Leigh to ignore Salary Cap

[Barnaby Reddin]

But if he proves that his reasoning has had some justification I hope that all you detractors will observe that he has been justified in his argument.

 

 

I am at a loss as to how many times I have to repeat myself. Whether he is justified in his "reasoning" or his "argument" is not the point of THIS thread. THIS thread was about his initial "dummy spit" when it became clear that Leigh weren't going up.

 

His initial response on or around the 17th of September was "We will get back into SL and I'll ignore the cap to do it".........I fail to see why you can't accept that this statement in the context it was made was wrong!

 

I have repeatedly said he may or may not have a case in regards to the cap restrictions, but his method of raising the issue was wrong.....it was childish, the reaction of an upset fan!

[LeeF]

Jeez, all this Leigh bashing and ignoring the actual point.

 

The championship clubs got stuck with this bent system, they weren't given choices.

They voted for it as evidenced above in this thread so they did have a choice

Leigh voted yes

[bobbruce]

I dont believe Beaumont would hide anything from the rfl,he might choose to not tell people on forums such as this one but that doesnt matter does it

Then he wouldn't be breaking the cap.

[sweaty craiq]

Then he wouldn't be breaking the cap.

 

Exactly, he cant break the cap - contracts are lodged with the RFL and accounts monitored frequently. Mrs Hansen has promised to get to 8 wpm come the season opener, well worth the £100k pa and Mrs Chase will be a world beater in our PR department.

[The Parksider]

My last call on this subject is if Beaumont is not successfull in his quest I will bow down to all the scribes who have delivered his death knell in his quest for equality. But if he proves that his reasoning has had some justification I hope that all you detractors will observe that he has been justified in his argument.

 

Oh dear! Given up?

 

The "uneven cap" was Martyn Sadler's argument before a ball was kicked, an argument that many  on here carried on in various discussions about the qualifiers.

 

As for proving "his" reasoning, firstly it's the same reasoning many have on the issue, not just his. Do you think that's only proved if the RFL/SL clubs agree with him and many others and climb down.

 

It's most likely in private most chairmen and administrators will well understand it's a bent and unfair competition and an unfair restriction, in public they will take a tactical stance to suit their own agendas.

 

Like most disputes like this the complainant makes his complaint and others may make a reply. To date nobody has made any reply to his point, all we've heard is it "the rules" or "Evil Leigh deserve it." Not a single coherent counter argument has come out as to why it's fair he's capped £800K short of the clubs he's asked to compete with to provide "interest" below the real competition.

[sweaty craiq]

Should the Champ clubs decide the gamble of running FT to reach their goal of SL is too great they could simply accept the 30 pieces and remain PT, making the mid 8's a non event whilst owners recover previous investment - is this the RFL goal?

[chuffer]

 surely Leigh wouldnt be the only club doing this?

 

It won't be "Leigh" the "club" doing it though, that's the point. It's about employing players at a separate company that is also owned/affiliated with the club's owners. Leigh or whoever else (Salford) can't be punished for it. Whether or not the RFL would (or even could) take the club owners to task for not operating in the "spirit of the rules" is another matter

[GaryO]

Oh dear! Given up?

 

The "uneven cap" was Martyn Sadler's argument before a ball was kicked, an argument that many  on here carried on in various discussions about the qualifiers.

 

As for proving "his" reasoning, firstly it's the same reasoning many have on the issue, not just his. Do you think that's only proved if the RFL/SL clubs agree with him and many others and climb down.

 

It's most likely in private most chairmen and administrators will well understand it's a bent and unfair competition and an unfair restriction, in public they will take a tactical stance to suit their own agendas.

 

Like most disputes like this the complainant makes his complaint and others may make a reply. To date nobody has made any reply to his point, all we've heard is it "the rules" or "Evil Leigh deserve it." Not a single coherent counter argument has come out as to why it's fair he's capped £800K short of the clubs he's asked to compete with to provide "interest" below the real competition.

