Salford financial issues(again…)

[dboy]

It looks like it will boil down to, "do what Carter says, or you WILL be put into administration".

Last chance saloon.

[Dullish Mood]

Jaysus…..Michael Carter?  Get ready to take your own packed lunches in Salford players.

[dboy]

Carter kept Wakefield Trinity alive when the vultures were circling.

Purely on a money in/money out mantra, and an assembling of a team of money-ballers, he kept the wolves from the door and ran a club that punched as hard as it could.

Alternatively Salford can keep buying players, keep defaulting on their rent, keep blaming someone else, keep hiding behind the settee, keep pretending an advertising hording will solve their problems and keep saying that the money saved on not paying the rent that they already don't pay will be the difference in future outgoings...and then be declared insolvent.

Grown up choices to be made soon...

[RigbyLuger]

1 hour ago, dboy said:

Carter kept Wakefield Trinity alive when the vultures were circling.

Purely on a money in/money out mantra, and an assembling of a team of money-ballers, he kept the wolves from the door and ran a club that punched as hard as it could.

Carter crawled so Ellis could run and become the fans favourite. Some have forgotten how bad things have been at Wakefield at times, and how important that regime was in sorting it out.

[Wakey Til I Die]

36 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Carter crawled so Ellis could run and become the fans favourite. Some have forgotten how bad things have been at Wakefield at times, and how important that regime was in sorting it out.

Exactly. For Wakefield, without Michael Carter there would be no Matt Ellis. He deserves credit for keeping us solvent, keeping us in SL until the stadium rebuild was a goer and walking away without wanting all his money back. He’ll know exactly how to salvage Salford and give them the best immediate future their current predicament can. Don’t expect it to be easy to stomach though Salford fans because it won’t be. 

[iffleyox]

4 hours ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

Exactly. For Wakefield, without Michael Carter there would be no Matt Ellis. He deserves credit for keeping us solvent, keeping us in SL until the stadium rebuild was a goer and walking away without wanting all his money back. He’ll know exactly how to salvage Salford and give them the best immediate future their current predicament can. Don’t expect it to be easy to stomach though Salford fans because it won’t be. 

This. He’s not a miracle worker and he’s not God’s gift. He’s a very shrewd accountant who has a track record of taking brutal decisions that keep the ship afloat. Unfortunately that sort of no frills solvency is likely very much what’s needed. 
 

Tough medicine yes, but at this point I’d recommend swallowing it.

[Charlie]

If only Salford copied Wakefield and cas and refused to leave the willows. Wonder how things would be, stadiums definitely needed upgrades but wakey jave shown it can be done 

[Tommygilf]

The obvious risk here is that Salford will now not be able to get the players they have been on the contracts they have given out, which will result in declining on field performances - which could impact their IMG score.

They are already in a vulnerable position on that front and Carter can't work miracles with the finances.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

If only Salford copied Wakefield and cas and refused to leave the willows. Wonder how things would be, stadiums definitely needed upgrades but wakey jave shown it can be done 

Yes, a reduction of central income and a very real threat to be booted out of the competition would been a blessing to Salford no doubt. 

I love it when people rewrite history to suit an agenda.

[Agbrigg]

11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Very much has the vibe of administration before the administrators come in

I think in a way they are.

Lets not forget the Carter years, Wakey hanging on by the narrowist of margins to retain SL status, year after year. No positives around only negativity and doom and gloom. I expect Salford to now get plenty of that. Howver the difference is that at least Wakey had their own stadium albeit run down. This gave them income streams that Salford dont have. They also have a slightly bigger fan base to rely on although that was really stretched in the end. Finally they are in a stronger area for RL and always managed to find a few gems to help the team side of things. 

If Carter is given full control I can only see a future for Salford in the lower leagues. Many will say that is their true level, which is fair enough. However I fear this season they will just end up whipping boys and finish bottom. Tolouse need to do a Ellis style Wakey and make serious preparations to get in SL next season

[Charlie]

28 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Yes, a reduction of central income and a very real threat to be booted out of the competition would been a blessing to Salford no doubt. 

I love it when people rewrite history to suit an agenda.

