Championship 2025 Onwards

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

8 hours ago, RayCee said:

Give more players a chance to play at the highest level and some of them will get up to speed. Depth in quality will improve over time. Having said that, every year there are teams off the pace in the NRL. The same with the EPL. There are always teams off the pace. Two more sides means more variety and no loop fixtures. The real issue IMO is can it be afforded? 

 

It really doesn't work like that. We've had almost 30 years of SL and still there aren't enough players for 12 competitive, nevermind 14, teams - see also football where teams promoted to the PL struggle to recruit enough quality players to survive.

[Archie Gordon]

3 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It really doesn't work like that. We've had almost 30 years of SL and still there aren't enough players for 12 competitive, nevermind 14, teams - see also football where teams promoted to the PL struggle to recruit enough quality players to survive.

Nor are there currently 12 clubs capable of operating at the top level.

[georgeb1]

5 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

It really doesn't work like that. We've had almost 30 years of SL and still there aren't enough players for 12 competitive, nevermind 14, teams - see also football where teams promoted to the PL struggle to recruit enough quality players to survive.

There are plenty of talented players in the champ to play superleague , point is they choose not to.

[Rene_Artois]

1 hour ago, georgeb1 said:

There are plenty of talented players in the champ to play superleague , point is they choose not to.

True. Reason being they are better off being part time with a well paid main income and a decent top up from playing in the championship. Full time at bottom end of super league just doesn't pay enough.

[dkw]

2 hours ago, georgeb1 said:

There are plenty of talented players in the champ to play superleague , point is they choose not to.

Not just Championship, L1 and even amateurs find it hard to go to SL clubs on the low wages offered. I know of plenty of Cumbrian lads who have turned down chances to go "full time" as they simply cant afford the drop in wages to take the shot at it.

[The Blues Ox]

6 hours ago, georgeb1 said:

There are plenty of talented players in the champ to play superleague , point is they choose not to.

Again comes back to money and there not been enough in the game. Teams voting to increase SL to 14 teams won't help in that respect.

[Sports Prophet]

I think a good idea for the RFL and Championship clubs is to come up with a themed round which each club hosts at least once in a home game during the season.

“Champions of the Championship” or “Saturday Night’s Under Lights” or another title.

Focus on a key opponent (local derby or another rivalry of some sort) with activations delivered by sponsors of both clubs and the Championship. Fireworks, pop up brewers and caterers. Community groups, business networking groups/chamber of commerce. Mini’s tournament.

Anything which positions the Championship club as a Champion Club of/for the Community.

Let the event roll from club to club as a not to be missed league match. Events and community, that is how semi-pro 2nd tier clubs will consolidate their place as a potential SL club of the future.

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

33 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think a good idea for the RFL and Championship clubs is to come up with a themed round which each club hosts at least once in a home game during the season.

“Champions of the Championship” or “Saturday Night’s Under Lights” or another title.

Focus on a key opponent (local derby or another rivalry of some sort) with activations delivered by sponsors of both clubs and the Championship. Fireworks, pop up brewers and caterers. Community groups, business networking groups/chamber of commerce. Mini’s tournament.

Anything which positions the Championship club as a Champion Club of/for the Community.

Let the event roll from club to club as a not to be missed league match. Events and community, that is how semi-pro 2nd tier clubs will consolidate their place as a potential SL club of the future.

Yeah, it's that simple....

[Sports Prophet]

22 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Yeah, it's that simple....

It’s that simple for the Newtown Jets and it is better than people saying the Championship is not a viable competition for professional football anymore isn’t it?

Edited November 25, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[LeytherRob]

53 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think a good idea for the RFL and Championship clubs is to come up with a themed round which each club hosts at least once in a home game during the season.

“Champions of the Championship” or “Saturday Night’s Under Lights” or another title.

Focus on a key opponent (local derby or another rivalry of some sort) with activations delivered by sponsors of both clubs and the Championship. Fireworks, pop up brewers and caterers. Community groups, business networking groups/chamber of commerce. Mini’s tournament.

Anything which positions the Championship club as a Champion Club of/for the Community.

Let the event roll from club to club as a not to be missed league match. Events and community, that is how semi-pro 2nd tier clubs will consolidate their place as a potential SL club of the future.

It sounds great day out, but what you’ve described takes a huge amount of resources to pull off for a semi pro club, both financially and logistically. It’s a huge risk which in all likelihood results in a fairly modest payoff.

[Sports Prophet]

2 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

It sounds great day out, but what you’ve described takes a huge amount of resources to pull off for a semi pro club, both financially and logistically. It’s a huge risk which in all likelihood results in a fairly modest payoff.

