IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[bobbruce]

9 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  Rugby League is the number 1 sport in Australia in this country RL is much lower down the pecking order .We have a following who attend games of less than 50k .Ballot SL supporters and over 95% will be for IMG with no relegation.Ballot the Championship and League i supporters and 95% or more would be against them.

Where do you get the 50,000 figure from?  Leeds, Wigan,Saints,Hull,Catalan and Wire all have either over or about 10,000 home fans who attend games that’s 60,000 just with those 6 clubs. 

[Archie Gordon]

10 hours ago, JohnM said:

... IMG deal is our last chance .

Hmmm. Oh dear.

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

7 hours ago, Pulga said:

I was just thinking that this is the last chance.

I have been saying for 5+ years that Super Rugby and Rugby Union in Australia was dead. Not dying but already dead. It's just the life support that needs to be switched off.

I think English Rugby League is very close to where Super Rugby/RA was 5 years ago. 

Rugby league has been dying or dead in this country for the last fifty years if you believe what you read. It's still here. Trust me, it could survive relegating Hull, Leeds, Warrington, whoever. Locking in the same teams who in your opinion have put it on life support will make no difference whatsoever.

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Worzel said:

We've had promotion and relegation for those 20 years, so it's clearly not a factor in quality improvement by your own measure. The reason we're implementing all the IMG changes is precisely because the old ways (not just around promotion and relegation) clearly weren't working. 

 

Agreed but then be radical with the changes, wipe the slate clean and look at the game as a whole not just one section.

What we have now got with just a few tweaks is the 'licensing years' all over again, it is the same but with a different coat of paint. 

It is designed in such a way that after the initial introduction and settling period it will be impossible for clubs outside of the initial - chosen 12 - to ever rise to it, or for the incumbents to leave it.

The scoring system has been really thought about and is purposefully weighted to do exactly what the committee of the 'Framing the Future' did those years ago in choosing who would be the elite and who will be the onlookers. 

The licensed years did not last the test of time simply because those clubs on the outside were waning and the game in that section was struggling,  it needed rejuvenating and sensibility prevailed in 2015 when the licences were rescinded and P&R was reintroduced.

There are those (usually fans of SL clubs) who say the Championship can have a vibrant competition all of it's own, well that didn't prove to be the case in licencing it was dying a slow death in a dead end street, and it will do the same with IMG's methods. Licensing lasted 6 years 2009 to 2014 inclusive, if the same happens again and the Championship is going downhill by 2030 IMG should be confined to the history books as licencing was "tried and it didn't work".

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Current SL clubs would absolutely destroy teams from 20 years ago. Simply on the basis that the young players coming through are generally so much more professional than they were then. 

Yes of course they would undoubtedly so, but is the game a better spectacle to watch under the present style and methods, absolutely not in my opinion.

It's like comparing clothing styles from modern times to years ago, Friday/Saturday nights people would get dressed up to go out and looked very smart, men in a suit, tie, polished shoes, ladies in a nice dress and high heels, compare that today to men with ripped jean's, T shirts with pictures or advertising something or other and trainers, and Ladies who in the main have forgot how to look feminine, the test of time doesn't always mean improvement Bob!

[Daft old hooker]

10 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  Rugby League is the number 1 sport in Australia in this country RL is much lower down the pecking order .We have a following who attend games of less than 50k .Ballot SL supporters and over 95% will be for IMG with no relegation.Ballot the Championship and League i supporters and 95% or more would be against them.

You have hit the nail when you talk about the difference in perception between fans of Championship teams and SL teams. I followed RL for years and it was always my number one sport until IMG.

As a fan of a championship team I no longer take any interest in SL and if the whole lot went bankrupt I wouldn’t care less but ultimately I don’t think anything will change so I will just keep going to watch the championship and not care about the rest.

[Roughyed Rats]

32 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There are those (usually fans of SL clubs) who say the Championship can have a vibrant competition all of it's own, well that didn't prove to be the case in licencing it was dying a slow death in a dead end street, and it will do the same with IMG's methods. Licensing lasted 6 years 2009 to 2014 inclusive, if the same happens again and the Championship is going downhill by 2030 IMG should be confined to the history books as licencing was "tried and it didn't work".

