New Super League Board structure

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

It appears to me that he is exchanging a part time Chairman role for a full time CEO role probably for more money and certainly more control and influence.

I see it as maybe like Jihn Kear taking a head coach role instead of his director of rugby role or whatever his title is.

I would pretty much always see CEO as a more fulfilling role than Chairman.

 

If that’s what you think, then fair enough.

Seems pretty clear that colliers role was subservient.  Whether it’s fulfilling or not depends on the individual, but Collier indicated that his role was time demanding and he wasn’t getting any younger.  If Wood gets the job, we’ll see what effort he puts into the role.  Maybe Wood thinks it’s easy.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

If that’s what you think, then fair enough.

Seems pretty clear that colliers role was subservient.  Whether it’s fulfilling or not depends on the individual, but Collier indicated that his role was time demanding and he wasn’t getting any younger.  If Wood gets the job, we’ll see what effort he puts into the role.  Maybe Wood thinks it’s easy.

I'm not really sure of the point you are making. 

Why do you think Collier's role was subservient? Because he didn;t deliver anything?

[DoubleD]

5 hours ago, EastLondonMike said:

Have heard a few people say Rimmer isn't interested in a overall leadership role. Purely hearsay though.

You would have thought any real change would mean the current usual suspects not featuring at all. Which would include Rimmer.

Whats Maurice doing these days?..

I sincerely hope Rimmer is nowhere in contention for any top role, he’d be worse than Wood who i’d describe as a competent administrator and weak leader. I won’t divulge my thoughts on Rimmer other than that they are less complimentary. They could do with showing him the door 

[The Parksider]

11 hours ago, RayCee said:

So I am presuming from this that the decisions about running SL goes from the SL clubs having a strong say to pretty much the whole say as to what happens. If so, I wonder about hard decisions not being made in future. The risk of it becoming a ‘club’ that becomes more inward looking rather than expansionist. What benefits the greater game may be ignored in favour of what benefits the members. 

Give it a rest Ray. Superleague is the only successful pro-competition in the Northern Hemisphere and contains all the successful professional clubs who develop all the quality RL players this side of the equator.

Derek Beaumonts interview saw him say that “when you are a director of a company (Superleague Europe) you have to act in it’s best interests, but you also have to look at what is best for the game” Give some credit where it’s due Ray. Beaumont says that he has “No problem with Toronto but I don’t agree with having a team in Canada in Superleague at the expense of a heartland club” He goes on to say “I agree with expanding the sport and making it more global. But by expanding it not by replacing (one club with another).

The crux of the matter is this. You and a small band of people on here believe that Toronto are “expanding” the sport by putting a team of ex-Leigh players into Toronto. That is only geographical expansion that merely gives the Superleague clubs a massive travel headache. You and the others also believe that Toronto are “expanding the sport” because Argyle is rich. But he is salary capped Ray. His riches will only do him any good if he spends them on expanding the playing of the sport in Canada so we have more players to stock the clubs and make Canada a viable international side..

Beaumont wants to see the game expand, not the travel distances. He wants to see more people playing the game, so the player pool can grow and spawn more quality players that can THEN stock a 13^th. or a 14^th. Superleague club. Come on Ray…..

Mr Bishop in your post you talk about the clubs “closing ranks”. Not a bit of it Mr. B...... Perez has to get back to growing the game in Canada by expanding the player base and if he does that he can get an SL place. But he is not doing that, no doubt because Argyle just wants to buy his way into SL.

You ask “Without Toronto where do 14 teams come from? Leigh and Bradford? Under what criteria if Toulouse and Toronto finish highest? You forget that Toronto and Toulouse like Les Catalans are guest clubs and have no automatic right to entry into SL. Bottom line is this - without Superleague’s albeit modest success the likes of France and North America would have no chance at all of having a Rugby League game, so please give it a rest and show some respect to Superleague and those who run and financially support it.

