Leigh to spend full SL Cap

[binosh]

They will be full of confidence as well.Knowing that they can see Hock having another long well-paid holiday at a 4th club and knowing that they will be well recompensed next year however they do this year - or that they will be on their bike whether they want to be or not - must be a huge incentive to achieve,well,nothing.

      Having seen contracted Chase just walk away.Lots of money going out for lots of players not playing.

     I can't see how Beaumont is a successful businessman with this approach.

     He seems to have written this year off.

      A fool and his money are soon parted.

The stench of Envy & Jealousy in every post by AC is incredible, you despise Leigh & Derek so much but yet you would trade your clubs fortunes with Leigh in a heartbeat.

For all his media misdemeanours in the past which have now been curbed he puts thousands into the game for the fans enjoyment, Leigh averaged nearly 4k crowds last year in the championship and I saw more kids in Leigh shirts than ever in my lifetime.

That in itself is a great achievement from were we have been averaging only 1700 2 years prior which was still the 2nd best in that division, all this with your disgraceful clubs following of around 20 fans, which in fairness is usually on par with what the majority of the other clubs bring aswell.

Leigh have been around over 100 years and were a founder member, we have state of the art facilities we don't own, international players on the field, huge sponsorship, sold out Corporate, record shirt & merchandise sales, a phenomenal heritage programme more press "air time" than any SL in 2015 and have recruited more backroom staff for 2016/17/18 so at least there is a plan in place and player roster is underway for next year.

If we go up then we go up, if we don't we don't, at least we wont be playing on our local University pitch with a mediocre team because we don't have a University in Leigh.

I for one am enjoying the Championship, are you?

[The Parksider]

Despite Parksider's preferences and bias

 

There is no evidence of failure of the system 

 

Couldn't give a flying V if the game makes the wrong choices at the end of the day.

 

The system was brought in primarily to deliver P & R, It was given preference over another system.

 

The former failed to deliver,  the latter would have succeeded and would continue to succeed.

 

If you can't get that tough, but those who want to set their own measure of success by telling me that if you give it chance it may just deliver a promotion even though that may be in year four or year five or six clearly do have some sort of an agenda by setting a false criteria for success. If a CC club scraped home in year five and replaced an SL club would they then be saying "I told you so it worked".

 

You bet they would because they have an agenda, and to win that agenda they set their own narrow agenda of what is a success. However this is the REAL success we have thrown away........

 

In 2015 Leigh could have gone up and stayed up with 2 years to go at it.

In 2017 Bradford could return to SL and stay up

In 2019 maybe Featherstone could get that chance

In 2021 maybe Halifax or London. 

 

You see my optically challenged friend all these riches as set out in my agenda (oops sorry schedule  ) above, could be ours, yet there is this pathetic idea that if somewhere between 2015 and 2021 promotion happens once and the club goes straight back down then it is "success"???

 

You see in this alleged success of "qualifiers" promotion, if it ever happens, there is only  one season to stay up, if the poor schmucks go straight back down will this not reverse that success?? Not in the eyes of those with the real agenda. they will crow "look P & R is working Parky, your wrong"......

 

This "you have an agenda" isn't an argument, it's just goading. Grow up and deal with the actual debate.

[Oxford]

Couldn't give a flying V if the game makes the wrong choices at the end of the day.

 

The system was brought in primarily to deliver P & R, It was given preference over another system.

 

The former failed to deliver,  the latter would have succeeded and would continue to succeed.

 

If you can't get that tough, but those who want to set their own measure of success by telling me that if you give it chance it may just deliver a promotion even though that may be in year four or year five or six clearly do have some sort of an agenda by setting a false criteria for success. If a CC club scraped home in year five and replaced an SL club would they then be saying "I told you so it worked".

 

You bet they would because they have an agenda, and to win that agenda they set their own narrow agenda of what is a success. However this is the REAL success we have thrown away........

 

In 2015 Leigh could have gone up and stayed up with 2 years to go at it.

In 2017 Bradford could return to SL and stay up

In 2019 maybe Featherstone could get that chance

In 2021 maybe Halifax or London. 

 

You see my optically challenged friend all these riches as set out in my agenda (oops sorry schedule  ) above, could be ours, yet there is this pathetic idea that if somewhere between 2015 and 2021 promotion happens once and the club goes straight back down then it is "success"???