You wasn’t booted out though was you 

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

1 hour ago, Charlie said:

If only Salford copied Wakefield and cas and refused to leave the willows. Wonder how things would be, stadiums definitely needed upgrades but wakey jave shown it can be done 

But Wilkinson had to sell off the ground to pay historical debts didn't he?  Staying was not an option and the new ground was a timely lifeline.

THE WILLOWS SALFORD REDS GROUND GETS £2.75MILLION PUBLIC MONEY FOR REDEVELOPMENT - Salford Star - with attitude & love xxx

[Worzel]

20 minutes ago, Wollo Wollo Wayoo said:

But Wilkinson had to sell off the ground to pay historical debts didn't he?  Staying was not an option and the new ground was a timely lifeline.

THE WILLOWS SALFORD REDS GROUND GETS £2.75MILLION PUBLIC MONEY FOR REDEVELOPMENT - Salford Star - with attitude & love xxx

Precisely this. The idea that staying at The Willows was ever an option is for the birds. The club didn't own it, and the asset was in negative equity for the people who actually did. Without the new ground, the club would have had nowhere to play and presumably have become at best a migratory club around other Manchester grounds, and at worst as dead as a dodo.

[whatmichaelsays]

11 hours ago, dboy said:

If Carter can't straighten them, then there is no future for them.

He knows income, he knows outgoings.

He knows numbers.

He doesn't know growth. 

[LeytherRob]

1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said:

He doesn't know growth. 

He’s there to get Salford on an even keel and not in a position to be needing half a million quid to survive a few months, not to build the business. That’s up to Paul King et al to do in a hopefully responsible manner this time, but only once the club has been deemed safe to operate under its own financial decisions.

[bar red]

Off topic a little. I was in Salford on a Sunday last year. Fancied going to watch a game. Tried to find out  how to get there. A nightmare for parking, no info on bus routes or train. The locals didn't have a clue..  They certainly don't make it easy. Watched on TV, they got beat.

[binosh]

Does anyone know or have a ball park figure on how much this much lauded stadium deal will generate in incremental income for Salford? It seems to be the Holy Grail of survival for them.

[LeytherRob]

1 minute ago, binosh said:

Does anyone know or have a ball park figure on how much this much lauded stadium deal will generate in incremental income for Salford? It seems to be the Holy Grail of survival for them.

SRD have repeatedly floated that the cut they'll get of food and drink at the stadium will be worth £150k per year, there's also the advertising billboard but they haven't mentioned a figure on that yet, but the billboard has been paid for using a finance agreement which is visible on companies house and it will take time before it even pays itself off. There's also the very murky questions about how much rent(if any) SRD have actually been paying since the move to the AJ Bell.

Outside of that it's vague statements on the stadium deal holding up club sponsorship deals but I don't really see any reason why getting an improved rental agreement should be a dealbreaker on sponsors, unless the sponsors don't have confidence of SRD surviving without it.

As i mentioned earlier on the thread though, there have been a minimum of £1.2M of additional funding in the past 2 years that is non repeatable through player sales, council loans and grants and the share scheme just to be where they are currently, not to mention they've just taken on an elite academy license which according to figures banded around sets the average club back £200k per year. You don't have to be maths wizard to see SRD are needing a minimum additional 700k per season just to be close to keeping their heads above water. I don't see how they bridge that shortfall without serious cutbacks within the club, a significant increase in the Sky deal or a wealthy benefactor coming in to underwrite the playoff ambitions the club have.

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, LeytherRob said:

He’s there to get Salford on an even keel and not in a position to be needing half a million quid to survive a few months, not to build the business. That’s up to Paul King et al to do in a hopefully responsible manner this time, but only once the club has been deemed safe to operate under its own financial decisions.

Seriously, how much excess can there realistically be in Salford's cost base? 

It strikes me with Salford is that the bigger issue is that the top-line number simply isn't big enough and Carter is not the sort of character you even want in the building, let alone having a degree of influence, if that's what you want or need to fix. They're having cashflow issues at a time of year where clubs should be at their peak trading volume for ticketing and retail revenue.