[RayCee]

38 minutes ago, The Parksider said:

Give it a rest Ray....

You and a small band of people on here believe that Toronto....

I think many people on this forum think it is someone else that needs to give it a rest. I'm not sure those thinking Toronto can do some good for the game are a small band either. You're in the minority Parky and I'm relieved that is the case.

[League Jihadi]

Worrying that Grant or Woods would be anywhere near the RLIF. 

[Wolford6]

The UK divisional structure is a bit moribund. Thank goodness that the RFL, Superleague and Sky realise this and are going to do something about it.

I'd like to see Tony Smith somewhere in the admin system.

[Lowdesert]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not really sure of the point you are making. 

Why do you think Collier's role was subservient? Because he didn;t deliver anything?

Woods role now for RLIF he and the board will be dictating what DC does.  He’s applying for DCs job, so will be tasked rather than dictating.  DC intimated the job is long hours and hard work. I don’t think Wood is up to that.

[Lowdesert]

11 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Im not sure that there is any subservience between the Chairman and CEO of the RLIF. It seems pretty obvious to me that neither is subservient to the other, they have different jobs.

The Chairman runs the board, the board appoints the CEO and gives him the objectives and overall strategy, the CEO Implements it. 

Its not an issue of subservience between the Chairman and CEO, the issue is the RLIF's subservience to the NRL.

It seems to me that over the past year or two Wood has seen his authority in the UK somewhat damaged, and a lot of his power usurped by Draper. The Clubs obviously werent happy with him and with another restructure on his way he obviously wasnt the best person to see that through. This opportunity to be the day-to-day top dog at the RLIF comes up, on a similar wage starts looking very attractive. 

I’m not sure there isn’t either having no insight into how the RLIF work.  What is the salary for Wood now, compared to DCs salary for the RLIF?

If true that the SL Clubs were not happy with, what evidence do the RLIF board have to suggest they, the RLIF, would be happy with him representing the international game?  DC comes across to me as a very diplomatic, engaging bloke, Wood isn’t that.

[Dave T]

34 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Woods role now for RLIF he and the board will be dictating what DC does.  He’s applying for DCs job, so will be tasked rather than dictating.  DC intimated the job is long hours and hard work. I don’t think Wood is up to that.

maybe not, but I suspect he already works long hours with the RFL/SL roles he fills now. This may be a nice change of pace tbh.

[Dave T]

27 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

I’m not sure there isn’t either having no insight into how the RLIF work.  What is the salary for Wood now, compared to DCs salary for the RLIF?

If true that the SL Clubs were not happy with, what evidence do the RLIF board have to suggest they, the RLIF, would be happy with him representing the international game?  DC comes across to me as a very diplomatic, engaging bloke, Wood isn’t that.

We should remember that the SL role he is leaving is a merged role, he has been an SL Director for 21 years and with the RFL for well over a decade, with around 10 years in the top role - his CV reads well for the RLIF.

The interviewers also will know Wood and will have worked with him directly at the RLIF and through the RFL.

We'll see what they decide.

[DoubleD]

11 minutes ago, Dave T said:

maybe not, but I suspect he already works long hours with the RFL/SL roles he fills now. This may be a nice change of pace tbh.

Quite, I’d imagine he works extremely long hours in a generally thankless job, which contains multiple roles. He is an internationalist and therefore I am more happy with him in the role than some others. He’s also probably better suited to it than his role in RFL 

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Quite, I’d imagine he works extremely long hours in a generally thankless job, which contains multiple roles. He is an internationalist and therefore I am more happy with him in the role than some others. He’s also probably better suited to it than his role in RFL 

My main concern with Wood is that he is very prudent. On one hand that should always be welcomed, but I do think it holds him back from making huge impacts as he is often counting the pennies.

That said, he was Chairman when the long term RLIF strategy was signed off, and he was Tournament Director for the RLWC 2013 tournament which was bold. He has also been RFL CEO during the proposal stage for the most ambitious World Cup ever in 2021, so I'm not as concerned as others.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

maybe not, but I suspect he already works long hours with the RFL/SL roles he fills now. This may be a nice change of pace tbh.

