An Ashes Tour Itinerary For A New Era

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

See my earlier comments. I believe that would better suit the realm of a B&I Lions tour (Aus, NZ, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji and PNG).

I believe an Ashes Tour should be an Australian tour against Australian sides.

Northern Union/GB have never toured Australia exclusively.

[marklaspalmas]

8 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Come on, I can't be the only one.

Burleigh Bears.

Will no-one think of the Burleigh Bears?

https://www.nrl.com/news/2016/09/30/the-night-burleigh-almost-beat-great-britain/

[arcticchris]

If we could get 3 warm up games to allow players to play themselves into the test side then I would like to see a game against an Indigenous select first for the non grand final players then run with the likely test side against Fiji before a game against PNG as the final warm up.

 

If the budget allowed it then a game between other test 1 and 2 or test 2 and 3 against a NSW cup select would allow the fringe players to stake their claim and stay match fit along with give them a purpose to avoid them going into off season mode.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

I agree.

So, PNG in Port Moresby, Fiji in Perth?

Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne for the ashes tests?

Personally I would also play a home game against France before touring, similar to what the RU Lions now do. I think it's a great way of publicising the forthcoming tour.

 

 

 

I think that'd be great.

[WN83]

We’re at the stage with international rugby league that anything will do. I’m not holding my breath that it happens but I’ll be delighted if it does. Anything on top of 3 Ashes tests would be great but just those games happening will be a start. Sadly I doubt they’ll announce anything for a good while yet. They’ve not announced anything for the end of 2024 yet have they? Doubt 2025 has even been given a thought. 

[lucky 7]

1 hour ago, WN83 said:

We’re at the stage with international rugby league that anything will do. I’m not holding my breath that it happens but I’ll be delighted if it does. Anything on top of 3 Ashes tests would be great but just those games happening will be a start. Sadly I doubt they’ll announce anything for a good while yet. They’ve not announced anything for the end of 2024 yet have they? Doubt 2025 has even been given a thought. 

Australians have little interest in international Rugby League. For them the pinnacle of the game is SOO.

[Anita Bath]

9 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Toowomba have beaten GB a few times.  

They couldnt beat an egg.

Toowoomba are winless and bottom of the QRL. 

Its a different team (western clydesdales) from the old Toowoomba Clydesdales.

[Lowdesert]

12 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

They couldnt beat an egg.

Toowoomba are winless and bottom of the QRL. 

Its a different team (western clydesdales) from the old Toowoomba Clydesdales.

So the records aren’t true?

[Anita Bath]

Records are true of course. But in the context of the discussion, to play the current Toowoomba club would be a mismatch of unprecedented proportion.

In the same light I never put a bet on Batley winning the challenge cup, even though they have a history of winning it.

[Jparrish]

Nothing booked in for 2024 down here yet. And I would love England to tour here in 25 but have little faith.

But I will throw my itenenry in:

Warm up v either Samoa or Lebanon at the commbank stadium in Western Sydney. (Would sell well given demographics and would be a good test )

Game 1 Sydney football stadium 

Game 2 Aami Park,Melbourne 

Game 3 Suncorp stadium, Brisbane 

Port Moresby for a PNG game on the way in or out ? If feasible 

[Sports Prophet]

5 hours ago, Gomersall said:

Northern Union/GB have never toured Australia exclusively.

I’m pretty sure I’ve already said that I think a GB&I tour should encompass the wider Australasian nations. They certainly have toured without playing Australia more than once. So I don’t think anything is set in stone.

This however is England competing in their first Ashes series (I think) and in any case, I stand by my position. I think the Ashes should be a tour exclusively against Australian teams. Especially with this being a proposed “An Ashes Tour Itinerary For A New Era”.

[NRLandSL]

5 hours ago, lucky 7 said:

Australians have little interest in international Rugby League. For them the pinnacle of the game is SOO.

Not true, there is a huge intrest in international rugby league. We just consistent tournaments and fixtures to reach its potential. 

[Big Picture]

14 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I’m pretty sure I’ve already said that I think a GB&I tour should encompass the wider Australasian nations. They certainly have toured without playing Australia more than once. So I don’t think anything is set in stone.

This however is England competing in their first Ashes series (I think) and in any case, I stand by my position. I think the Ashes should be a tour exclusively against Australian teams. Especially with this being a proposed “An Ashes Tour Itinerary For A New Era”.

No it wouldn't be England competing in their first Ashes series.  As you can clearly see, before the 1946 tour down under the Ashes was England vs Australia and Great Britain didn't exist.

[17 stone giant]

What non-English players have been important (or even just involved) in past Ashes series?

I obviously remember Jonathan Davies being brilliant in the 1st test in 1994, but he went off injured in that match and didn't play again that series.

I know that he also came on during the 3rd test in 1990.

I'm also not counting players like Iestyn Harris, who I consider to be English really, despite him playing for Wales. Likewise Keiron Cunningham.

I want proper Welsh or Scottish born players.

[The Magic Rat]

John Devereux played in the 1992 World Cup final for GB, not sure if he played on the 1992 tour though 

[Big Picture]

45 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

What non-English players have been important (or even just involved) in past Ashes series?

I obviously remember Jonathan Davies being brilliant in the 1st test in 1994, but he went off injured in that match and didn't play again that series.

I know that he also came on during the 3rd test in 1990.

I'm also not counting players like Iestyn Harris, who I consider to be English really, despite him playing for Wales. Likewise Keiron Cunningham.

I want proper Welsh or Scottish born players.