 

You see in this alleged success of "qualifiers" promotion, if it ever happens, there is only  one season to stay up, if the poor schmucks go straight back down will this not reverse that success?? Not in the eyes of those with the real agenda. they will crow "look P & R is working Parky, your wrong"......

 

This "you have an agenda" isn't an argument, it's just goading. Grow up and deal with the actual debate.

Now now,  Parksider,

 

1) It was brought in to provide the opportunity for promotion.

2) Just providing promotion as an automatic event at the end of a season is largely discredited for a number of reasons of which you are well aware.

3) just because promotion would have happened did not make it a sound system no matter how many times you say it did!

4) No one said you had an agenda just a bias towards straight up/down which is hardly a secret.

5) I do agree with this though: "All the Championship clubs should be able to compete for promotion. "

 

And saying that some of what was used as evidence was a tad suspect is part of the debate!

 

Notice, no insults, no having a go and although I sometimes make fun that's all it is! And all the best O.

[Dave T]

If we wanted to guarantee p and r we would have brought a guaranteed p and r system. Dead simple to understand.

For most.

[JDINTHEHIZZOUSE]

The stench of Envy & Jealousy in every post by AC is incredible, you despise Leigh & Derek so much but yet you would trade your clubs fortunes with Leigh in a heartbeat.

For all his media misdemeanours in the past which have now been curbed he puts thousands into the game for the fans enjoyment, Leigh averaged nearly 4k crowds last year in the championship and I saw more kids in Leigh shirts than ever in my lifetime.

That in itself is a great achievement from were we have been averaging only 1700 2 years prior which was still the 2nd best in that division, all this with your disgraceful clubs following of around 20 fans, which in fairness is usually on par with what the majority of the other clubs bring aswell.

Leigh have been around over 100 years and were a founder member, we have state of the art facilities we don't own, international players on the field, huge sponsorship, sold out Corporate, record shirt & merchandise sales, a phenomenal heritage programme more press "air time" than any SL in 2015 and have recruited more backroom staff for 2016/17/18 so at least there is a plan in place and player roster is underway for next year.

If we go up then we go up, if we don't we don't, at least we wont be playing on our local University pitch with a mediocre team because we don't have a University in Leigh.

I for one am enjoying the Championship, are you?

Well said binosh,though if you can edit that bit out where we don't have a university? And don't mention the lack of a train station either mate,if you could just focus on our 50 odd pubs and award winning chippies that would do

[Tommygilf]

Clearly P/R should be aimed to try and avoid the problems of other sports where one team goes up and then straight back down.

Isn't that the point of the middle 8s?

[kiwis 13 6]

The new new format will be a 16 team ERL with current 12 plus Leigh, Bradford, London and Toulouse. One up One Down P & R with conditions that a promoted side can only take up a spot in ERL if they meet set Facilities, Sponsorship/Funding & Jr development criteria. Boom you heard it here last.

[Tommygilf]

The new new format will be a 16 team ERL with current 12 plus Leigh, Bradford, London and Toulouse. One up One Down P & R with conditions that a promoted side can only take up a spot in ERL if they meet set Facilities, Sponsorship/Funding & Jr development criteria. Boom you heard it here last.

To be fair I agree with you although I'd put Toronto and Sheffield in the mix too

[The Parksider]

Clearly P/R should be aimed to try and avoid the problems of other sports where one team goes up and then straight back down.

Isn't that the point of the middle 8s?

 

No, the point of the middle eights was to make games more meaningful for more clubs and help boost crowds. This involved clubs at the bottom of Superleague fighting to avoid the bottom four and clubs in the championship fighting for the top four.

 

This method of promotion and relegation would then supposedly lead to bigger crowds. It was about money from bigger attendances in the process of promoting and relegating clubs.

 

There was more money because the clubs played more games in the system, whether it generated more fans is doubtful. It certainly did not generate anyone being promoted or relegated so it didn't deliver.

 

As an idea it wasn't an idea, it was a copy of a Swiss Soccer system that equally failed, and as such Martyn Sadler exposed it as such and set out his worries.

 

On this board the concensus of opinion was it could not work properly, it could only work by default if say an SL club imploded like Wakey and a CC club was on form like Leigh, which we had but even then that didn't happen. The obvious fault was the money and best players were all in SL and it was a totally lopsided and loaded "competition"

 

The RFL railroaded it through by offering SL clubs SKY money from the new deal up front to vote for the SKY package and this system. I nearly said new system but it was an old and failed system. The vote for it was only 7-6.

