IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[Gooleboy]

On 07/09/2024 at 09:46, ATLANTISMAN said:

And ?

He has decided to go back to OZ or already has.

He couldn't have got further away from the RFL unless he had gone into space!

[JohnM]

57 minutes ago, phiggins said:

And your point being?

That this thread is quite like a house of cards built on sandy ground, so free of anything concrete. The fact to conjecture ratio is at least 1 : 100 and yes, like social media thoughout the world, it's fuelled by imagination rather than reason.

Edited September 10, 2024 by JohnM

[LeytherRob]

3 hours ago, Chrispmartha said:

Also Harry, maybe if relegation was in Play Derek night not have been as patient with Lam, we don't know.

Regardless of the hypotheticals, you can pretty much guarantee DB wouldn’t have sacked Lam this year. He can be impulsive in many ways but he is fiercely loyal to his coaches, sometimes to the clubs detriment. He’s never sacked a coach in his time at Leigh, the closest would be Jukes and Duffy but both fell on their sword and were immediately given positions at AB sundecks. He certainly wouldn’t sack a coach that delivered major silverware.

[marklaspalmas]

Apologies if posted previously....

https://hunsletrlfc.com/general/img-grading-2024-update/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFNKq5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfcz9Ih0KtTioBdTl1ettxxoXmctKvz4sy2A2A7KCwTeA1FoQQfGnukl3Q_aem_L-0uJEZc3bX8Rknw8FfmEw

[JohnM]

18 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

He couldn't have got further away from the RFL unless he had gone into space!

This just in:

Internet shrinks the world. 

NRL games seen live in real-time, even in the north of England. 

Native Australian returns home after video-conferencing training course.

Mass wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Griff]

29 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

He couldn't have got further away from the RFL unless he had gone into space!

You can be a lot closer to Earth in orbit than the 8000 miles or so to Australia.

[Dave T]

57 minutes ago, phiggins said:

Is that true though? We are close to two and a half years into the partnership, with the initial focus on "competition restructuring, content production and innovation, domestic and international distribution of media rights" We all know about the restructuring and when that kicks in. But what about the other stuff. How is the content production going? Is anything being produced with a tangible ROI (e.g. anything that can help promote events like internationals or finals), what about international media rights? Where they given away or sold? 

I don't think I've heard a single club say that they've been given a clear vision of what will be gained from this partnership after years 3, 6, 9 and 12. Unless we're pinning everything on the betting and streaming rights that is to come in a later phase.

As ever I think your questions are reasonable, but as ever I do think the answer is that patience is required.

I think what we need to accept is that where we currently are is an outcome of what we have been doing for years, and of course due to the external factors within the market. There is no silver bullet - if it was as easy as hiring IMG to do the TV negotiations, well, we'd have done that years ago - and in fact we did. 

It might be nice to get some quick wins, sign up the odd deal here and there - but in reality, there is no reason so far that we suddenly look more attractive to sponsors, partners, even fans. And one of the challenges around that is that the work that has been happening so far has been groundwork, sorting out the foundations to allow the game to do better. 

I genuinely think we will only really be able to tell whether there is any real progression in the 2nd half of this initial 12 year partnership. At that stage we'll have a new structure embedded, we'll have had a few years of a transformational broadcasting deal, and clubs (and the RFL) will hopefully have benefited from partnering with experts in digital etc. We'll have new media deals and sponsorship up for grabs and if there are no signs that things are improving, then I think that is fair game for some tougher quetions to be asked.

But we really should be clear that the current level of performance of the sport is not due to what IMG has done in 2 years, it's what the sport has done over a far longer period than that.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

But thats just not true is it (as i pointed out). At the moment we have facts and the facts are that what we are doing now is failing clubs and is causing issues and has been for many years with many clubs having major financial issues. So there does need to be some form of change to try to solve this, its just speculation at the moment about whether this is the one that will work.. but what we cannot do is say that what we have now is fine and working that would just go against all the evidence we have. 

Yes that is true, but in my opinion for those below SL, it could very well be a case of better the devil you know, maybe just my opinion but I do not believe this IMG/RL Com system will do those clubs any favours, SL will effectively be a closed shop for a period then a declared closed shop in not to distant future.