It's exactly as you say Parky, no one will give a reason as to why:-

The Champ clubs should not have an increased cap, and

Why the system should stay as it is, being totally weighted in favour of the SL clubs

I have conceeded on numerous occasions that Mr Beaumont could have been more diplomatic in his delivery of the matter, but now it is in the open I agree with him and stated my case why, still awaiting someone to say why the questions I asked should not happen.

The RFL will have to give him an answer to those questions, they cannot say " Those are the rules" can they?

[Derwent]

It's exactly as you say Parky, no one will give a reason as to why:-

The Champ clubs should not have an increased cap, and

Why the system should stay as it is, being totally weighted in favour of the SL clubs

I have conceeded on numerous occasions that Mr Beaumont could have been more diplomatic in his delivery of the matter, but now it is in the open I agree with him and stated my case why, still awaiting someone to say why the questions I asked should not happen.

The RFL will have to give him an answer to those questions, they cannot say " Those are the rules" can they?

 

The most obvious reason is that the season does not just constitute the middle 8 qualifiers.

 

For the bulk of the season Leigh are playing teams like Workington, Whitehaven, Batley, Oldham and are already at a great advantage over those teams to begin with due to things like the funding allocations. How fair would it be on the part time teams in the Championship for them to have to face a SL squad in all but name ? As it is they are streets ahead of 90% of the Championship clubs, what would be the point of them racking up 70 or 80 points every week against the rest of the league ? In fact, I'd suggest that would be detrimental to Leigh in the long run as fans get bored with non-competitive games.

 

The RFL has a duty of care to the whole game, not just those clubs who qualify for the middle 8 competition. The problem they have is how do they make the middle 8 more competitive without making the Championship a foregone conclusion ? Any suggestions ?

[sweaty craiq]

The most obvious reason is that the season does not just constitute the middle 8 qualifiers.

 

For the bulk of the season Leigh are playing teams like Workington, Whitehaven, Batley, Oldham and are already at a great advantage over those teams to begin with due to things like the funding allocations. How fair would it be on the part time teams in the Championship for them to have to face a SL squad in all but name ? As it is they are streets ahead of 90% of the Championship clubs, what would be the point of them racking up 70 or 80 points every week against the rest of the league ? In fact, I'd suggest that would be detrimental to Leigh in the long run as fans get bored with non-competitive games.

 

The RFL has a duty of care to the whole game, not just those clubs who qualify for the middle 8 competition. The problem they have is how do they make the middle 8 more competitive without making the Championship a foregone conclusion ? Any suggestions ?

 

Get them tight arrissed Cumbrians to turn up and pay to watch RL

[Manx RL]

Free market Economy is needed immediately, Communism does not work. The cream must rise and ambition must have no boundaries, RL will always be seen as the poor mans sport as long as we ignore that In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment

Congratulations to Wakefield in their success at adapting to the environment at the expense of their rivals.

[GaryO]

The most obvious reason is that the season does not just constitute the middle 8 qualifiers.

For the bulk of the season Leigh are playing teams like Workington, Whitehaven, Batley, Oldham and are already at a great advantage over those teams to begin with due to things like the funding allocations. How fair would it be on the part time teams in the Championship for them to have to face a SL squad in all but name ? As it is they are streets ahead of 90% of the Championship clubs, what would be the point of them racking up 70 or 80 points every week against the rest of the league ? In fact, I'd suggest that would be detrimental to Leigh in the long run as fans get bored with non-competitive games.

The RFL has a duty of care to the whole game, not just those clubs who qualify for the middle 8 competition. The problem they have is how do they make the middle 8 more competitive without making the Championship a foregone conclusion ? Any suggestions ?

Firstly thank you Derwent for a sensible post.

Yes I totally agree with you re non-competitive games, in fact for the first time in a long time I am coñsidering not purchasing a season ticket, there were many games last season that were foregone conclusions and that will not change this coming season.

But, and it is a big but, the regular season - 23 games - is in all intense and purpose under this system a qualifier for the qualifiers it really does not matter were a team finishes as long as it is in positions 1 - 4, and therein lurks another problem, if one team is running away with the league would the teams vying for 3rd and 4th spots play their best possible team against the leaders or save players for games against their contemporaries, the same will happen with the teams trying to avoid relegation.