 

The counter proposal was automatic P & R and the way to allay your fear of straight up and straight down again was to award the winners of a part time championship a guaranteed two season stint in SL so they could not go down straight away and would have time to develop their team and a second season in which they could take time over recruitment (Sadler suggested 3 seasons). Plus their SKY money would cover full SL wages so championship clubs had a wonderful chance to get established in SL without a rich chairman, it was a brilliant idea and had it come in it guaranteed to promote clubs and it guaranteed clubs not to come straight down again.

 

This disasterous rubbish guaranteed nothing at all.

 

We are yet to see the full effects but nobody promoted was appalling, now allowing the Championship clubs to spend full SL cap in what is still mainly is a part time competition is appalling and remember this, crowds halved in a championship where clubs could go nowhere 2009-2014.

 

Some CC clubs crowds are still appalling and those who still get a crowd like Leigh and Bradford may in time see their crowds fall if fans get fed up of the clubs still banging their heads against a glass ceiling. Even if they did manage to go up they face a long hard season and failure - remember Leigh's promotion in 2004 and their immediate struggles and fall from grace 2005 on. 

 

So I'm sorry your wrong about what the middle eights are for, but that's OK - the decision was all politics and career building - but your right about the yo-yo problem and the RFL and Blake Solly at least solved that by having no promotion at all last year.

 

So many of us wanted P & R and didn't get it for six seasons, now that has gone to seven, and even if someone had gone up this year they would have faced as you say going straight back down.

 

But this system helps that happen not stop it. The alternative system guarranted clubs going up regularly and no yo-yoing at all - ever................

 

What's not to like about that?

[Angelic Cynic]

The stench of Envy & Jealousy in every post by AC is incredible, you despise Leigh & Derek so much but yet you would trade your clubs fortunes with Leigh in a heartbeat.

I for one am enjoying the Championship, are you?

 

    You are incorrect to assume that I am envious of Leigh Centurions and/or Derek Beaumont.I am probably apathetic.

 

If he wishes to spend the equivalent of the NRL salary cap then I would encourage him to do so.

 

Having lots of paying supporters and corporates hasn't done Manchester United too much good this season;nor did spending all that money on players  - and I believe Sheffield Wednesday outnumbered Hull City fans at Wembley,yesterday,but success eluded them,despite this.

 

  You've probably guessed that I am not enjoying The Championship - but then I look at Super League and even with their raised salary cap the standard has deteriorated over recent seasons.

 

   I acknowledge the wearing of the team shirt by people in the area as being significant and sincerely hope that when Sheffield Eagles get their home set up underway for 2017 this is replicated in and around the city.

 

   Just to reiterate - I have no jealousy towards Leigh Centurions - either the club in general,or the free-spending Mr Beaumont in particular.

 

    Whatever floats his boat.Buying successful players from other clubs is the way to go.Then,in another cycle of great decisions by the RFL we will go back to licensing and if Wayne Bennett doesn't gain victories with the English 'elite' player,we'll try and work out how to improve things,just like they wonder about improving English soccer players in a sport awash with money. 

 

     I am,of course,just wondering why the return of Mr Beaumont to Leigh Centurions,wasn't with the initial plan of spending as much as he likes.Too much time in the company of Dr Koukash,perhaps?  Could he not have been more original?

 

    Keep on spending... 

[Tommygilf]

No, the point of the middle eights was to make games more meaningful for more clubs and help boost crowds. This involved clubs at the bottom of Superleague fighting to avoid the bottom four and clubs in the championship fighting for the top four.

This method of promotion and relegation would then supposedly lead to bigger crowds. It was about money from bigger attendances in the process of promoting and relegating clubs.

There was more money because the clubs played more games in the system, whether it generated more fans is doubtful. It certainly did not generate anyone being promoted or relegated so it didn't deliver.

As an idea it wasn't an idea, it was a copy of a Swiss Soccer system that equally failed, and as such Martyn Sadler exposed it as such and set out his worries.