These clubs need to engage active volunteers to assist. You are right, it does take some effort, but are we satisfied that clubs with the support of the RFL cannot turn their attention to making a big deal of one game a season?

Heck, even Skokars could do it twice a year, once a pre-season with Broncos and then again on Challenge Cup weekend.

If not, then they probably don’t belong in the business of professional sports.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[gingerjon]

59 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Heck, even Skokars could do it twice a year, once a pre-season with Broncos and then again on Challenge Cup weekend.

That must have worked well for them.

Who are they playing next?

[LeytherRob]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

These clubs need to engage active volunteers to assist. You are right, it does take some effort, but are we satisfied that clubs with the support of the RFL cannot turn their attention to making a big deal of one game a season?

Heck, even Skokars could do it twice a year, once a pre-season with Broncos and then again on Challenge Cup weekend.

If not, then they probably don’t belong in the business of professional sports.

and that is perfectly fine for a club that is on the doorstep of a major event they can piggyback off, as it was for gateshead/newcastle and magic weekend. It gives them a very high reward for not much risk (all they have to do is make sure they have a home game scheduled that weekend to take advantage of additional RL fans in the area. But for any championship or league 1 clubs not in that position, you are suggesting they take a huge financial gamble with a good chance it doesn't pay off.

It's very evident you haven't been involved in organising an event like this as you don't seem to appreciate the cost this will incur and are coming from things from a purely consumer perspective - and i get it, as i said it sounds like a good day out... 

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I think a good idea for the RFL and Championship clubs is to come up with a themed round which each club hosts at least once in a home game during the season.

“Champions of the Championship” or “Saturday Night’s Under Lights” or another title.

Focus on a key opponent (local derby or another rivalry of some sort) with activations delivered by sponsors of both clubs and the Championship. Fireworks, pop up brewers and caterers. Community groups, business networking groups/chamber of commerce. Mini’s tournament.

Anything which positions the Championship club as a Champion Club of/for the Community.

Let the event roll from club to club as a not to be missed league match. Events and community, that is how semi-pro 2nd tier clubs will consolidate their place as a potential SL club of the future.

Going back to your original post, let's break it down fairly crudely

• activations delivered by sponsors of both clubs and the Championship - straight off the bat, you've got logistical issues coordinating multiple sponsors and you are asking them to incur costs to themselves
• Fireworks - don't come cheap
• pop up brewers and caterers - sounds great, until you consider that these are external vendors and expect to be paid. 'They can come for free because then they'll make their money back on the day!' maybe you'll say, but then a small championship club that makes most of its income on gate receipts and concessions now loses one of its main revenue streams for a local derby match.
• Community groups, business networking groups/chamber of commerce. Mini’s tournament. - again, big logistical and planning challenges for clubs with very little to no full-time staff.

Now all that is before you even consider that all the above could be planned at great expense and then the great British weather will deliver an absolute washout

[EggFace]

30 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

and that is perfectly fine for a club that is on the doorstep of a major event they can piggyback off, as it was for gateshead/newcastle and magic weekend. It gives them a very high reward for not much risk (all they have to do is make sure they have a home game scheduled that weekend to take advantage of additional RL fans in the area. But for any championship or league 1 clubs not in that position, you are suggesting they take a huge financial gamble with a good chance it doesn't pay off.

It's very evident you haven't been involved in organising an event like this as you don't seem to appreciate the cost this will incur and are coming from things from a purely consumer perspective - and i get it, as i said it sounds like a good day out... 

Going back to your original post, let's break it down fairly crudely

• activations delivered by sponsors of both clubs and the Championship - straight off the bat, you've got logistical issues coordinating multiple sponsors and you are asking them to incur costs to themselves
• Fireworks - don't come cheap
• pop up brewers and caterers - sounds great, until you consider that these are external vendors and expect to be paid. 'They can come for free because then they'll make their money back on the day!' maybe you'll say, but then a small championship club that makes most of its income on gate receipts and concessions now loses one of its main revenue streams for a local derby match.
• Community groups, business networking groups/chamber of commerce. Mini’s tournament. - again, big logistical and planning challenges for clubs with very little to no full-time staff.

Now all that is before you even consider that all the above could be planned at great expense and then the great British weather will deliver an absolute washout

Maybe clubs should start brewing their own beverages and catering sections.

[Expatknight]

41 minutes ago, EggFace said:

Maybe clubs should start brewing their own beverages and catering sections.