I don't disagree with this Harry. Licensing was a disaster last time when we even saw crowds diminish in the top flight. It won't take long for people to realise they can't get into SL (Spreadsheet League as my football mates laughingly call it) and the history repeats itself. The only other viable option for RL without P&R is to completely separate the game into Summer and Winter competitions as per my earlier posts. What simply won't work is a fudged halfway house like we currently have. As it was during licensing, our sport is sadly a laughing stock.  

[Roughyed Rats]

9 minutes ago, Daft old hooker said:

You have hit the nail when you talk about the difference in perception between fans of Championship teams and SL teams. I followed RL for years and it was always my number one sport until IMG.

As a fan of a championship team I no longer take any interest in SL and if the whole lot went bankrupt I wouldn’t care less but ultimately I don’t think anything will change so I will just keep going to watch the championship and not care about the rest.

That's sadly a very common view. I remember a time when the RL family used to sell out Wembley and you'd see every professional club's shirts. The disenfranchising of RL fans outside the top flight has led to this decline. We almost feel like we are not really part of the game anymore. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

When we have 92 teams capable of being in Super League we can have that, currently we don't. London going up replacing Wakefield despite being so bad is all the vindication the new system needs.

You surprise me Tommy, you are far better than that remark.

Did you not know that having won promotion there was a Middle East Prince from the same Abu Dhabi royal family who own Manchester City who was going to invest quite heavily in London Bronco's, but having been advised that even if the Bronco's emulated the success of his cousin at City and topped the League, travelled just down the road to parade the Challenge Cup having won it at Wembley and then won the Grand Final at Old Trafford. Then his Royal Highness the Prince finds out that if they managed to do all that they would under the auspices of IMG be relegated next season so he pulls out!

Is there any more vindication this system needs?

[Chrispmartha]

30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It's like comparing clothing styles from modern times to years ago, Friday/Saturday nights people would get dressed up to go out and looked very smart, men in a suit, tie, polished shoes, ladies in a nice dress and high heels, compare that today to men with ripped jean's, T shirts with pictures or advertising something or other and trainers, and Ladies who in the main have forgot how to look feminine, the test of time doesn't always mean improvement Bob!

What an odd comparison.

Also your version of very smart and 'looking feminine' might be different to younger people but it doesn't mean you are correct.

Also what you are saying about the younger generation here, is exactly what the older generation will have been saying about your generation when you were young.

 

Im sure the same will be true for 'RL was better in my day' attitude as well.

[Harry Stottle]

24 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

I don't disagree with this Harry. Licensing was a disaster last time when we even saw crowds diminish in the top flight. It won't take long for people to realise they can't get into SL (Spreadsheet League as my football mates laughingly call it) and the history repeats itself. The only other viable option for RL without P&R is to completely separate the game into Summer and Winter competitions as per my earlier posts. What simply won't work is a fudged halfway house like we currently have. As it was during licensing, our sport is sadly a laughing stock.  

What you are advocating Yedder is that you want to initiate the divorce proceedings, I would sooner get in the marriage guidance and let the parties see and become aware that what they are advocating and steps they are taking will resolve themselves just by making them realise that things are not as black as they are being painted and the grass is not really greener on the other side.

[phiggins]

12 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

When we have 92 teams capable of being in Super League we can have that, currently we don't. London going up replacing Wakefield despite being so bad is all the vindication the new system needs.

How many rounds was it before Wakefield won a game last season? Seems a like for like replacement to me.

Any issues with London being in SL is more a reflection on the play off system to determine the winners of the second tier, not on the idea of relegation.

[Chrispmartha]

44 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

I don't disagree with this Harry. Licensing was a disaster last time when we even saw crowds diminish in the top flight. It won't take long for people to realise they can't get into SL (Spreadsheet League as my football mates laughingly call it) and the history repeats itself. The only other viable option for RL without P&R is to completely separate the game into Summer and Winter competitions as per my earlier posts. What simply won't work is a fudged halfway house like we currently have. As it was during licensing, our sport is sadly a laughing stock.  

Did crowds diminish in any meaningful way in the top flight during licensing years - the average attendances have been around 9-10 thousand pretty consistently haven't they?

[Click]

I find this whole situation quite comical, and some of the thoughts of some of the other posters are as always, enlightening.