On this board the concensus of opinion was it could not work properly, it could only work by default if say an SL club imploded like Wakey and a CC club was on form like Leigh, which we had but even then that didn't happen. The obvious fault was the money and best players were all in SL and it was a totally lopsided and loaded "competition"

The RFL railroaded it through by offering SL clubs SKY money from the new deal up front to vote for the SKY package and this system. I nearly said new system but it was an old and failed system. The vote for it was only 7-6.

The counter proposal was automatic P & R and the way to allay your fear of straight up and straight down again was to award the winners of a part time championship a guaranteed two season stint in SL so they could not go down straight away and would have time to develop their team and a second season in which they could take time over recruitment (Sadler suggested 3 seasons). Plus their SKY money would cover full SL wages so championship clubs had a wonderful chance to get established in SL without a rich chairman, it was a brilliant idea and had it come in it guaranteed to promote clubs and it guaranteed clubs not to come straight down again.

This disasterous rubbish guaranteed nothing at all.

We are yet to see the full effects but nobody promoted was appalling, now allowing the Championship clubs to spend full SL cap in what is still mainly is a part time competition is appalling and remember this, crowds halved in a championship where clubs could go nowhere 2009-2014.

Some CC clubs crowds are still appalling and those who still get a crowd like Leigh and Bradford may in time see their crowds fall if fans get fed up of the clubs still banging their heads against a glass ceiling. Even if they did manage to go up they face a long hard season and failure - remember Leigh's promotion in 2004 and their immediate struggles and fall from grace 2005 on.

So I'm sorry your wrong about what the middle eights are for, but that's OK - the decision was all politics and career building - but your right about the yo-yo problem and the RFL and Blake Solly at least solved that by having no promotion at all last year.

So many of us wanted P & R and didn't get it for six seasons, now that has gone to seven, and even if someone had gone up this year they would have faced as you say going straight back down.

But this system helps that happen not stop it. The alternative system guarranted clubs going up regularly and no yo-yoing at all - ever................

What's not to like about that?

I'd be concerned with the "2 seasons proposal" that its just licensing 2.0. if they finished bottom in the first season, 8 points for example from the 11th placed side, why should the team in 11th go down?

The yo yo isn't great and perhaps another way would be to have 2 up 2 down, could mix it up a bit.

What must be avoided is what happens in other sports where the team going up essentially signs many of the team going downs players and vice versa.

[The Parksider]

I'd be concerned with the "2 seasons proposal" that its just licensing, if they finished bottom in the first season, 8 points for example from the 11th placed side, why should the team in 11th go down? What must be avoided is what happens in other sports where the team going up essentially signs many of the team going downs players and vice versa.

 

Tommy, under the Rebels proposal, if in year one a promoted club comes bottom, as such clubs have done, nobody goes down instead. If that promoted club - say Leigh, had gone up this time - had signed a few say Wakefield players for this year, then they'd have the rest of this season to look to sign other players to strengthen further for their second year.

 

One club up and one down every 2 years is a price to pay to give clubs a fighting chance to stay up.

 

Not great, but vastly preferable to giving them a dogs chance of going up in the first place and far more sensible than blowing the Championship apart allowing a club to spend £1,800,000 on players so the rest of the division become chopping blocks.

 

Good god, haven't the Championship clubs suffered enough. The last club to win promotion was way back in 2008 when Salford went up and some on here would have us wait until 2021 on a wing and a prayer someone will go up, and if they did they'd declare it a massive success (as they promptly went down again). Fans of Superleague clubs especially, should not be extolling the virtues of un-guaranteed promotion which advantages their clubs and leaves others to rot.

 

Back in 2009 Barrow won the Championship but were smashed up by the RFL on salary cap breaches, yet today the RFL allow Leigh to put the cap up twice by £hundreds of thousands each time.

 

2010 Halifax won it, a club who had been as high as 3rd. in SL and had crowds near to 6,000. Licensing blocked them out and declared them sub standard in 2011 when they applied for one.

 

2011 Featherstone won it during a sustained period of investing in facilities for a license only to see the chance to apply for one being ended along with licensing 

 

2012 & 2013 Sheffield won it and yes they have no fans, but they have a rich owner so what's the difference between them and any other SL club propped up by a rich owner playing out of a soccer ground?

 

2014 Leigh got it and 2015 finished first and surely with their rich owner should have been promoted, but even despite P & R allegedly being brought back a deserving championship club was blocked from promotion for the seventh time in a row and people would have this happen again, and again, and again and yes again so that history could show the Championship clubs having been frozen out of Superleague for over a decade.