Why am I bothered about this, I do not believe it will effect my club that we will again be in the Championship, but I stayed loyal all through the "licenced year's" and saw what was happening to the game below SL level, crowds fell away, barely 1,000 in attendance at most games at Leigh in the early years of Licencing, and the apathy in the town towards RL was tactile you could actually feel it, after a couple of goes my club found the right formula to stay in SL and now averaging well over 8K in attendance, but without P&R we would not have had the opportunity to do that. Had we still been in the Championship having had the previous experience of a closed shop I would have packed the pro game in under this system, and I expect that quite a few others from other clubs who were also 'locked out' my well follow suit.

Just my opinion, of course.

[RP London]

44 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Regardless of the hypotheticals, you can pretty much guarantee DB wouldn’t have sacked Lam this year. He can be impulsive in many ways but he is fiercely loyal to his coaches, sometimes to the clubs detriment. He’s never sacked a coach in his time at Leigh, the closest would be Jukes and Duffy but both fell on their sword and were immediately given positions at AB sundecks. He certainly wouldn’t sack a coach that delivered major silverware.

lets be fair and call it what it is, leaving by mutual consent is being sacked.. coaches get sacked and directors make that call all the time and its not to the detriment of the club and often not the coach either.. but to say he hasnt sacked anyone is simply semantics at best.. he has and thats ok.

[Archie Gordon]

What is the new structure, referenced above by a couple of posters? I presume this means SL membership being assigned to the 12 most attractive clubs but I don't see a new *structure* as such. 12 teams (possibly identical in make up to those that P&R would deliver), playing 27 rounds of rugby between February and October, with a MW included. No signs of a new comp or event. What will be different in terms of what the game offers to TV/media companies? 

I'm genuinely struggling to see what the new offer might be.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes that is true, but in my opinion for those below SL, it could very well be a case of better the devil you know, maybe just my opinion but I do not believe this IMG/RL Com system will do those clubs any favours, SL will effectively be a closed shop for a period then a declared closed shop in not to distant future.

Why am I bothered about this, I do not believe it will effect my club that we will again be in the Championship, but I stayed loyal all through the "licenced year's" and saw what was happening to the game below SL level, crowds fell away, barely 1,000 in attendance at most games at Leigh in the early years of Licencing, and the apathy in the town towards RL was tactile you could actually feel it, after a couple of goes my club found the right formula to stay in SL and now averaging well over 8K in attendance, but without P&R we would not have had the opportunity to do that. Had we still been in the Championship having had the previous experience of a closed shop I would have packed the pro game in under this system, and I expect that quite a few others from other clubs who were also 'locked out' my well follow suit.

Just my opinion, of course.

I know, you have stated that before and I do understand that. As a Sheffield Fan believe me I do understand that. 

However, time has moved on and this structure is different to the licencing era. 

Equally, in the end the choice could be a sport in terminal decline or the decline of some clubs but the sport as a whole rises to the challenge and moves forward. In real life P&R (which we have never had BTW) that happens. There are plenty of clubs in other sports that come up and then disappear into the ether and that is ok (sad but ok). We dont, they just sort of hang around in League 1 as there is no relegation, then people get upset when they may go to the wall and they get bailed out and still just sit around.. That could also be said for some Super League clubs I am sure (again as a Sheffield fan believe me I could rant about a certain period of time happily). 

If it can grow then there are other markets but we have been trying to hold on to these people that "may walk away from the game" for god knows how long and while we keep hold of them we are leaving the game in a state that isnt attracting people new to the game.. maybe by losing some and moving forward we will gain more than we lose, and that is a good thing.

It could be a tough few years for some but we have to hope the sport as a whole comes out of it in a much better state, and with clubs that can really push forward.. however, doing exactly what we are doing now I would argue (with evidence of what is happening and has happened over the past years) is just watching a sport go from bad to worse and have no real future. 

 

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

What is the new structure, referenced above by a couple of posters? I presume this means SL membership being assigned to the 12 most attractive clubs but I don't see a new *structure* as such. 12 teams (possibly identical in make up to those that P&R would deliver), playing 27 rounds of rugby between February and October, with a MW included. No signs of a new comp or event. What will be different in terms of what the game offers to TV/media companies? 