As I’ve said before, I don’t think he’s done a bad job for the RFL, but feel it’s time for a new face and new impetus.

For the RLIF role, I dont know what pace he would go at neither does anyone else.  

Personally, I don’t think he’s right for the Collier job. It will be a stand alone position where he’s solely responsible for gaining the GAISF accreditation, improving income streams through developing the game etc among others.  If he was already good at that, I would have expected, with his help, Collier would have had more success.  

Imo the RLIF role would be ideal for Shane Richardson.

[John WP Fan]

6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

The crux of the matter is this. You and a small band of people on here believe that Toronto are “expanding” the sport by putting a team of ex-Leigh players into Toronto. That is only geographical expansion that merely gives the Superleague clubs a massive travel headache. You and the others also believe that Toronto are “expanding the sport” because Argyle is rich. But he is salary capped Ray. His riches will only do him any good if he spends them on expanding the playing of the sport in Canada so we have more players to stock the clubs and make Canada a viable international side..

...

Perez has to get back to growing the game in Canada by expanding the player base and if he does that he can get an SL place. 

A lot of energy in this forum goes into arguing that I think is hiding some common ground. Most of us who support Toronto actually agree with you that it's important to grow the game in Canada. We may differ on the time frame for that. Anyone who thinks Toronto can add a new Canadian player every year is dreaming; it will take many years to develop substantial numbers of players who can step into Super League, though in the short term we can probably convert some Union or gridiron players who can contribute.

Toronto is expanding the game by introducing it to a huge new audience. It will take time for that audience to pay attention, and for kids to start playing the game as a result. I agree the Wolfpack need to start investing in local RL teams, but the sport will grow here from the top down more than bottom up, and that will take many years. In the meantime I do believe we will inject a lot of money into the sport, and create more opportunities for players in the UK and Australia.

I think the Phoenix Coyotes of the NHL are an apt example. Many fans from the hockey heartland were outraged when the Winnipeg Jets moved there, and mocked Phoenix as a terrible place for a hockey team. And in fact that team has struggled financially, so they are not an example of business success. But because they were there, a young Phoenix boy named Auston Matthews developed a love of hockey and, over many years, amazing skill, and he is now one of the top players in the league.

 

[Bob8]

1 hour ago, John WP Fan said:

A lot of energy in this forum goes into arguing that I think is hiding some common ground. Most of us who support Toronto actually agree with you that it's important to grow the game in Canada. We may differ on the time frame for that. Anyone who thinks Toronto can add a new Canadian player every year is dreaming; it will take many years to develop substantial numbers of players who can step into Super League, though in the short term we can probably convert some Union or gridiron players who can contribute.

Toronto is expanding the game by introducing it to a huge new audience. It will take time for that audience to pay attention, and for kids to start playing the game as a result. I agree the Wolfpack need to start investing in local RL teams, but the sport will grow here from the top down more than bottom up, and that will take many years. In the meantime I do believe we will inject a lot of money into the sport, and create more opportunities for players in the UK and Australia.

I think the Phoenix Coyotes of the NHL are an apt example. Many fans from the hockey heartland were outraged when the Winnipeg Jets moved there, and mocked Phoenix as a terrible place for a hockey team. And in fact that team has struggled financially, so they are not an example of business success. But because they were there, a young Phoenix boy named Auston Matthews developed a love of hockey and, over many years, amazing skill, and he is now one of the top players in the league.

I think you are being generous to the poster in assuming that he is merely being dim.

It is notable that a well noted disadvantage of TWP getting into SL is that it keeps another team out.  That is considered bad, as rugby league in that town e.g. Widnes would benefit from having a SL team.  Yes, at the same time, a couple of people agree with this and also assert that having a pro team in Toronto will do nothing to grow the game in Toronto.  