 

It's disgraceful and damaging to the game, does anyone on here really think there is any difference between Wakefield, Widnes, Huddersfield Salford and Leigh, Halifax, Barrow Featherstone???

 

There is none when licensing requirements are removed and SKY will pay the wages,so the latter should be guaranteed their chances to have a go in SL now, rather than Pearson suggesting keeping it on 18 months just to "save face", because when it comes to our game who really is interested in P & R?

 

Not the media sports commentators, the press or the papers or fans of "I'm all right jack" SL clubs who can only see the top four. Scrap this ridiculous, stupid and unfair system, and get P & R back for 2017.... 

[Tommygilf]

Tommy, under the Rebels proposal, if in year one a promoted club comes bottom, as such clubs have done, nobody goes down instead. If that promoted club - say Leigh, had gone up this time - had signed a few say Wakefield players for this year, then they'd have the rest of this season to look to sign other players to strengthen further for their second year.

One club up and one down every 2 years is a price to pay to give clubs a fighting chance to stay up.

Not great, but vastly preferable to giving them a dogs chance of going up in the first place and far more sensible than blowing the Championship apart allowing a club to spend £1,800,000 on players so the rest of the division become chopping blocks.

Good god, haven't the Championship clubs suffered enough. The last club to win promotion was way back in 2008 when Salford went up and some on here would have us wait until 2021 on a wing and a prayer someone will go up, and if they did they'd declare it a massive success (as they promptly went down again). Fans of Superleague clubs especially, should not be extolling the virtues of un-guaranteed promotion which advantages their clubs and leaves others to rot.

Back in 2009 Barrow won the Championship but were smashed up by the RFL on salary cap breaches, yet today the RFL allow Leigh to put the cap up twice by £hundreds of thousands each time.

2010 Halifax won it, a club who had been as high as 3rd. in SL and had crowds near to 6,000. Licensing blocked them out and declared them sub standard in 2011 when they applied for one.

2011 Featherstone won it during a sustained period of investing in facilities for a license only to see the chance to apply for one being ended along with licensing

2012 & 2013 Sheffield won it and yes they have no fans, but they have a rich owner so what's the difference between them and any other SL club propped up by a rich owner playing out of a soccer ground?

2014 Leigh got it and 2015 finished first and surely with their rich owner should have been promoted, but even despite P & R allegedly being brought back a deserving championship club was blocked from promotion for the seventh time in a row and people would have this happen again, and again, and again and yes again so that history could show the Championship clubs having been frozen out of Superleague for over a decade.

It's disgraceful and damaging to the game, does anyone on here really think there is any difference between Wakefield, Widnes, Huddersfield Salford and Leigh, Halifax, Barrow Featherstone???

There is none when licensing requirements are removed and SKY will pay the wages,so the latter should be guaranteed their chances to have a go in SL now, rather than Pearson suggesting keeping it on 18 months just to "save face", because when it comes to our game who really is interested in P & R?

Not the media sports commentators, the press or the papers or fans of "I'm all right jack" SL clubs who can only see the top four. Scrap this ridiculous, stupid and unfair system, and get P & R back for 2017....

Ah I see, but surely that raises the same issues you mention later where clubs win the Championship but don't go up?

I suppose fully professionalising the championship is the way it is going and given time (Sheffield atm are in a phase of adjustment) the pro clubs will be challenging best.

[The Parksider]

1. Ah I see, but surely that raises the same issues you mention later where clubs win the Championship but don't go up?

2. I suppose fully professionalising the championship is the way it is going and given time the pro clubs will be challenging best.

 

3.  (Sheffield atm are in a phase of adjustment) 

 

1. Yes of course, it's not ideal but it is guaranteed P & R with a solution to yo-yoing.

 

Championship clubs would not go up every other year, but it would be a case of ambitious clubs simply planning a two year assault on winning a Superlague place. Featherstone started their ambitious plan for SL around 2010 and built themselves up towards being ready for the day they achieved that goal, but all that happened was they banged their head against a locked door year on year whilst wasting a load of money, and are now a dual reg club. 