It feels strange as a London fan, currently in SL - I have been told I must love IMG as I am a fan of a club in the SL. But also as a London fan, I have also been told that I must hate IMG as they will be the reason London will be relegated this season.

People will always think that the sport they grew up watching was the better "spectacle" then what we see today. Football fans that grew up watching in the 70s and 80s I am sure say similar things to what a lot of RL fans in those age ranges say, that's what humans do - they view what they experienced themselves at younger years in a more promising way then it actually was.

London will perhaps win 1 game this year, maybe, if we get lucky and one of the other teams has a bad day. I didn't really expect us to get anymore than 1 win, so I feel pretty indifferent to my team losing every week. I certainly am not motivated to go watch them every week in person.

Personally, I don't think there is enough money in RL to have open P/R between SL and the Championship. I think clubs need to build more sustainable bases both in SL and in the lower leagues all across the sport. It is embarrassing how small time RL is.

[Harry Stottle]

51 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

What an odd comparison.

Also your version of very smart and 'looking feminine' might be different to younger people but it doesn't mean you are correct.

Also what you are saying about the younger generation here, is exactly what the older generation will have been saying about your generation when you were young.

 

Im sure the same will be true for 'RL was better in my day' attitude as well.

Sorry Chris got called away.

Anyway to answer you, I will ask you the question while is it then still perceived when attending a formal occasion such as a wedding, funeral, job interviews (granted not all) that "making the effort" to dress for the occasion involves dressing in the way I described as was the norm on Friday/Saturday evenings out?

[JohnM]

If anyone on here believes there wasn't a problem with the sport prior to IMG, let me say that beliefs are just that: blind faith without evidence. Please feel free to say if you dont think there was a problem with the game.

But let's get back to the origin: coordinates 0, 0 as it were.

Edited version of press release re: Reimagining Rugby League – IMG presents recommendations

Reimagining Rugby League Consultation Project – a key part of the first phase of the agency’s 12-year strategic partnership with the sport agreed in the spring.

In addition to drawing on IMG’s global expertise, the recommendations have been made following extensive consultation with key stakeholders across Rugby League, including clubs, broadcasters, sponsors, media, players, representatives from the community game and international partners, as well as a survey of supporters attracting almost 20,000 responses. This is the most comprehensive piece of consultation ever undertaken on the sport.

IMG’s recommendations have the overriding aim of driving the long-term value and impact of the sport. 

In summary the recommendations are: 

A re-positioned calendar which optimises flow, narrative and engagement, incorporating regular ‘peaks’ of interest and a compelling season climax.

A calendar aligned with the global game to facilitate an international window in October and incorporate a mid-season international.

Participation in the top tier to be based on a range of on and off field measures, delivered through a club grading system with the aim of supporting financial sustainability and encouraging investment into clubs.  ‘Category A’ clubs will be guaranteed participation in the top tier whilst ‘Category B’ clubs will be re-assessed annually with the highest-ranking clubs occupying the remaining slots in the top tier.  

Promotion and relegation will continue on the field of play between the second and third tiers with tier two increasingly filled with strong Category....

Read and review.

[bobbruce]

56 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

What an odd comparison.

Also your version of very smart and 'looking feminine' might be different to younger people but it doesn't mean you are correct.

Also what you are saying about the younger generation here, is exactly what the older generation will have been saying about your generation when you were young.

 

Im sure the same will be true for 'RL was better in my day' attitude as well.

Absolutely now people are saying where’s the players like Farrell or Sculthorpe in the modern game. When Farrell and Sculthorpe played people used to say they are no Hanley or Schofield. Back in the 80s my dad would say Hanley and Schofield weren’t a patch on Huddart and Murphy. 

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Sorry Chris got called away.

Anyway to answer you, I will ask you the question while is it then still perceived when attending a formal occasion such as a wedding, funeral, job interviews (granted not all) that "making the effort" to dress for the occasion involves dressing in the way I described as was the norm on Friday/Saturday evenings out?

Well people attending weddings, funerals and job interviews do actually wear less formal clothes than they used to, but anyway those and going on a night out simply aren't comparable, partly because the way people go out on a weekend has changed drastically. 

Society moves on, and as I say the oder generation always have and always will think that the younger generations are worse than they were.