Were this to be a genuine argument, is would be stupid and easily refuted.  That it has been refuted and is still repeated shows that it is insincere.

[damp squib]

5 hours ago, Bob8 said:

I think you are being generous to the poster in assuming that he is merely being dim.

It is notable that a well noted disadvantage of TWP getting into SL is that it keeps another team out.  That is considered bad, as rugby league in that town e.g. Widnes would benefit from having a SL team.  Yes, at the same time, a couple of people agree with this and also assert that having a pro team in Toronto will do nothing to grow the game in Toronto.  

Were this to be a genuine argument, is would be stupid and easily refuted.  That it has been refuted and is still repeated shows that it is insincere.

It's especially insincere since pre-Toronto Parky literally spent years arguing against the idea of "organic growth" and insisting that having a SL team in an area was the only way to grow the game.

[DoubleD]

9 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

As I’ve said before, I don’t think he’s done a bad job for the RFL, but feel it’s time for a new face and new impetus.

For the RLIF role, I dont know what pace he would go at neither does anyone else.  

Personally, I don’t think he’s right for the Collier job. It will be a stand alone position where he’s solely responsible for gaining the GAISF accreditation, improving income streams through developing the game etc among others.  If he was already good at that, I would have expected, with his help, Collier would have had more success.  

Imo the RLIF role would be ideal for Shane Richardson.

Shane Richardson would be a good candidate to be fair 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, DoubleD said:

Shane Richardson would be a good candidate to be fair 

He’s a very genuine man with the game at heart.

The more I think of it, the more I think that a Grant/Wood combination would be far stronger than Collier/Wood/Board.  Grants proved he isn’t afraid to stand up the the NRL.  But maybe that’s just wishful thinking.

[Captain Survival]

Let me ask, would Brian Noble not be someone that should be considered?  I think from his cv he has had almost every role imaginable, he is tough as nails but still extremely personable and collegial, and he has to my best knowledge almost universal respect in the RL community.  And his very move to Toronto shows he is prepared to make bold decisions.

 

[The Parksider]

20 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

A lot of energy in this forum goes into arguing that I think is hiding some common ground. Most of us who support Toronto actually agree with you that it's important to grow the game in Canada. Toronto is expanding the game by introducing it to a huge new audience. It will take time for that audience to pay attention, and for kids to start playing the game as a result. I agree the Wolfpack need to start investing in local RL teams, but the sport will grow here from the top down more than bottom up, and that will take many years. In the meantime I do believe we will inject a lot of money into the sport, and create more opportunities for players in the UK and Australia.

You expand the game by having more clubs and players at all levels. This is something nobody wants to understand as it ruins their fantasy Rugby League threads.

You do not expand the playing of the game itself by having more spectators watching. The game needs more players and this is irrefutable because that is what those who own and run the game say. You only want to focus on spectators because it suits the Toronto argument - "Look we have 8K fans". What good is that to Superleague clubs 3,000 miles away??

How can kids play the game - there is no junior RL infrastructure in Toronto, and those who want to play Rugby play Union?. The kids cannot play without the infrastructure that has been proven here when we wanted to get kids playing in Coventry. They came to the International RL then as one astute posted said "went home to their Union clubs".

19 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Were this to be a genuine argument, is would be stupid and easily refuted.  That it has been refuted and is still repeated shows that it is insincere.

Bob you need to stop believing that when you step in and refute an argument your wisdom is absolute and your answer is naturally correct. For a year now you argue that if a club is in a great venue/place, has money and strong management those are the three pillars for the growth of a club. You never ever acknowledge that a club needs to have access to quality players, the game needs to be played to a good level and in good numbers locally. Harlequins at one point had all you believe an SL club needs to "grow" but they collapsed and as Brian McDermott said they did not have the access to quality players, whether home produced or players who wanted to go to London. Forgive me if I rate McDermott as being a lot smarter than you.

You refuse to debate me because you know i have this right.