Edited December 4, 2024 by whatmichaelsays

[Archie Gordon]

3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

The obvious risk here is that Salford will now not be able to get the players they have been on the contracts they have given out, which will result in declining on field performances - which could impact their IMG score.

They are already in a vulnerable position on that front and Carter can't work miracles with the finances.

Yes. With or without special measures, Salford are still operating in a ######-or-bust system. The SL/Champ central funding cliff edge remains a poor design IMO, incentivising this short-termism.

[LeytherRob]

20 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Seriously, how much excess can there realistically be in Salford's cost base? 

It strikes me with Salford is that the bigger issue is that the top-line number simply isn't big enough and Carter is not the sort of character you even want in the building, let alone having a degree of influence, if that's what you want or need to fix. They're having cashflow issues at a time of year where clubs should be at their peak trading volume for ticketing and retail revenue.

Unfortunately for SRD, the excess is going to be in the playing group. They've assembled a squad to chase playoffs and potentially to dream of a final, but they just can't afford it. What they can afford is more akin to how Castleford started last season.

[whatmichaelsays]

9 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Unfortunately for SRD, the excess is going to be in the playing group. They've assembled a squad to chase playoffs and potentially to dream of a final, but they just can't afford it. What they can afford is more akin to how Castleford started last season.

A lot of that spending is contractually committed so unless the plan is to offer players out to other clubs (many of whom have their rosters set), then there is limited scope to reduce costs on that front, at least until the end of the season. 

Again, I still believe that the real issue for Salford is the lack of growth, rather than the underlying cost base, which must be one of the smallest in the league. Bringing someone in to "manage the decline" doesn't feel like the right appointment to me. I have respect for Carter's skillset, I just don't think it's the skillset the club needs.

[Tommygilf]

52 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Seriously, how much excess can there realistically be in Salford's cost base? 

It strikes me with Salford is that the bigger issue is that the top-line number simply isn't big enough and Carter is not the sort of character you even want in the building, let alone having a degree of influence, if that's what you want or need to fix. They're having cashflow issues at a time of year where clubs should be at their peak trading volume for ticketing and retail revenue.

Whilst I can see your point, Salford were given that opportunity with special measures last year and have had 6 figure investments from the council since then too. 

RL Commercial and the clubs aren't doing this because they are being positive about Salford growing (I think we can assume this is a RLC approved appointment). They want someone to come in to make sure the club doesn't spend far too much more than it can, and that it doesn't come back to SL or anyone else cap in hand for £500k again. 

Edited December 4, 2024 by Tommygilf

[LeytherRob]

10 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

A lot of that spending is contractually committed so unless the plan is to offer players out to other clubs (many of whom have their rosters set), then there is limited scope to reduce costs on that front, at least until the end of the season. 

Again, I still believe that the real issue for Salford is the lack of growth, rather than the underlying cost base, which must be one of the smallest in the league. Bringing someone in to "manage the decline" doesn't feel like the right appointment to me. I have respect for Carter's skillset, I just don't think it's the skillset the club needs.

1- that's exactly what it will be if cost reductions are needed

2- the real issue is irrelevant as far as this exercise as much as it would be under an official administration period. Growth is an issue for Paul King and the SRD management to work on before and after this period of financial oversight. SRD wanted 40% of its yearly distribution closer to the end of the previous season than the start of the current one and that represents a huge risk to the wider division. Carter and the other 2 people have 1 remit and 1 remit only, to ensure SRD can make it to the end of the 2025 season without any further handouts because if they don't it puts the very monies that have been advanced at risk for everyone.

 

[Toby Chopra]

2 hours ago, Worzel said:

Precisely this. The idea that staying at The Willows was ever an option is for the birds. The club didn't own it, and the asset was in negative equity for the people who actually did. Without the new ground, the club would have had nowhere to play and presumably have become at best a migratory club around other Manchester grounds, and at worst as dead as a dodo.

Plus, whatever one thinks of Marwan's decision making, he did inject some cash cash/cover debts into Salford in his time there which strung things out longer. I very much doubt he would have come on board if they were still at the Willows.

If they had stayed, I think the end would have come a lot sooner.