Or maybe we should just give up doing anything because it bis too hard, which is exactly the kind of mentality that has held this sport back for the last 100 years, we won't do it unless someone else pays / takes all the risks, god forbid the clubs should actually do things off their own bat. When someone does come along and suggests something,  for every one supporting voice there are twenty wanting to shout it down, just look at Derek Beaumont at Leigh, he might not be everyones cup of tea, and many might not think what he has done there bis 'Rugby League' but it gets people talking and that has to be a good thing.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Expatknight
TYPO

[LeytherRob]

47 minutes ago, Expatknight said:

Or maybe we should just give up doing anything because it bis too hard, which is exactly the kind of mentality that has held this sport back for the last 100 years, we won't do it unless someone else pays / takes all the risks, god forbid the clubs should actually do things off their own bat. When someone does come along and suggests something, for every one supporting voice there are twenty wanting to shout it down, just look at Derek Beaumont at Leigh, he might not be everyones cup of tea, and many might not think what he has done there bis 'Rugby League' but it gets people talking and that has to be a good thing.

But that is someone else paying and taking all the risk. Very few clubs below SL have a DB or similar that can take large financial hits in the short term for potential longer-term games, clubs living hand to mouth just don't have that capacity and it's the unfortunate chicken and egg situation that much of the UK game finds itself in currently.

That's not to say there aren't things clubs can be savvier on, it's just that there needs to be a degree of realism. Even at Leigh things are very much scaled down from DB in terms of prematch and marketing when outside the SL because the market is smaller and doesn't have the gains to justify the spend in the same way it can at SL level.

Honestly the best thing that clubs at any level of the professional game should be taking from Leigh under DB is the membership scheme replacing traditional season tickets, it's a pretty modest outlay (certainly if you scale back the fancy boxes etc) but switching to a year round monthly subscription for fans and packaging things like club tv services and shirts as a really straightforward way to get more money and commitment from the fanbase and guarantee income all year round. Fans can and will pay more if it's spread over the year rather than asking them to spend hundreds (more if it's someone buying for a family) at once, right before xmas. 

[Sports Prophet]

8 hours ago, gingerjon said:

That must have worked well for them.

Who are they playing next?

It kept them going for at least ten more years than they would have lasted without it GJ.

[Sports Prophet]

7 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

and that is perfectly fine for a club that is on the doorstep of a major event they can piggyback off, as it was for gateshead/newcastle and magic weekend. It gives them a very high reward for not much risk (all they have to do is make sure they have a home game scheduled that weekend to take advantage of additional RL fans in the area. But for any championship or league 1 clubs not in that position, you are suggesting they take a huge financial gamble with a good chance it doesn't pay off.

It's very evident you haven't been involved in organising an event like this as you don't seem to appreciate the cost this will incur and are coming from things from a purely consumer perspective - and i get it, as i said it sounds like a good day out... 

Going back to your original post, let's break it down fairly crudely

• activations delivered by sponsors of both clubs and the Championship - straight off the bat, you've got logistical issues coordinating multiple sponsors and you are asking them to incur costs to themselves
• Fireworks - don't come cheap
• pop up brewers and caterers - sounds great, until you consider that these are external vendors and expect to be paid. 'They can come for free because then they'll make their money back on the day!' maybe you'll say, but then a small championship club that makes most of its income on gate receipts and concessions now loses one of its main revenue streams for a local derby match.
• Community groups, business networking groups/chamber of commerce. Mini’s tournament. - again, big logistical and planning challenges for clubs with very little to no full-time staff.

Now all that is before you even consider that all the above could be planned at great expense and then the great British weather will deliver an absolute washout

The annual pre-season challenge was not off the back of any such major event they could piggy back off. It was an event in itself, held at a fantastic inner London venue which drew in thousands of supporters of London RL and gave them an experience which any person attending the pre-match lunch paid over £100 a seat for. 

My management experience includes management of multiple hospitality options for NRL, MLB, Cricket and the Asian Cup, so I do have some experience.

Activations are there for sponsors to take advantage of (or not, if they don’t want in) and I expect most would be beside themselves to see the club they sponsor to run one major event a year targeting the wider community where the sponsor could have an activation of some sort… let alone an opportunity to forge some new local partnerships.

Fireworks aren’t that expensive. Especially for a contractor with a job every fortnight. It’s not even essential to the idea.

As to losing a revenue driver in catering, I think you will find that ticket sales provide a far greater return than food and drink. 

If local clubs are not a part of their local chamber and wider community groups, then more fool them. As an active community partner, these groups are the ones which will jump to suppport such an event.

All I heard in your post were feeble excuses. I don’t expect this to be an event for League 1 clubs, this is for clubs in the Championship who should have aspirations of being in SL (or at least should have up to this year) and if they don’t have the partnerships and fan/community engagement to run a single event like this a year then that tells me either they need an event like this even more, or they don’t belong in the Championship.