 

2. Your bang on that fully professionalising the championship would be the solution in theory. We just need them to find them a £90,000,000 five year TV deal in a market where their value is roughly zero. The clubs realised that to be able to beat the system (and this is the disaster this system is - clubs have to beat it, they aren't catered to by it) they would have to go pro and the RFL/Solly knew this and gave the top two clubs prize money of £Half a Million so it could work.

 

It just didn't work, not enough money and no SL quality players to buy. They should have known this.

 

So they have now allowed Leigh's Beaumont to spend £1,800,000 on wages as a desperate attempt to make it work. He may just do it, Leigh may just go up....

 

"I told you so"

 

May smugly ring around this Forum. But what then?? Who is the next club with an owner wanting to spend £1,000,000 of his own money annually which may all go to waste like Featherstone's investments did?? I can't think of anyone can you??

 

Nor can the RFL, and so this is why Pearson reckons they'll kill the system in "18 months" by when the RFL hope Leigh will have somehow saved their face by going up, regardless of the probability they will go straight back down, and there being nobody else to achieve promotion this extreme way after that. The raising of the CC salary cap is disingenuous rubbish. All they are trying to do is sell Leigh promotion to save face, because you can give it all the time in the world Tommy, the championship doesn't have big benevolent £Millionaires or any value in the TV deal for anyone else to be able to professionalise to SL: level.

 

3. Sheffield are IMHO in crisis not adjustment. As soon as Championship clubs realised they had to find £1M a season to even hope to compete for SL places with SL clubs, they all had differing and dithering reactions. Beaumont is prepared to spend everything he has, Fev decided to give up cut costs and go dual reg. Halifax IIRC spoke about going pro but backed out, Bradford stayed pro then spoke about going part time. Sheffield dived into fully pro, sacked off good players and could not find replacements with Aston lamenting he can't find players "who want to play for this club" after London trounced them at the bash.

 

It is ridiculous for the RFL to offer the solution to Championship clubs that if they are worried the system won't promote them then they can find £1,000,000 of their own money a season to try (probably in vain) to make it work out of their own pockets, after which they face going straight back down.

 

Absurd and clearly disingenuous.

[Angelic Cynic]

3. Sheffield are IMHO in crisis not adjustment.Sheffield dived into fully pro, sacked off good players and could not find replacements with Aston lamenting he can't find players "who want to play for this club" after London trounced them at the bash.

 

    I try not to dignify your regular remarks about Sheffield,which are often wrong,by replying.

However,The Eagles lost to London last year,at the ridiculous Bash,located last year close to the only Lancashire club in The Championship,Leigh,making the clubs in Yorkshire travel across there on busy Bank Holiday weekends.

  Mark Aston made his remark after watching the performance and it was made in relation to the players at the club now;many of them young,and on contracts for 2/3 years.

 

   Staying on topic - It is interesting that 2 players who benefited from the coaching of Paul Rowley,left Leigh recently to join Super League clubs.Sarsfield has left Salford on loan to play for Championship club Halifax and Brierley cannot get in the Huddersfield squad now Grix has returned.

 

    It would seem that a lot of the promised salary cap for the future will therefore be going on signing players capable of performing to Super League standards,should Leigh gain promotion.

 

    Experienced former national coach Noble had trouble getting his expensive signings to gel - even though Salford were allegedly above the salary cap during his time there.

 

     Mark Aston is having a similar problem with the players signed on what is presumably a smaller budget,so it is some way from 'being a crisis'.

[LeeF]

1. Yes of course, it's not ideal but it is guaranteed P & R with a solution to yo-yoing.

 

Championship clubs would not go up every other year, but it would be a case of ambitious clubs simply planning a two year assault on winning a Superlague place. Featherstone started their ambitious plan for SL around 2010 and built themselves up towards being ready for the day they achieved that goal, but all that happened was they banged their head against a locked door year on year whilst wasting a load of money, and are now a dual reg club. 

 

2. Your bang on that fully professionalising the championship would be the solution in theory. We just need them to find them a £90,000,000 five year TV deal in a market where their value is roughly zero. The clubs realised that to be able to beat the system (and this is the disaster this system is - clubs have to beat it, they aren't catered to by it) they would have to go pro and the RFL/Solly knew this and gave the top two clubs prize money of £Half a Million so it could work.

 

It just didn't work, not enough money and no SL quality players to buy. They should have known this.

 

So they have now allowed Leigh's Beaumont to spend £1,800,000 on wages as a desperate attempt to make it work. He may just do it, Leigh may just go up....

