IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Apologies if posted previously....

https://hunsletrlfc.com/general/img-grading-2024-update/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFNKq5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfcz9Ih0KtTioBdTl1ettxxoXmctKvz4sy2A2A7KCwTeA1FoQQfGnukl3Q_aem_L-0uJEZc3bX8Rknw8FfmEw

Brilliantly put, and this is the telling piece in an insiteful statement from a guy at the sharp end, especially the last sentance:-

"As I’ve said many times before though, no one can ever be against improving standards, but I don’t believe that sport was ever meant to be judged primarily in that way. Performance on the field should be paramount. Promotion and relegation are, and always will be, the life blood of British sport and we should embrace that and see it as a strength rather than try to consider it as some kind of hindrance that requires a level of immunity. If you take away hopes and dreams then what’s left?"

Not a lot, just watch them drift away.

[RigbyLuger]

How do Hunslet ever become a Super League club? If it's impossible under grading, I don't see how much better a chance they have under promotion and relegation, or really, any other system. If Derek Beaumont had been born in South Leeds, maybe they'd be up there.

[Dave T]

I always enjoy the claims of trying to protect the clubs at the top table. What does it actually mean?

Did they protect the four clubs they relegated from the top division at the start of SL? 

Did they protect Widnes when they decided to relegate 2 teams to bring Catalans in. Or Cas the year later who finished above Catalans?

We've had 24 teams in SL over the last 28 years, which ones are we protecting?

[dboy]

17 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Brilliantly put, and this is the telling piece in an insiteful statement from a guy at the sharp end, especially the last sentance:-

"As I’ve said many times before though, no one can ever be against improving standards, but I don’t believe that sport was ever meant to be judged primarily in that way. Performance on the field should be paramount. Promotion and relegation are, and always will be, the life blood of British sport and we should embrace that and see it as a strength rather than try to consider it as some kind of hindrance that requires a level of immunity. If you take away hopes and dreams then what’s left?"

Not a lot, just watch them drift away.

I can't say I'd noticed a great deal of hoping and dreaming from Hunslet!

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, RP London said:

maybe by losing some and moving forward we will gain more than we lose, and that is a good thing.

That is one massive statement preceeded by 'maybe', and I wonder where these  that we gain will come from, I also wonder how many active RL fans are actually completely aware of who or what IMG are all about they are not all the nerds like us who frequent these sites, to those newbies you envisage will come a flocking it will still be just Rugby Lèague.

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, RP London said:

maybe by losing some and moving forward we will gain more than we lose, and that is a good thing.

That is one massive statement preceeded by 'maybe', and I wonder where these  that we gain will come from, I also wonder how many active RL fans are actually completely aware of who or what IMG are all about they are not all the nerds like us who frequent these sites, to those newbies you envisage will come a flocking it will still be just Rugby Lèague.

 

 

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, dboy said:

I can't say I'd noticed a great deal of hoping and dreaming from Hunslet!

Well quite. And this is at the core of the issue. Clubs like Hunslet, ran like 8th division north West counties league football clubs with Jim, Bob and Dave on the committee, are in an unrealistically high position relative to their actual strengths, because we don't have hundreds of clubs between them and the top tier. The reason we need a Grading system is because we haven't got 500 clubs between our equivalents of Man City and Liverpool, and Bradford PA or Ossett United.

Hunslet having any claim that their position is impeded by the grading criteria is ludicrous.

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Listening to folk in boozers in RL areas, and pretty much exclusively them, has got us to where we are today.

It may do you good to come up and listen to to those folks in the boozers other than speculating from afar.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

So I'm not following the point that 

We need change

Img are change

Therefore img is needed

You may not be Dave, but there are quite a few on here that are saying just that.

[Harry Stottle]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It may do you good to come up and listen to to those folks in the boozers other than speculating from afar.

@TommygilfI see you put a laughing emoji on my answer to Gingerjon, I can see why you think this way, if must be really difficult to find a RL fan in a boozer in Leeds.

Edited September 10, 2024 by Harry Stottle

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Well quite. And this is at the core of the issue. Clubs like Hunslet, ran like 8th division north West counties league football clubs with Jim, Bob and Dave on the committee, are in an unrealistically high position relative to their actual strengths, because we don't have hundreds of clubs between them and the top tier. The reason we need a Grading system is because we haven't got 500 clubs between our equivalents of Man City and Liverpool, and Bradford PA or Ossett United.

Hunslet having any claim that their position is impeded by the grading criteria is ludicrous.

This is the crux of it. Hunslet are far closer to a NCL Club and are probably worse than some on various metrics. Yet people expect the game to hold back the elite division just to pander to these clubs.

[RP London]

27 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That is one massive statement preceeded by 'maybe', and I wonder where these  that we gain will come from, I also wonder how many active RL fans are actually completely aware of who or what IMG are all about they are not all the nerds like us who frequent these sites, to those newbies you envisage will come a flocking it will still be just Rugby Lèague.

Why do you always wonder ifnactive fans are aware of IMG.. what does it matter? Who carse who is doing the research and coming up with ideas, whether it's the rfl or img it seems really odd that that is important.. it is utterly irrelevant to whether these plans are a success or not.. 

Yes it would still be Rugby league but played in nicer more attractive stadiums that are more family friendly and modern. It will be a better spectacle and will have better production values for the tv and media that can then increase revenue and sponsorship which then leads to the virtuous circle of increasing exposure and attendance. 

At the moment, to keep a small group of people happy we could (yes could) be missing it on growth. But we are certainly going backwards.. so do we want to carry on slipping or try something different..  