[LeytherRob]

23 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The annual pre-season challenge was not off the back of any such major event they could piggy back off. It was an event in itself, held at a fantastic inner London venue which drew in thousands of supporters of London RL and gave them an experience which any person attending the pre-match lunch paid over £100 a seat for. 

My management experience includes management of multiple hospitality options for NRL, MLB, Cricket and the Asian Cup, so I do have some experience.

Activations are there for sponsors to take advantage of (or not, if they don’t want in) and I expect most would be beside themselves to see the club they sponsor to run one major event a year targeting the wider community where the sponsor could have an activation of some sort… let alone an opportunity to forge some new local partnerships.

Fireworks aren’t that expensive. Especially for a contractor with a job every fortnight. It’s not even essential to the idea.

As to losing a revenue driver in catering, I think you will find that ticket sales provide a far greater return than food and drink. 

If local clubs are not a part of their local chamber and wider community groups, then more fool them. As an active community partner, these groups are the ones which will jump to suppport such an event.

All I heard in your post were feeble excuses. I don’t expect this to be an event for League 1 clubs, this is for clubs in the Championship who should have aspirations of being in SL (or at least should have up to this year) and if they don’t have the partnerships and fan/community engagement to run a single event like this a year then that tells me either they need an event like this even more, or they don’t belong in the Championship.

I assume you are referring to the Capital challenge since that was the only preseason event at an inner london location (HAC). Here is a quick look at a few years:

• 2016 London Skolars vs Wigan, attendance 576 (London Skolars » Capital Challenge – Full Match Report)
• 2017 London Skolars vs Wigan, attendance 675 (London Skolars » London Skolars vs Wigan Warriors: Match Report)
• 2019 London Skolars vs Wigan, attendance 712 (London Skolars » MATCH REPORT: LONDON SKOLARS vs WIGAN WARRIORS XIII)
• 2024 London Skolars vs London Broncos, attendance est 300 (MATCH REPORT: London Skolars vs London Broncos Reserves)

I can only assume the thousands you refer to were over the entire history of the event....

 

 

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

I assume you are referring to the Capital challenge since that was the only preseason event at an inner london location (HAC). Here is a quick look at a few years:

• 2016 London Skolars vs Wigan, attendance 576 (London Skolars » Capital Challenge – Full Match Report)
• 2017 London Skolars vs Wigan, attendance 675 (London Skolars » London Skolars vs Wigan Warriors: Match Report)
• 2019 London Skolars vs Wigan, attendance 712 (London Skolars » MATCH REPORT: LONDON SKOLARS vs WIGAN WARRIORS XIII)
• 2024 London Skolars vs London Broncos, attendance est 300 (MATCH REPORT: London Skolars vs London Broncos Reserves)

I can only assume the thousands you refer to were over the entire history of the event....

 

 

I was referring to the Capital Challenge. My experience pre-dated those you have noted. There were various ticket options which included hospitality and non-hospitality options. I can’t speak for the performance of those later years and nor would I endorse the performance of management I. Those later years.

The attendance figures quoted above may or may not be relevant, the point is that this is a low performing 3rd tier club which was able to run a bespoke event fitting the specific needs of that specific event. In my experience, these were financially successful and allowed very valuable networking opportunities.

What I proposed earlier is a different event, targeting vastly different communities than the Skolars Capital Challenge.

In any case, you can disagree with the validity of using Skolars as an example, the main point being back to what I have said already on multiple occasions. If Championship clubs, with the support of the RFL are not capable of pulling off one big event a year to pull in 5,000 through the gate or at least make a steady effort to grow towards that number in future years, then I question why this club even wants to participate at Championship level.

[gingerjon]

First round of fixtures

[dkw]

I think some of you need to spend some time at these clubs to get a realistic view to their situations. Its so easy to say "get volunteers" , where do we get them from over and above the ones we have now? These clubs are mostly based in small communities with a more and more difficult job of getting people to watch the games, let alone volunteer their free time. i cant speak for other clubs but mine is doing the best they can to get as many people involved in things outside of game day, thats the only viable way of bringing in  decent income. These "special days" very rarely make enough money to cover the outgoings needed unfortunately, thats the reality.

[EggFace]

18 hours ago, EggFace said:

Maybe clubs should start brewing their own beverages and catering sections.

Whats so funny as if I had my own little pro/semi pro club I be cutting corners and base it on the old social clubs and instead of relaying on Greene King or some off naff I be looking to produce my own bees for the club.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

First round of fixtures

Yeds have two home games to start. Looks like Batley have a free first round, their first game is at BP, in the second round, against the yeds. Can honestly say  I'm excited about our return to the championship. 

[gingerjon]

21 minutes ago, EggFace said:

 looking to produce my own bees for the club.

It's been a while since we've had such an awesome typo.

Bees on the field, giant crows in the stands.