The ultimate though should still be ambition and gaining promotion, this is a semi and full professional game and this is what the players play for.

What can the league do to make the Championship more competitive, I don't know, as i see it there will be 2 divisions within the Championship. We will have 4 full time teams next season and two more who I think will be challenging for those 4 top spots, whilst and no disrepect to the other 6 clubs but I do not see them being strong enough to break into the top bracket, they will be doing their utmost to avoid the relegation spots.

And if Leigh were not in the equation I would still expect it follow the same path. So again, what is the answer, level out the funding? We would still have the same teams at the top just as we have in the SL 4 winners in 18 Grand Finals and only two other clubs making 3 of those finals.

[The Parksider]

The most obvious reason is that the season does not just constitute the middle 8 qualifiers.

 

For the bulk of the season Leigh are playing teams like Workington, Whitehaven, Batley, Oldham and are already at a great advantage over those teams to begin with due to things like the funding allocations. How fair would it be on the part time teams in the Championship for them to have to face a SL squad in all but name ? 

 

The RFL has a duty of care to the whole game, not just those clubs who qualify for the middle 8 competition. The problem they have is how do they make the middle 8 more competitive without making the Championship a foregone conclusion ? Any suggestions ?

 

I agree entirely with your analysis and the problem it brings.

 

But the question you pose "how do they make the the middle 8 competitive" is posed as though the only solution to the problem is some sort of genius idea to level up the middle eights without affecting the main competitions above or below it, i.e. Superleague or the Championship?

 

The solution to the overall problem rather than the narrower problem you pose, would have been to bring back P & R on a two yearly cycle.The problem is actually achieving P & R in a sustainable way and not how do we make the middle 8's work.

 

Again there were two factions at work, one wanted the 3x8 which was immediately condemned by Mr. Sadler as having a massive funding problem, and can now be condemned as not working.

 

The instigators of this nonsense RFL/Barwick/Solly/Hetherington etc apparently rushed for an early TV agreement and put this idea up for acceptance as part of that agreement and waved the contract under the nose of everyone pushing them to sign.

 

Clubs rebelled and complained and offered the P & R every two seasons but had to back off under the pressure of the SKY contract being ready to sign. Koukash didn't back off though......

 

So the solution to the real problem was not to have put this in in the first place,  the solution is to find a way out of it, the solution is to say goodbye to those who put in this system despite knowing as Sadler pointed out it wasn't a good idea it was a bad idea copied off Swiss Football.

 

Beaumont suggests changes are needed and everyone jumps on him. The RFL who have created this muck up with Solly having to withdraw from the idea it has grown fan numbers, but apparently grown "interest", and Solly again talking of tweaking things to make it work but being unable to find the solution you ask for are the ones who should be jumped on..... 

 

Had the real "solution" have been put in Leigh would have been promoted and Wakefield relegated, and Mr. Beaumont would have had chance to buy these players legitimately, would have a year to find his feet in SL with protection from relegation then a year to come 11th. or better in SL.

 

But Leigh are of course a shower and should shut up.

[The Parksider]

1. The ultimate though should still be ambition and gaining promotion, this is a semi and full professional game and this is what the players play for.

2. What can the league do to make the Championship more competitive, I don't know....

 

2. It's just not the point is it.

 

1. That's the point, It's what the league can do to make P & R happen in a more sustainable way.

 

Had there been a real vote, with options to choose Beaumont would have chosen P & R on a two year cycle.

 

And you'd be promoted now,and buying those players he's signing on a legitimate basis, and probably buying more.

 

And you'd be protected from relegation for a year in 2016 whilst Rowley and the team find their feet

 

And you'd sign more players again for a 2017 campaign to achieve 11th. or better.

 

Come on Mr "I don't know"

[dkw]

But hey I'm off topic, this is a Leigh bashing thread,,,,,

Oh look, childish nonsense.

[Philm]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Had the real "solution" have been put in Leigh would have been promoted and Wakefield relegated, and Mr. Beaumont would have had chance to buy these players legitimately, would have a year to find his feet in SL with protection from relegation then a year to come 11th. or better in SL.

