The Reality of the IMG Grading System

[Pulga]

16 hours ago, DEANO said:

Exactly all the teams had something to play for with the threat of relegation 

That's not true when there is no minimum spend. You aren't playing for anything. You're just poor.

[Harry Stottle]

15 hours ago, Griff said:

Yet they were given contracts by a management which clearly underperformed by recruiting substandard players.

 

15 hours ago, Worzel said:

I’m sure they underperformed, the results are there to see. But you and I both know Derek’s epic melt down wasn’t exactly professional. 

Before the start of that season being '18 with the recruitment of that team they were the clear favourites without exception to 'walk' the league with all the commentators, scribes and experts such was the so called quality of the playing roster, honestly believe me when I tell you the hardest work they did was to hold out their hands to get paid each week, as unprofessional as you claim Mr Beaumont to have been the majority of those player's were worse.

[Dave T]

4 hours ago, Pulga said:

So 7 out of a possible 20 GF spots.

And out of 60 spots there's been 12 different teams? Ok?

And 11 out of 20 CC finalists. 

None of this really kills my argument although it's a strawman. I never said anything about different teams making finals. Just that 4 or 5 have any chance in any given year.

Wow. I'm surprised by how basic this is. I mean, 60 final slots? That's really weird comprehension. Do you even know how many top flight teams there are? 

Its quite clear your post was nonsense, making out that most teams in SL are just making up the numbers and are kmlh there to fight for survival, when in reality, 11 of the 12 top flight teams have appeared in finals and playoffs. 

Try naming these clubs you say are only there to aim for 11th?

Salford? Cas? Hull? 

Your post just isn't true on any level. 

Sure, the likes of Saints have had dominant spells, but that doesn't mean that Salford are adding nothing - they've been in a Grand Final and a Cup final (a classic one at that). 

 

[Griff]

45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Before the start of that season being '18 with the recruitment of that team they were the clear favourites without exception to 'walk' the league with all the commentators, scribes and experts such was the so called quality of the playing roster, honestly believe me when I tell you the hardest work they did was to hold out their hands to get paid each week, as unprofessional as you claim Mr Beaumont to have been the majority of those player's were worse.

Hold out their hands? Still paying cash in Leigh?

[up the robins]

On 13/04/2024 at 00:05, Pulga said:

Have you missed the last decade of the game where there are only 4 or 5 competitive teams and the rest race to 11th where they're safe? Get a grip.

The last decade has seen the emergence of two new teams challenging the established top few.

Both Hkr and Leigh are  huge success stories of the last couple of years and both built from good investment from promotion from championship.

Sometimes  relegation can help a team rebuild and change business plans and the way clubs approach things, rather than sitting safe in a nothing to play for bottom half sl.

We saw the demise of more teams under franchises than new teams and over the last few years there seems to be an emergence of new teams outside of the m62 corridor in the the lower leagues. 

We spend to much time putting our great sport down when we should be shouting from the rooftops how good it is, yes it has its faults but so does every sport.

Edited April 14 by up the robins

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, up the robins said:

We so the demise of more teams under franchises than new teams and over the last few years there seems to be an emergence of new teams outside of the m62 corridor in the the lower leagues. 

West Wales and London Skolars have both gone in the past couple of seasons.

Oxford gone, Hemel much scaled back, Gloucestershire All Golds likewise. Midlands are Coventry but moved.

The only new one is Cornwall.

[Harry Stottle]

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

West Wales and London Skolars have both gone in the past couple of seasons.

Oxford gone, Hemel much scaled back, Gloucestershire All Golds likewise. Midlands are Coventry but moved.

The only new one is Cornwall.

Yes no different than what has been going on for many years, I don't need to name those that have come and gone just as quicky, the game simply does not travel to far away from what was originated in the UK in 1895, yes it is a  northern game for northern folk, seeds are cast in other parts but it seems theyj just can't germinate elsewhere.

Do you think Cornwall will last the test of time?

[JohnM]

Northern game for northern folk? So that's what's made the North what it is today. Fraser was right. "We're all doomed!".  .

Though reflecting, I agree. Northern folk such as Frano Botica, Martyn Offiah, Adrian Lam, French, Field, ...all the other Northeners masquerading under Pacific Islands , PNG, NZ and Aus aliases.

[Liverpool Rover]

56 minutes ago, up the robins said:

Both Hkr and Leigh are  huge success stories of the last couple of years and both built from good investment from promotion from championship.

We saw the demise of more teams under franchises than new teams and over the last few years there seems to be an emergence of new teams outside of the m62 corridor in the the lower leagues.

Rovers and Leigh have backers that were willing to put big money into their clubs, not many other non SL clubs have those kinds of investors.

