swinton fan, can kind of see both sides of the arguement. Salford already struggles to maintain an identity as a city from Manchester, most of my friends when asked,say they are from Manchester to people from outside the area. So I can see the councils viewpoint of they need a quite high profile team to promote the area and in thoery the team should bring a lot of benefits to the area. Unfortunately interest in RL seems to have dropped in the area as the beast that is Football is taking over everything these days. Folly, Eccles and langworthy try their best and are very good amatuer clubs.

 

From a personal viewpoint though, council tax is going up 5% again, services are getting cut left, right and centre, so should the council be throwing money down a blackhole where they dont get any payback? Also as a Swinton fan we got nothing as they just wanted to build houses on the ground and as a town, we have lost our identity and all our facilities in the town as the council just pour their money into vanity areas like Salford Quays and the media hungry Mayor of Salford just wants a nice picture in the paper of himself so he looks like hes doing something

Ino swinton train at the Aj bell so let’s hope it can be a real asset for rugby in Manchester 

[phiggins]

46 minutes ago, Mark said:

Trafford is a seperate council, both Old Traffords come under them and not Salford

Ah ok, I thought Trafford, even with it's own council was still in Salford. My bad.

[idrewthehaggis]

Absolutely nothing wrong for local authorities to loan money out to boost a business and also reap the interest off such investments.

For further reading, it all can be seen here. www.local.gov.uk/parliament/briefings-and-responses/local-authorities-borrowing-and-investment-bill-house-commons-23

I know some live in a "post truth society" and I guess we all can smell the advocates of the rancid fading neocon/populist project that detests any public subsidy (unless of course its in their neighbourhood/golf club or private school.)

Aside from what Salford City council are doing for their local club, its a precedence, it's legal and its successful for all.

There is this-

The £12m each from Wakefield MBC to their three professional RL clubs for stadium improvement.

The wholly Council  funded, owned and run York community stadium is home to the Knights.

Huddersfield Giants' play at the John Smith stadium was partly financed, built and run by Kirklees council.

Likewise Wigan MBC fully or partly paid and still run the Robins Park and LSV, where  Wigan and Leigh play respectively.

Leeds were able to upgrade Headingley through a commercial loan, guaranteed by their City council.

KR's Craven Park was rebuilt in partnership with the City council via the Kingston community development and now have an running partnership with Hull college.

FC were helped by the council in developing and supporting them at the MKM stadium.

Bradford wanted "Levelling Up" funds to renovate Odsal.

And finally it is  given that local authorities support their sports clubs in Toulouse and Catalan.

Whilst I can't as yet see any evidence local government support came for Warrington or St Helens, I am sure that the new roads around them weren't funded or are maintained by their owners.

But hey ignore the the facts, kids, mince yer misery, ignite yer ignorance. if you want.And let the rest of us support and enjoy the Game.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Absolutely nothing wrong for local authorities to loan money out to boost a business and also reap the interest off such investments.

For further reading, it all can be seen here. www.local.gov.uk/parliament/briefings-and-responses/local-authorities-borrowing-and-investment-bill-house-commons-23

I know some live in a "post truth society" and I guess we all can smell the advocates of the rancid fading neocon/populist project that detests any public subsidy (unless of course its in their neighbourhood/golf club or private school.)

Aside from what Salford City council are doing for their local club, its a precedence, it's legal and its successful for all.

There is this-

The £12m each from Wakefield MBC to their three professional RL clubs for stadium improvement.

The wholly Council  funded, owned and run York community stadium is home to the Knights.

Huddersfield Giants' play at the John Smith stadium was partly financed, built and run by Kirklees council.

Likewise Wigan MBC fully or partly paid and still run the Robins Park and LSV, where  Wigan and Leigh play respectively.

Leeds were able to upgrade Headingley through a commercial loan, guaranteed by their City council.

KR's Craven Park was rebuilt in partnership with the City council via the Kingston community development and now have an running partnership with Hull college.

FC were helped by the council in developing and supporting them at the MKM stadium.

Bradford wanted "Levelling Up" funds to renovate Odsal.

And finally it is  given that local authorities support their sports clubs in Toulouse and Catalan.

Whilst I can't as yet see any evidence local government support came for Warrington or St Helens, I am sure that the new roads around them weren't funded or are maintained by their owners.

But hey ignore the the facts, kids, mince yer misery, ignite yer ignorance. if you want.And let the rest of us support and enjoy the Game.

Talk about scraping the barrel with your comparisons, which are either plainly incorrect or are nothing to do with why Salford are getting criticism.

[Wanderer]

8 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Im totally confused now, can someone confirm one way or the other if Batley are Huddersfield but without the funding.

You really are confused, but so am I. As far as I understand Batley are more like Swinton but they own their own ground

[Taffy Tiger]

21 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Absolutely nothing wrong for local authorities to loan money out to boost a business and also reap the interest off such investments.

For further reading, it all can be seen here. www.local.gov.uk/parliament/briefings-and-responses/local-authorities-borrowing-and-investment-bill-house-commons-23

I know some live in a "post truth society" and I guess we all can smell the advocates of the rancid fading neocon/populist project that detests any public subsidy (unless of course its in their neighbourhood/golf club or private school.)

Aside from what Salford City council are doing for their local club, its a precedence, it's legal and its successful for all.

There is this-

The £12m each from Wakefield MBC to their three professional RL clubs for stadium improvement.

The wholly Council  funded, owned and run York community stadium is home to the Knights.

Huddersfield Giants' play at the John Smith stadium was partly financed, built and run by Kirklees council.

Likewise Wigan MBC fully or partly paid and still run the Robins Park and LSV, where  Wigan and Leigh play respectively.

Leeds were able to upgrade Headingley through a commercial loan, guaranteed by their City council.

KR's Craven Park was rebuilt in partnership with the City council via the Kingston community development and now have an running partnership with Hull college.

FC were helped by the council in developing and supporting them at the MKM stadium.

Bradford wanted "Levelling Up" funds to renovate Odsal.

And finally it is  given that local authorities support their sports clubs in Toulouse and Catalan.

Whilst I can't as yet see any evidence local government support came for Warrington or St Helens, I am sure that the new roads around them weren't funded or are maintained by their owners.

But hey ignore the the facts, kids, mince yer misery, ignite yer ignorance. if you want.And let the rest of us support and enjoy the Game.

Hi idth , I wish that your first statement was correct . £12M each would have been amazing 

Edited March 7 by Taffy Tiger