Fev not paying staff

[The Blues Ox]

23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Your post was justification for that point of view.

How about my other posts in the same thread? Its very clear what I think of Fev not paying players.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

So we didn't win promotion because we didn't pay the players?

Well, you didn't win promotion because of a spectacular loss of bottle when it counted. Maybe something in the players' minds meant the match didn't have their full focus.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

How about my other posts in the same thread? Its very clear what I think of Fev not paying players.

And yet you don't blame them. They are just fragile victims in a cruel world.

[Fevrover]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Well, you didn't win promotion because of a spectacular loss of bottle when it counted. Maybe something in the players' minds meant the match didn't have their full focus.

That's pure speculation from you ,you don't know that for certain. Only the players know.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

That's pure speculation from you ,you don't know that for certain. Only the players know.

It is speculation.

Next time pay the players and it won't be an issue.

[The Blues Ox]

10 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And yet you don't blame them. They are just fragile victims in a cruel world.

No, if they thought they had a chance of having nearly enough IMG points should they gain promotion where the benefits of been in SL could push them in to the top 12, then they would have been totally stupid not to try rather than the alternative of a slow demise in the Championship.

[roversspud]

5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It is speculation.

Next time pay the players and it won't be an issue.

There's only you saying it was an issue this time.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, roversspud said:

There's only you saying it was an issue this time.

This entire thread is about Fev not paying people.

Fev were also not promoted.

You can't say Fev tried to buy promotion when they missed out the paying for purchases part.

I think it's pretty fair to say that a set-up where people are not getting the money they expect will, eventually, turn into an unsuccessful set up.

[roversspud]

44 minutes ago, Worzel said:

 

No model is perfect, but my point is a simple one: Opponents of the basket-of-points-based IMG model say that promotion and relegation has the innate advantage of some sort of sporting moral purity, that promotion is earned, but the reality is that it is anything but that. 

You're correct no model is perfect, but when promotion is won on the field rather than by some arbitrary method then it has definitely been earned. London won their place in SL fair and square and if they earn enough points to not finish bottom of SL, they should keep their place.

If Wakefield are promoted to SL, then it should be because they've won the Championship GF and not because they've built a new stand.

[roversspud]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

This entire thread is about Fev not paying people.

Fev were also not promoted.

You can't say Fev tried to buy promotion when they missed out the paying for purchases part.

I think it's pretty fair to say that a set-up where people are not getting the money they expect will, eventually, turn into an unsuccessful set up.

You said it was because Fev hadn't paid the players that Fev didn't get promotion . There is absolutely no evidence of that. I believe that the club has come out and said that all players last season were paid their salaries on time. 

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, roversspud said:

You said it was because Fev hadn't paid the players that Fev didn't get promotion .

I said it was a legitimate possibility that not being paid what they believed they were owed could have an impact.

The way to avoid that is to sort it out so you don't get chased for moneys owed.

[Fevrover]

34 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It is speculation.

Next time pay the players and it won't be an issue.

Do you know the lottery numbers ?

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Fevrover said:

Do you know the lottery numbers ?

Why? Are Fev relying on them for this year's salaries?

[Fevrover]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Why? Are Fev relying on them for this year's salaries?

Be nice . 

[Worzel]

3 hours ago, Fevrover said:

So didn't Leigh buy promotion ? Or were they all home grown ?

Yes they did. I’ve been consistent on my view of this for a couple of decades, hold no particular issue with Fev in particular 

[Worzel]

3 hours ago, roversspud said:

You're correct no model is perfect, but when promotion is won on the field rather than by some arbitrary method then it has definitely been earned. London won their place in SL fair and square and if they earn enough points to not finish bottom of SL, they should keep their place.

If Wakefield are promoted to SL, then it should be because they've won the Championship GF and not because they've built a new stand.

If a team spends £500k more than other sides can afford, especially if they themselves can’t even really afford it (as is clear with Fev), then whilst games have been won it’s certainly no more of a “fair” selection of suitability for the elite league than many other ways of doing things. 

Fev clearly don’t have the ability to build a sustainable, competitive side to play in Super League. I take no enjoyment from that, but it is what it is. 

Neither do London at the moment, but then they’d not be promoted under the new model either. 

 

[gazza77]

26 minutes ago, Worzel said:

If a team spends £500k more than other sides can afford, especially if they themselves can’t even really afford it (as is clear with Fev), then whilst games have been won it’s certainly no more of a “fair” selection of suitability for the elite league than many other ways of doing things. 

Fev clearly don’t have the ability to build a sustainable, competitive side to play in Super League. I take no enjoyment from that, but it is what it is. 

Neither do London at the moment, but then they’d not be promoted under the new model either. 

 

The irony in all of this (finances ignored), is that consistent performance over a period of time is what would be required to stay in SL if performance on the pitch is the key measurement. Fev actually displayed that last year, it was the performance in the play offs which threw them. Those were the rules, they were known before the season started however.