It wasn’t licensing that caused Bradford and Crusaders to demise, it was coincidental that it happened during licensing.

[phiggins]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

West Wales and London Skolars have both gone in the past couple of seasons.

Oxford gone, Hemel much scaled back, Gloucestershire All Golds likewise. Midlands are Coventry but moved.

The only new one is Cornwall.

But how is the new grading system going to make any difference to the fortunes of League 1 clubs? 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

yes it is a  northern game for northern folk

[DEANO]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes no different than what has been going on for many years, I don't need to name those that have come and gone just as quicky, the game simply does not travel to far away from what was originated in the UK in 1895, yes it is a  northern game for northern folk, seeds are cast in other parts but it seems theyj just can't germinate elsewhere.

Do you think Cornwall will last the test of time?

Unfortunately not

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Rover said:

Rovers and Leigh have backers that were willing to put big money into their clubs, not many other non SL clubs have those kinds of investors.

So what do you suggest?

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, JohnM said:

Northern game for northern folk? So that's what's made the North what it is today. Fraser was right. "We're all doomed!".  .

Though reflecting, I agree. Northern folk such as Frano Botica, Martyn Offiah, Adrian Lam, French, Field, ...all the other Northeners masquerading under Pacific Islands , PNG, NZ and Aus aliases.

Fictional Walmington on Sea was on the South Coast!

Which clubs did/do those you mention play for, Northern Clubs adjacent to the big concrete scar that is the M62 corridor, and they will mostly return from wence they came.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, phiggins said:

But how is the new grading system going to make any difference to the fortunes of League 1 clubs? 

I don't think it is, directly.

I also said at the time that the new system locks out clubs - from the professional structure not Super League.

[up the robins]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

Rovers and Leigh have backers that were willing to put big money into their clubs, not many other non SL clubs have those kinds of investors.

It wasn’t licensing that caused Bradford and Crusaders to demise, it was coincidental that it happened during licensing.

Rovers got the big backers after promotion to super league and would probably of been nowhere near our club had we not got there.

We have had a very steady backing from our saviours Neil and Rob who have steadily built our club over a couple of relegation and promotion battles. 

My point is why would anybody invest below super league level when the whole system is skewed against anyone been able to meet the criteria of a A grade.

Also people say about it not been a success outside the North! I'm sure it was mentioned that in the London squad that faced us there was 13 home grown players. I think that is an amazing achievement and one that puts all us Northern hot bed of talent clubs to shame as none of us even come close to that. 

I'm not certain but could the reason Newcastle have gone the way they have been down to the owner seeing no way of achieving the criteria to progress and hence why waste his time.

[JohnM]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Fictional Walmington on Sea was on the South Coast!

Which clubs did/do those you mention play for, Northern Clubs adjacent to the big concrete scar that is the M62 corridor, and they will mostly return from wence they came.

Filmed in Thetford, Norfolk. 

Leigh might be aspiring to the Parochial Div 1 of the League of Insular Gentlemen, but others may well differ.

 

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Filmed in Thetford, Norfolk. 

Leigh might be aspiring to the Parochial Div 1 of the League of Insular Gentlemen, but others may well differ.

 

Yeah Norfolk is still hardened RL country,

So tell me, in your life time of being involved in this game where has the expansion programme proved successful away from the confines of the M62 corridor save for London 40 few years ago, brush it up any way you want to John and call me parochial but at the bottom of it you know I am not to far off the truth, Rugby League does not travel well in this country, even your good self could only go down the road for your RL fix from your spiritual home of Swinton, to your new love.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

where has the expansion programme proved successful away from the confines of the M62 corridor

The same places where the expansion programme has been funded and resourced appropriately.

Edited April 14 by RugbyLeagueGeek

[JohnM]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yeah Norfolk is still hardened RL country,

So tell me, in your life time of being involved in this game where has the expansion programme proved successful away from the confines of the M62 corridor save for London 40 few years ago, brush it up any way you want to John and call me parochial but at the bottom of it you know I am not to far off the truth, Rugby League does not travel well in this country, even your good self could only go down the road for your RL fix from your spiritual home of Swinton, to your new love.

Somehow, though, I've managed to support and follow the game in varying degrees and intensity when I lived in Swinton, Manchester, Atherton, Hampshire, Switzerland, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Surrey, France and Lincolnshire. 

Expansion had been just  as successful as keeping the game alive in the frozen north, though. Whatever happened to Huyton, Trafford, Liverpool, Belle Vue,  Nottingham.....and although they are  still going, look at the great names of the past: Bradford, Halifax, Widnes, and clinging on are Wakefield, Castleford, Salford. We don't even know if Leigh are going to be sustainable in the long term.  Perhaps it's not geography, perhaps  it's northern folk who don't want the game at all or folk who want to keep the game small and local for fear of losing control, like an episode of "The League of Gentlemen". 