 

Yes Wakefield would have been relegated, but there would have been a top four playoff or something akin to this in the Championship to decide who was promoted, and there is no guarantee it would have been Leigh.

[bobbruce]

It won't be "Leigh" the "club" doing it though, that's the point. It's about employing players at a separate company that is also owned/affiliated with the club's owners. Leigh or whoever else (Salford) can't be punished for it. Whether or not the RFL would (or even could) take the club owners to task for not operating in the "spirit of the rules" is another matter

If the company's owned By the clubs owners it still counts on the cap.

[sweaty craiq]

If the company's owned By the clubs owners it still counts on the cap.

 

That's not very hard to get around.

[bobbruce]

That's not very hard to get around.

No but then you'd better hope the player doesn't have a fall out with the club. Or even worse a messy divorce.

[The Parksider]

Oh look, childish nonsense.

 

So you have no argument left then. That's good. We're getting somewhere.

[The Parksider]

Yes Wakefield would have been relegated, but there would have been a top four playoff or something akin to this in the Championship to decide who was promoted, and there is no guarantee it would have been Leigh.

 

That's not the point is it Phil....

 

If Leigh had fallen to Bradford in a play off final in which both clubs were operating on a level cap then I would guess Mr. Beaumont would have had the good grace to accept that because it would have been a fair competition.

 

Then after pipping Leigh, Bradford could have been looking forward to being able to spend full SL cap, and could recruit as best possible given it's late season.

 

Then they would have a season free from relegation in SL in 2016 to get adjusted to Superleague and look to build again for 2017 in which relegation would be back on the cards. Their aim would be 11th. anything more a bonus.

 

Even if a Sheffield or a Halifax won it from 3rd. or 4th. they would have won it fair and square and they would equally have two years to build a side and get used to the higher level of competition with an aim to 11th. at worst 2017.

 

Les Catalans got just this protection in 2006 when they came bottom of SL. In 2007 they managed 10th. place and were nicely established in SL.

 

Hull.K.R.went up 2007 and managed 11th. first go as Salford had a very poor season.

 

Castleford went up 2008 and came bottom just short of Hull, the following year they came seventh that second year worked for them

 

Widnes went up 2012 and were bottom only just on points difference, protected for a second year they came 10th. It worked.....

 

It worked year after year that's the record, that's what the rebel clubs saw, that's what Martyn Sadler saw, that's what Derek Beaumont will be aware of.

 

But the RFL faction in the guise of Wood, Barwick, Solly, Hetherington, and their accountants KPMG saw something different, in a discredited abandoned system from Swiss Soccer that they decided to put in place because it would see "lot's of jeopardy" that would supposedly put crowds up in RL despite it's failure in Soccer. Padge did plenty of work to show that was nonsense, and the figures are now in to prove his point.

 

This was the most useless, brainless decision ever, in the face of a very workable alternative that the powers that be blocked from there being a vote on.

 

I'd have thought Solly now would be desperate to make it work, but suspect the SL clubs may not let him bow to Beaumont's very clever challenge. It's not that P & R didn't work this year that's the whole story, we have a stagnant Superleague in which Wakey or another could fail badly again and be trapped in a cycle of failure. We could easily see Bradford stepping down from being professional, or Beaumont cutting his investment, so the disaster could simply become bigger and bigger before the "Let's give it a chance" brigade start. 

[chuffer]

If the company's owned By the clubs owners it still counts on the cap.

 

Really?.....did anyone point this out to Marwan then?

[bobbruce]

Really?.....did anyone point this out to Marwan then?

Did Marwan use this to by pass the cap or did he use it to by pass the re introduction of the 50% of turn over rule.

[sweaty craiq]

If there is a 50% turnover rule then it shows how thick the RFL are, Turnover means FA when a club doesnt own the ground

[Angelic Cynic]

Is there any further information on whether or not Leigh have gone beyond the salary cap hitherto?

Now the reserve side is no more,are they going to sign even more players from overseas?

Will they ever stop whinging?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyleague/2446378/Celtic-Crusaders-become-first-team-in-Wales-to-join-Engage-Super-League.html