You won't see any of those until RL has a much higher profile and a lot more money to get and keep them interested in it.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

No it wouldn't be England competing in their first Ashes series.  As you can clearly see, before the 1946 tour down under the Ashes was England vs Australia and Great Britain didn't exist.

Ah this old chestnut again. The team may have been called England, but it represented Great Britain. For example, Welshman Jim Sullivan did the 1924, 1928 and 1932 Lions tours, and captained them on the 1932 tour. There are loads of Welsh players who played for 'England' before they were seemingly officially called Great Britain. We shouldn't fall in to the trap of looking back at things like team branding and identity of the pre-war era through 21st century goggles. 

1 hour ago, 17 stone giant said:

What non-English players have been important (or even just involved) in past Ashes series?

I obviously remember Jonathan Davies being brilliant in the 1st test in 1994, but he went off injured in that match and didn't play again that series.

I know that he also came on during the 3rd test in 1990.

I'm also not counting players like Iestyn Harris, who I consider to be English really, despite him playing for Wales. Likewise Keiron Cunningham.

I want proper Welsh or Scottish born players.

There's been loads over the years. Depends how far you want to go back. E.g. Scotsman Dave Valentine toured with the Lions in 1954 and was GB captain when we won the world cup that year. Obviously there's also the likes of Clive Sullivan, Gus Risman and Billy Boston in terms of all-time greats who played for GB in Ashes series. If you look back, Welsh players have played a massive part in the history of rugby league.

Edited April 19 by RugbyLeagueGeek

[17 stone giant]

2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

There's been loads over the years. Depends how far you want to go back. E.g. Scotsman Dave Valentine toured with the Lions in 1954 and was GB captain when we won the world cup that year. Obviously there's also the likes of Clive Sullivan, Gus Risman and Billy Boston in terms of all-time greats who played for GB in Ashes series. If you look back, Welsh players have played a massive part in the history of rugby league.

So are we neglecting that history a bit if we play an Ashes series as England instead of GB? Or does it not matter that much anymore, because most of it is quite a long time ago. Even Phil Ford and Jonathan Davies is 30 plus years ago.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

5 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

So are we neglecting that history a bit if we play an Ashes series as England instead of GB? Or does it not matter that much anymore, because most of it is quite a long time ago. Even Phil Ford and Jonathan Davies is 30 plus years ago.

I think it's a much bigger question than that to be honest - I think serious questions need to be asked/answered about what we want the international game to look like in the northern hemisphere, what is realistic/feasible, and what steps do we need to take to get to that point. And by 'we' I mean the decision makers in this part of the world. As it stands, the state of the international game is a complete and utter disgrace IMO - by and large just a complete afterthought with no long-term strategy whatsoever.

[StandOffHalf]

On 18/04/2024 at 17:48, arcticchris said:

If we could get 3 warm up games to allow players to play themselves into the test side then I would like to see a game against an Indigenous select first for the non grand final players then run with the likely test side against Fiji before a game against PNG as the final warm up.

 

If the budget allowed it then a game between other test 1 and 2 or test 2 and 3 against a NSW cup select would allow the fringe players to stake their claim and stay match fit along with give them a purpose to avoid them going into off season mode.

Exactly this. I don't think there is the finance for a 7-game tour but in an ideal world such an itinerary would allow the second-stringers a chance to stake their case and build up to the Kangaroos.

Edited April 20 by StandOffHalf

[StandOffHalf]

11 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Ah this old chestnut again. The team may have been called England, but it represented Great Britain. For example, Welshman Jim Sullivan did the 1924, 1928 and 1932 Lions tours, and captained them on the 1932 tour. There are loads of Welsh players who played for 'England' before they were seemingly officially called Great Britain. We shouldn't fall in to the trap of looking back at things like team branding and identity of the pre-war era through 21st century goggles. 

There's been loads over the years. Depends how far you want to go back. E.g. Scotsman Dave Valentine toured with the Lions in 1954 and was GB captain when we won the world cup that year. Obviously there's also the likes of Clive Sullivan, Gus Risman and Billy Boston in terms of all-time greats who played for GB in Ashes series. If you look back, Welsh players have played a massive part in the history of rugby league.

Bang on.

England in the semi post-colonial present tends to mean just England. English used to be somewhat synonymous/interchangeable with British. Hence, patriotic songs such as Vera Lynn's 'There'll Always Be An England'.

I think there is an argument that the team for Ashes series and tours should be styled as GB, as that would continue the tradition - and allow for any stand-out non-English players to be there.

Edited April 20 by StandOffHalf

[Sports Prophet]

12 hours ago, Big Picture said:

No it wouldn't be England competing in their first Ashes series.  As you can clearly see, before the 1946 tour down under the Ashes was England vs Australia and Great Britain didn't exist.

You may be right but I see no mention of “The Ashes” on that programme.

[Big Picture]

21 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You may be right but I see no mention of “The Ashes” on that programme.

It clearly says "Second Test Match".  When did Australia ever play a series of such matches in Britain (or at home against a team from Britain) except when they were for the Ashes??????????

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

It clearly says "Second Test Match".  When did Australia ever play a series of such matches in Britain (or at home against a team from Britain) except when they were for the Ashes??????????

Don’t know. 1937 maybe  

[Gomersall]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

You may be right but I see no mention of “The Ashes” on that programme.

I’d post a picture but I don’t know how to shrink them down to the size of a postage stamp. No mention of Ashes here either. Do only matches where the programme (notice the 2 ms and an e?) mentions it’s an Ashes Test count?

https://rugbyreplay.co.uk/Australia-v-Great-Britain-3rd-Test-1958-Rugby-League-Programme

Edited April 20 by Gomersall