[RS]

In regards to Fev’s failure to get promoted last year it’s only fair to state that London were in cracking form at the back end of last season. I think both that and the fact that Fev were not “battle hardened” due to having too many blow out wins left Fev without the ability to grind it out in a close game on the day ( that then turned out to be a canter towards the end for London). 

[dkw]

2 hours ago, RS said:

In regards to Fev’s failure to get promoted last year it’s only fair to state that London were in cracking form at the back end of last season. I think both that and the fact that Fev were not “battle hardened” due to having too many blow out wins left Fev without the ability to grind it out in a close game on the day ( that then turned out to be a canter towards the end for London). 

Momentum into the play offs is a huge thing, if you can get the timing right (and a bit if luck with injuries) it can carry a team far. Leeds did it for 3 or 4 seasons on the bang, winning grand finals from outside the top 2.

[LeytherRob]

 

 

[JohnM]

If Featherstone Rovers had paid their players what they were contractually obliged to do, then any argument about the possibility of players not giving of their all because they had not been paid, would have been removed.

On the other hand, if Featherstone Rovers had NOT paid their players what they were contractually obliged to do, the club is always leaving itself open to the suggestion that the players were not giving of their all because they had not been paid.

The answer is simple. Players should be paid what they are contractually entitled to be paid, in full, on time. I just hope that Featherstone are passing on to HMRC any income tax and national insurance they are deducting from players wages.

[JohnM]

13 hours ago, roversspud said:

You're correct no model is perfect, but when promotion is won on the field rather than by some arbitrary method then it has definitely been earned. London won their place in SL fair and square and if they earn enough points to not finish bottom of SL, they should keep their place.

If Wakefield are promoted to SL, then it should be because they've won the Championship GF and not because they've built a new stand.

But promotion IS won on the field. The best teams win. A team's player roster, choice of manager, training programme,  facilities, fan support etc are all functions of the amount of money in that club. If there is  not enough investment from not enough investors, if the club can't afford the best manager, if not enough fans pay to watch because the ground is not good enough and needs money spending on it, if the catchment area is too small to yield enough paying spectators, the club becomes unable to attract the best players and as a result, the on- field performances are not good enough to beat a properly run and funded team.

[sweaty craiq]

imho Fev made a huge mistake in spending big but staying PT or HYBRID? whatever that is. After 2021 Fev spent big but Leigh spent wisely and built a FT squad for SL headed by a recognised head coach - come play offs Fev knew they couldnt beat Leigh and many players knew the easy life was over for them if in SL. 2023  and it was a clear run with TO rebuilding and no Leigh - was it culture with highly paid players being PT, lack of a proven coach, players knowing they would be surplus if promoted? You cant knock Campbell, unless something comes out of the woodwork, for financially supporting the dream of SL, you cant knock the 1500 true loyal fans - a few hangers on let them down - so to all at Fev good luck rebuilding your club, remember YOUR club

[Tex Evans Thigh]

23 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

 

This was not the case last season though because if Fev had of gained promotion they could, if they wanted, just keep all their part time players and bank most of the money which would have more than adequatley paid off these debts without the fear of finishing bottom having much barring on which league they would be in the following year.

The belief through the season was that Fev would have been very close to the automatic spots in SL and a lot of people believed that once in there it would be very hard to lose their spot. As it turned out most people were wrong and Fev were nowhere near where they needed to be so even if they did go up then they would have come straight back down like London are doing but again that money would have been a nice sweetener for them.

We can't forget just how dominant Fev were last season, personally I feel getting rid of Sean Long was a huge mistake which in my opinion came back and bit them on the bum as I didn't see Ford as been up to the task. Although I think its awful what Fev have done regarding missing payments I also find it hard to really blame them either as last season was probably their last chance at a shot in SL for at least the 3-5 years until this system has run its course and we try something new.

Fev were much much better after Ford came in, we comfortably beat Sheffield and Toulouse away as well as beating Bulls away. Yes, we choked in the semi against a rampant London but it wasn't because we got rid of Sean Long. We were getting progressively worse under Long and some of his behaviour behind the scenes wasn't good. He's not a head coach. 

[The Blues Ox]

1 hour ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Fev were much much better after Ford came in, we comfortably beat Sheffield and Toulouse away as well as beating Bulls away. Yes, we choked in the semi against a rampant London but it wasn't because we got rid of Sean Long. We were getting progressively worse under Long and some of his behaviour behind the scenes wasn't good. He's not a head coach. 

Teams normally lift for a new coach but in my opinion Ford didn't fix anything and I thought Fev always looked vulnarable to teams that had quality out wide if their pack could live with Fev's for a chunk of the game. It didn't happen often hence the league table but you always got the feeling that Fev had 2 or 3 bad match ups in the playoffs and unfortunatley for them London was one of them.