An exaggeration and a simplification, maybe, and not intending to demean and minimise the efforts, donations, loans, investment etc. that fans and directors and owners put in, but really, it's a more complex  issue than merely saying it's a northern game for northern folk.  It's 2024 not 1895. The world and is people are entirely different now, compared with them. Hence IMG. They live in the here and now.

 

Edited April 14 by JohnM

[Gooleboy]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

Somehow, though, I've managed to support and follow the game in varying degrees and intensity when I lived in Swinton, Manchester, Atherton, Hampshire, Switzerland, Cheshire, Yorkshire, Surrey, France and Lincolnshire. 

Expansion had been just  as successful as keeping the game alive in the frozen north, though. Whatever happened to Huyton, Trafford, Liverpool, Belle Vue,  Nottingham.....and although they are  still going, look at the great names of the past: Bradford, Halifax, Widnes, and clinging on are Wakefield, Castleford, Salford. We don't even know if Leigh are going to be sustainable in the long term.  Perhaps it's not geography, perhaps  it's northern folk who don't want the game at all or folk who want to keep the game small and local for fear of losing control, like an episode of "The League of Gentlemen". 

An exaggeration and a simplification, maybe, and not intending to demean and minimise the efforts, donations, loans, investment etc. that fans and directors and owners put in, but really, it's a more complex  issue than merely saying it's a northern game for northern folk.  It's 2024 not 1895. The world and is people are entirely different now, compared with them. Hence IMG. They live in the here and now.

 

IMG will not spread domestic RL. They will get their closed shop and that will be it. Not a chance of any new clubs, (if any come on board) getting anywhere near the SL. If they are still around in five years tops I will be amazed.

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

The same places where the expansion programme has been funded and resourced appropriately.

Where's that then?

[Worzel]

23 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

 

Before the start of that season being '18 with the recruitment of that team they were the clear favourites without exception to 'walk' the league with all the commentators, scribes and experts such was the so called quality of the playing roster, honestly believe me when I tell you the hardest work they did was to hold out their hands to get paid each week, as unprofessional as you claim Mr Beaumont to have been the majority of those player's were worse.

When performance is this far under expectation it is almost always a fault of leadership:

- Either you recruited the wrong people, whether the wrong "type" because you misunderstood the mission, or the right type but not good enough because you assessed them incorrectly (whether their skills, or their culture-fit)...

- Or perhaps you recruited the right people but didn't coach and develop them well, or create a culture within which they could perform...

- Or maybe you recruited the right people, did the development stuff too, but failed to performance manage them on the initial times that they under-performed and create an "improvement environment"

So like I say this level of failure is always a fault of leadership. One player under-performing, that's his fault and you deal with it and move on. An entire team under-performing, over an entire year? That's your fault, or the people you hired to lead them's fault (which is also your fault), and so its a cowards way out to just cast blame downwards.

 

[Worzel]

9 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

IMG will not spread domestic RL. They will get their closed shop and that will be it. Not a chance of any new clubs, (if any come on board) getting anywhere near the SL. If they are still around in five years tops I will be amazed.

"New clubs" to spread domestic RL isn't a success metric. Increasing the value of media rights, which creates a more attractive investment environment later (whether for investors into new clubs, or investors into future additional clubs) is the success metric. But the first thing comes first. If we believe that the best way to do that is move to a closed comp, based on some quality criteria broader than "spend a fortune on your team for one season", in order to provide the ability for clubs to better plan for the long-term, then this is the right path. "Spreading" doesn't matter yet. 

Rugby league has often put the second thing first, with dots on maps, or grandiose dreams of new comps or random events. We've tried that for years. 

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Worzel said:

When performance is this far under expectation it is almost always a fault of leadership:

- Either you recruited the wrong people, whether the wrong "type" because you misunderstood the mission, or the right type but not good enough because you assessed them incorrectly (whether their skills, or their culture-fit)...

- Or perhaps you recruited the right people but didn't coach and develop them well, or create a culture within which they could perform...

- Or maybe you recruited the right people, did the development stuff too, but failed to performance manage them on the initial times that they under-performed and create an "improvement environment"

So like I say this level of failure is always a fault of leadership. One player under-performing, that's his fault and you deal with it and move on. An entire team under-performing, over an entire year? That's your fault, or the people you hired to lead them's fault (which is also your fault), and so its a cowards way out to just cast blame downwards.

 

Yes you can play 'The buck stops here' card anyway you like, tell that to thousands of parents who have done everything humanly possible to teach and bring up their offspring in a correct and proper manner, but it doesn't always work does it?