I'm genuinely struggling to see what the new offer might be.

I mean its been mentioned quite a lot in the thread and the media and the forum in general on a number of different threads about "new ideas", scrapping loops, changes to magic, changes to the cup, the fact that its not solely on field P&R which is a structural change. (if you want a physical league change they have spoken about the leagues below and evening the numbers and putting 14 teams into super league if/when there are 14 of a good enough level).. there is quite a lot out there to be fair.

We dont need a new comp or event necessarily (though I assume you missed the roses thread? though not "new" exactly this would be a "new comp" as in we dont have it now) we need the current ones to work better (I mean work as in make money). 

for the what is different for TV/Media again this has been mentioned quite a lot.. due to the better facilities at grounds the media coverage can be better and therefore televise every game, have video refs at every game, develop the streaming platform so that people can access every game, consistency in coverage as the coverage is overseeen by the same company. 

 

Edited September 10, 2024 by RP London

[Chrispmartha]

35 minutes ago, Griff said:

You can be a lot closer to Earth in orbit than the 8000 miles or so to Australia.

Well, quite and Sydney is nearer 11,000 miles away

 

[JohnM]

With grading in place, grades confirmed etc, isn't it the case that we can take to the media a modern, well-thought out, commercially viable package. I realise that say Salford and Huddersfield can't show the same game-day atmosphere as say at the present one at Saints or Leigh or Hull KR.  But post-grading, we'll look more professional and largely, less Parochial.

Of course, the other view may be that our game here is never going to be anything more than it is now, so let's kill these delusions of grandeur and get back to our pre M62 roots.

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

What is the new structure, referenced above by a couple of posters? I presume this means SL membership being assigned to the 12 most attractive clubs but I don't see a new *structure* as such. 12 teams (possibly identical in make up to those that P&R would deliver), playing 27 rounds of rugby between February and October, with a MW included. No signs of a new comp or event. What will be different in terms of what the game offers to TV/media companies? 

I'm genuinely struggling to see what the new offer might be.

I think that's fair from a customer/media-facing viewpoint, little will look different, and I think I've made the point before that whilst getting the groundwork done is crucial, I would have looked to do something a little more visible alongside this to almost show what can be done. I don't think Roses is that thing. 

What IMG have recommended though is a reduction in games, create some scarcity, get rid of loop fixtures, which maybe then leaves some space for other concepts - but as we've seen, cutting a quarter of a club's home games is going to be challenging! We then have the cherry on top that the international game is facing possibly it's biggest challenge for decades - certainly as long as I've been watching. Things like an expanded WCS which a few years back was on the cards are dead - so it is going to be challenging as to how the game can refresh itself.

So that sort of does leave us to focus on making sure the basics are as good as they can be.

[Archie Gordon]

12 minutes ago, RP London said:

I mean its been mentioned quite a lot in the thread and the media and the forum in general on a number of different threads about "new ideas", scrapping loops, changes to magic, changes to the cup, the fact that its not solely on field P&R which is a structural change. (if you want a physical league change they have spoken about the leagues below and evening the numbers and putting 14 teams into super league if/when there are 14 of a good enough level).. there is quite a lot out there to be fair.

We dont need a new comp or event necessarily (though I assume you missed the roses thread? though not "new" exactly this would be a "new comp" as in we dont have it now) we need the current ones to work better (I mean work as in make money). 

for the what is different for TV/Media again this has been mentioned quite a lot.. due to the better facilities at grounds the media coverage can be better and therefore televise every game, have video refs at every game, develop the streaming platform so that people can access every game, consistency in coverage as the coverage is overseeen by the same company. 

 

A few ifs and maybes there. Some thinking aloud. New seats at Cas, video refs. This really is the thinnest of thin gruel so far.

[Griff]

21 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Well, quite and Sydney is nearer 11,000 miles away

 

Not if you dig a straight tunnel through the Earth.