You're also coming from a starting point that 'dressing nicely', or more importantly what you perceive to be nice is better.

When in reality it's just different because, as I say society moves on.

 

To pull it back to RL, people have and always will think it was better in 'their day' it's human nature.

For example I personally think the late 90s and early/mid 00s were when the sport was at it's best, and those players around then seem in my mind much better, when in reality that's just an opinion and will be formed by age and bias.

[Chrispmartha]

6 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Absolutely now people are saying where’s the players like Farrell or Sculthorpe in the modern game. When Farrell and Sculthorpe played people used to say they are no Hanley or Schofield. Back in the 80s my dad would say Hanley and Schofield weren’t a patch on Huddart and Murphy. 

Precisely.

[Roughyed Rats]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

What you are advocating Yedder is that you want to initiate the divorce proceedings, I would sooner get in the marriage guidance and let the parties see and become aware that what they are advocating and steps they are taking will resolve themselves just by making them realise that things are not as black as they are being painted and the grass is not really greener on the other side.

I like the analogy Harry. In any relationship, there comes a point where both sides have to make a real concerted effort to reconcile. If that's one sided, I'd suggest it's never going to work and sometimes happiness lies elsewhere. As a divorcee, I can certainly testify to that on a personal level. If I truly believed there was a will on both sides, I'd be all in for marriage guidance. Perhaps the game needs to decide whether to go all in or it's separate ways. Certainly not buying the façade of sleeping in separate bedrooms. 

Edited April 10 by Roughyed Rats

[phiggins]

49 minutes ago, JohnM said:

If anyone on here believes there wasn't a problem with the sport prior to IMG, let me say that beliefs are just that: blind faith without evidence. Please feel free to say if you dont think there was a problem with the game.

But let's get back to the origin: coordinates 0, 0 as it were.

Edited version of press release re: Reimagining Rugby League – IMG presents recommendations

Reimagining Rugby League Consultation Project – a key part of the first phase of the agency’s 12-year strategic partnership with the sport agreed in the spring.

In addition to drawing on IMG’s global expertise, the recommendations have been made following extensive consultation with key stakeholders across Rugby League, including clubs, broadcasters, sponsors, media, players, representatives from the community game and international partners, as well as a survey of supporters attracting almost 20,000 responses. This is the most comprehensive piece of consultation ever undertaken on the sport.

IMG’s recommendations have the overriding aim of driving the long-term value and impact of the sport. 

In summary the recommendations are: 

A re-positioned calendar which optimises flow, narrative and engagement, incorporating regular ‘peaks’ of interest and a compelling season climax.

A calendar aligned with the global game to facilitate an international window in October and incorporate a mid-season international.

Participation in the top tier to be based on a range of on and off field measures, delivered through a club grading system with the aim of supporting financial sustainability and encouraging investment into clubs.  ‘Category A’ clubs will be guaranteed participation in the top tier whilst ‘Category B’ clubs will be re-assessed annually with the highest-ranking clubs occupying the remaining slots in the top tier.  

Promotion and relegation will continue on the field of play between the second and third tiers with tier two increasingly filled with strong Category....

Read and review.

Guessing the last bolded text was reviewed since this press release, with every club now being reassessed annually, rendering the grades virtually redundant.

[JohnM]

8 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Guessing the last bolded text was reviewed since this press release, with every club now being reassessed annually, rendering the grades virtually redundant.

Resassesed against what criteria? 

[JohnM]

19 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

I like the analogy Harry. In any relationship, there comes a point where both sides have to make a real concerted effort to reconcile. If that's one sided, I'd suggest it's never going to work and sometimes happiness lies elsewhere. As a divorcee, I can certainly testify to that on a personal level. If I truly believed there was a will on both sides, I'd be all in for marriage guidance. Perhaps the game needs to decide whether to go all in or it's separate ways. Certainly not buying the façade of sleeping in separate bedrooms. 

That analogy only applies to the sides of the argument that forum members take.

[phiggins]

43 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Resassesed against what criteria? 

I would assume the same criteria, but over an updated time period

[DemonUK]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

.  ‘Category A’ clubs will be guaranteed participation in the top tier whilst ‘Category B’ clubs will be re-assessed annually with the highest-ranking clubs occupying the remaining slots in the top tier.  

 

I thought All clubs are reassessed annually