14 hours ago, damp squib said:

It's especially insincere since pre-Toronto Parky literally spent years arguing against the idea of "organic growth" and insisting that having a SL team in an area was the only way to grow the game.

You need to explain your own arguments Mr. Squib. I certainly did say that tiny "bottom up" clubs never got the local game growing, but that Superleague clubs did make some strides to grow the playing of the game. Gateshead had some success  but only lasted a year, as Newcastle they have some growth in the game but STILL don't produce SL players a whole 17 years on, and London Broncos did get player growth too (but as above not enough for McDermott and his SL side). Celtic Crusaders had a big success producing Welsh players at all levels for a short time, yet everyone condemns them. Argyles best bet for an SL place is in south wales not thousands of miles away where they don't play the game.

But as time progresses fact, figures and events allow the debate to change and what is alarming is the Mascord quote that in the last 10 years we have seen the game SHRINK with player levels dropping like a stone. Read this from this morning.....

Over the last decade, player participation levels (in England)  have fallen from 131,900 to 44,000, The only thing shoring up the player supply is 12 SL clubs in England/France running Foundations and Academies that underpin the local game in Yorkshire Lancashire and south west France. To allow clubs from thousands of miles away to start raiding such a fragile playing pool, and replace English SL clubs who develop players just because they have money is ludicrous. A debate nobody wants to engage in, and avoids doing so with Crystal ball gazing.

Drop the jam tomorrow fantasies gentlemen, face the facts. If North America drags our player base over there because they "get the crowds" you kill the player supply here. As Lenegan says no away fans means Toronto offer nothing to SL, and all these big crowds (who we are yet to really see) do is subsidise the owners big losses. They do not grow the game - but no doubt someone will be along soon to tell us different.......

........And the myth that 8K fans in Toronto is just what Superleague needs will go on and on..........

[Dave T]

"."You do not expand the game by having more spectators watching"

What a classic line from Parky.

Maybe, just maybe the new people who watch might fancy giving it a go at some stage.

So we could have teams in NY, Toronto, Toulouse, Dublin with 10k watching each week but the game wouldnt have expanded?

Odd.

[Mattrhino]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

"."You do not expand the game by having more spectators watching"

What a classic line from Parky.

Maybe, just maybe the new people who watch might fancy giving it a go at some stage.

So we could have teams in NY, Toronto, Toulouse, Dublin with 10k watching each week but the game wouldnt have expanded?

Odd.

Yeah but if it doesn't happen within 6 months it is a complete disaster and farce. Catalans have been in SL for a decade. France should have won the WC by now. They don't bring any fans! let's swap them for Dewsbury.

[RP London]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

 

Bob you need to stop believing that when you step in and refute an argument your wisdom is absolute and your answer is naturally correct.

errr Pot and Kettle springs to mind.... 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

"."You do not expand the game by having more spectators watching"

What a classic line from Parky.

Maybe, just maybe the new people who watch might fancy giving it a go at some stage.

So we could have teams in NY, Toronto, Toulouse, Dublin with 10k watching each week but the game wouldnt have expanded?

Odd.

Fully totally agree with that Dave the more watching is expanding the game and to a new audience, you highlight "You do not expand the game by having more spectators watching" that part of Mr Parksiders arguement very well........................... now he also says

"If North America drags our player base over there because they "get the crowds" you kill the player supply here" 

Whoever those clubs be who are going to be reliant for a very long time on imports it will totally impact on our game over here, FWIW, I believe that TWP will be successful in obtaining a place in SL whenever that may occur, but I also think that Mr Parksider makes a very reasonable argument in respect of the concensus of feeling that will be rising out of the SL management that charity begins at home first and foremost and they will be protective of their own before allowing mass integration with a number of new teams, in my opinion, TWP are here and they are doing well, but for me any further teams coming into the game from virgin territories need to show a massive commitment even deposits submitted that can be spent on infrastructures to grow the game.