[Gooleboy]

49 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

What is the new structure, referenced above by a couple of posters? I presume this means SL membership being assigned to the 12 most attractive clubs but I don't see a new *structure* as such. 12 teams (possibly identical in make up to those that P&R would deliver), playing 27 rounds of rugby between February and October, with a MW included. No signs of a new comp or event. What will be different in terms of what the game offers to TV/media companies? 

I'm genuinely struggling to see what the new offer might be.

It does seem to be money for old rope up to now, unless you are a fervent supporter of IMG. Maybe us dinosaurs are missing something.

[RP London]

33 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

A few ifs and maybes there. Some thinking aloud. New seats at Cas, video refs. This really is the thinnest of thin gruel so far.

not at all.. everything I have stated are things that IMG have stated.. no ifs and maybes unless its the "if you'd been reading the thread" ifs... 

if you dont want to listen to them when they state aims, thats fair enough (but on you) but what you have stated.. 12 teams playing 27 rounds.. no signs of a new comp or event... etc are just patently not true. They have stated they would like 14 if/when there are enough teams of standard, they have stated they dont want loop fixtures, they are looking to scrap MW (but the clubs want it), they are floating ideas around roses etc (new events) but they cannot do everything at once, how do you fit another event/comp in if you cant get the clubs to open the fixture list up etc.. 

to simplify it to "New seats at Cas, video refs" just shows that unless IMG gave us £1billion (said like Dr Evil) they couldnt possibly be anything but useless.. its a long vision that needs time and not going to be fixed in 2 years but already there is a difference and they have stated their preference for even more differences to what they picked up. 

[Gooleboy]

11 minutes ago, RP London said:

not at all.. everything I have stated are things that IMG have stated.. no ifs and maybes unless its the "if you'd been reading the thread" ifs... 

if you dont want to listen to them when they state aims, thats fair enough (but on you) but what you have stated.. 12 teams playing 27 rounds.. no signs of a new comp or event... etc are just patently not true. They have stated they would like 14 if/when there are enough teams of standard, they have stated they dont want loop fixtures, they are looking to scrap MW (but the clubs want it), they are floating ideas around roses etc (new events) but they cannot do everything at once, how do you fit another event/comp in if you cant get the clubs to open the fixture list up etc.. 

to simplify it to "New seats at Cas, video refs" just shows that unless IMG gave us £1billion (said like Dr Evil) they couldnt possibly be anything but useless.. its a long vision that needs time and not going to be fixed in 2 years but already there is a difference and they have stated their preference for even more differences to what they picked up. 

These so called ideas from IMG that you mention, will have been discussed in boozers in RL areas for years! 

[Archie Gordon]

7 minutes ago, RP London said:

...

but what you have stated.. 12 teams playing 27 rounds.. no signs of a new comp or event... etc are just patently not true.

...

they would like ... they dont want ... they are looking to ... they are floating ideas ...

...

Para 1 is the reality until it isn't. 

Para 2 is *precisely* the ifs/maybes and thinking aloud that I referred to. It's not obvious to me that we will get beyond the hot air.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

These so called ideas from IMG that you mention, will have been discussed in boozers in RL areas for years! 

Listening to folk in boozers in RL areas, and pretty much exclusively them, has got us to where we are today.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

Para 1 is the reality until it isn't. 

Para 2 is *precisely* the ifs/maybes and thinking aloud that I referred to. It's not obvious to me that we will get beyond the hot air.

you must be great in a business setting.. 

you have asked what the different structure is that we are talking about so I have told you what they want it to be and that is what we are talking about in the post what the future structure is.. 

You asked what we will be different (future tense) and so I have listed the things that will be different.. they are what they want to do.. 

what more can you possibly ask of them right now?

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Listening to folk in boozers in RL areas, and pretty much exclusively them, has got us to where we are today.

not just listening to them but employing them!

[Archie Gordon]

5 minutes ago, RP London said:

you must be great in a business setting.. 

you have asked what the different structure is that we are talking about so I have told you what they want it to be and that is what we are talking about in the post what the future structure is.. 

You asked what we will be different (future tense) and so I have listed the things that will be different.. they are what they want to do.. 

what more can you possibly ask of them right now?

I don't know why you have to be snarky.

You've told me what *might* be different. I've said "thin gruel so far".