Our core competence right from the start of rl.was about entertainment, a better more open game that will get crowds in to pay for the broken time payments. That why we removed mauls and lines it's and took 2 players off the pitch. Right now people complain on this very forum that the game is not entertaining but even if that's true (and I'd argue about that) the product and the way it is pitched has lost that key element.. 

But we're back to you repeating points (like how many people on the terrace know about IMG) and that's just tiring and irrelevant to the round argument on IMG.  so I'll bow out from that thanks. 

[RigbyLuger]

34 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Well quite. And this is at the core of the issue. Clubs like Hunslet, ran like 8th division north West counties league football clubs with Jim, Bob and Dave on the committee, are in an unrealistically high position relative to their actual strengths, because we don't have hundreds of clubs between them and the top tier. The reason we need a Grading system is because we haven't got 500 clubs between our equivalents of Man City and Liverpool, and Bradford PA or Ossett United.

Hunslet having any claim that their position is impeded by the grading criteria is ludicrous.

And Ossett United are a merger of two clubs who realised they had to work together to survive, even at that low level of football!

[Tommygilf]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

@TommygilfI see you put a laughing emoji on my answer to Gingerjon, I can see why you think this way, if must be really difficult to find a RL fan in a boozer in Leeds.

A point as pathetic as the last.

[Tommygilf]

31 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is the crux of it. Hunslet are far closer to a NCL Club and are probably worse than some on various metrics. Yet people expect the game to hold back the elite division just to pander to these clubs.

This is it 110%.

If we had enough clubs between the likes of Hunslet and the elite professional division, then Hunslet would never have this delusion that even now isn't bringing in the punters.

[Tommygilf]

23 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

And Ossett United are a merger of two clubs who realised they had to work together to survive, even at that low level of football!

It's almost as if running a sports business isn't all about the dream and is about hard fiscal reality.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

I can't say I'd noticed a great deal of hoping and dreaming from Hunslet!

One thing is for certain dboy, they along with plenty others will have no requirement to hope and dream in the future, it will be taken away.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Well quite. And this is at the core of the issue. Clubs like Hunslet, ran like 8th division north West counties league football clubs with Jim, Bob and Dave on the committee, are in an unrealistically high position relative to their actual strengths, because we don't have hundreds of clubs between them and the top tier. The reason we need a Grading system is because we haven't got 500 clubs between our equivalents of Man City and Liverpool, and Bradford PA or Ossett United.

Hunslet having any claim that their position is impeded by the grading criteria is ludicrous.

 

40 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is the crux of it. Hunslet are far closer to a NCL Club and are probably worse than some on various metrics. Yet people expect the game to hold back the elite division just to pander to these clubs.

I honestly do not know why there are some on this site, who just don't say 'feck em all below SL' and just let the top clubs get on with it.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

I honestly do not know why there are some on this site, who just don't say 'feck em all below SL' and just let the top clubs get on with it.

Same reason as there are some who don't just say "feck em all that aren't my club and the localish teams I like playing" probably too.

[JohnM]

Is anyone didputing that things had to change? If not, why not? Anyone pleased with the status quo?

Even just standing still is not an option because everything else in this world is moving forward.

The games governing body recognised this and  thus began "Re-imagining Rugby League" 

It happens that IMG is the partner in this endeavour. They seem to fulfill all the requirements of such a partner. 

Who or what were the alternatives? Ultimate Rugby League? Did that exist then,? Does it exist now? What do the projects opponent really want? Jumpers for goalposts? 

 

[Harry Stottle]

35 minutes ago, RP London said:

Why do you always wonder ifnactive fans are aware of IMG.. what does it matter? Who carse who is doing the research and coming up with ideas, whether it's the rfl or img it seems really odd that that is important.. it is utterly irrelevant to whether these plans are a success or not.. 

Yes it would still be Rugby league but played in nicer more attractive stadiums that are more family friendly and modern. It will be a better spectacle and will have better production values for the tv and media that can then increase revenue and sponsorship which then leads to the virtuous circle of increasing exposure and attendance. 

At the moment, to keep a small group of people happy we could (yes could) be missing it on growth. But we are certainly going backwards.. so do we want to carry on slipping or try something different..  

Our core competence right from the start of rl.was about entertainment, a better more open game that will get crowds in to pay for the broken time payments. That why we removed mauls and lines it's and took 2 players off the pitch. Right now people complain on this very forum that the game is not entertaining but even if that's true (and I'd argue about that) the product and the way it is pitched has lost that key element.. 

But we're back to you repeating points (like how many people on the terrace know about IMG) and that's just tiring and irrelevant to the round argument on IMG.  so I'll bow out from that thanks. 

If aficionados of the game know little about what is going on who is going to tell those that this system wants to entice.

And please explain what relevance rule changes to make the game more attractive has to IMG's system, that is a forlorn argument.

[Harry Stottle]

21 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

A point as pathetic as the last.

Truth hurt Tommy?

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Same reason as there are some who don't just say "feck em all that aren't my club and the localish teams I like playing" probably too.

That cannot be directed at me, of all fans of SL clubs, I will keep on fighting for those below SL, unlike some I have never ever said "SL clubs earn the funding, it should rightfully be theirs"

[Castleford Hawk]

Were Hunslet delusional in 1999 when they won promotion to SL but were denied entry?  That is not the point being made here though.  The point is we believe in on field performance being the criteria clubs should be judged by.  Not only is that what sport is about, and what 76% of supporters surveyed wanted, but it is a lot simpler to understand and monitor than the farce we now have. Minimum standards have a part to play but let’s keep it simple, if you pay all your creditors on time that’s a tick for the finances - don’t make it more complicated than that.  

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Truth hurt Tommy?

No, it's just pathetic