 

"I told you so"

 

May smugly ring around this Forum. But what then?? Who is the next club with an owner wanting to spend £1,000,000 of his own money annually which may all go to waste like Featherstone's investments did?? I can't think of anyone can you??

 

Nor can the RFL, and so this is why Pearson reckons they'll kill the system in "18 months" by when the RFL hope Leigh will have somehow saved their face by going up, regardless of the probability they will go straight back down, and there being nobody else to achieve promotion this extreme way after that. The raising of the CC salary cap is disingenuous rubbish. All they are trying to do is sell Leigh promotion to save face, because you can give it all the time in the world Tommy, the championship doesn't have big benevolent £Millionaires or any value in the TV deal for anyone else to be able to professionalise to SL: level.

 

3. Sheffield are IMHO in crisis not adjustment. As soon as Championship clubs realised they had to find £1M a season to even hope to compete for SL places with SL clubs, they all had differing and dithering reactions. Beaumont is prepared to spend everything he has, Fev decided to give up cut costs and go dual reg. Halifax IIRC spoke about going pro but backed out, Bradford stayed pro then spoke about going part time. Sheffield dived into fully pro, sacked off good players and could not find replacements with Aston lamenting he can't find players "who want to play for this club" after London trounced them at the bash.

 

It is ridiculous for the RFL to offer the solution to Championship clubs that if they are worried the system won't promote them then they can find £1,000,000 of their own money a season to try (probably in vain) to make it work out of their own pockets, after which they face going straight back down.

 

Absurd and clearly disingenuous.

If Leigh, or whoever, got promoted why would they come straight back down ? Surely they would then benefit from being one of the chosen ones ie a SL team and all the advantages that brings whilst whoever went down would need a Derek clone to fund a promotion bid?

[sweaty craiq]

When Leigh/Bradford get promoted this year they will finish bottom four and be in the eights, they will stay up and be stronger the following year

The clubs generally competing in the 8' s will be at least three of Cas Widnes HKR Wakey Salford every season after this one

[The Parksider]

1. I try not to dignify your regular remarks about Sheffield,which are often wrong

 

2. Staying on topic - It is interesting that 2 players who benefited from the coaching of Paul Rowley,left Leigh recently to join Super League clubs. Sarsfield has left Salford on loan to play for Championship club Halifax and Brierley cannot get in the Huddersfield squad now Grix has returned. It would seem that a lot of the promised salary cap for the future will therefore be going on signing players capable of performing to Super League standards,should Leigh gain promotion.

 

1. The only "remarks" I make about Sheffield are that after 40 plus years is that the local game is very thin, and crowds are limited, but neither really matters as long as you have a rich benevolent  owner. That's not unfair to say, and neither is it unkind.

 

2. Thanks for your view, should Leigh get promotion this year which would be confirmed in the last game of the season (early October last year) where will these superleague standard players come from given SL clubs will have just about mopped the best up by then?

[The Parksider]

If Leigh, or whoever, got promoted why would they come straight back down ? Surely they would then benefit from being one of the chosen ones ie a SL team and all the advantages that brings whilst whoever went down would need a Derek clone to fund a promotion bid?

 

They "face going straight back down" is what I said. The current RFL system offers Mr. Beaumont the wonderful chance to spend £1,000,000 of his own money to try to make the RFL system work so they can save face by getting Leigh promoted. Once there Leigh may or may not stay up, but if they did go down Mr. Beaumont's £1,000,000 will all be wasted.

 

Why should Mr. Beaumont have to risk £1,000,000 of his hard earned money in the first place to bail out the RFL over a farce of the RFL's own making?? It's not as if Leigh voted for this system? It's not as if they even got a vote??

 

Leigh won the darn thing two years ago in style, were top Championship club last year, they are this year and the RFL have the cheek to encourage the owner to spend piles more money to get over a problem of the  RFL's making with no guarantee Leigh can stay up if they did it.

 

Featherstone TBF did all they could year on year to satisfy the RFL for a licence and were dumped on, now it's Leigh that are being dumped on when we are supposed to be back to P & R when the progressive CC clubs are supposed to replace the regressive SL clubs - like the ones who won't spend full SL cap.

 

Read on......

[The Parksider]

When Leigh/Bradford get promoted this year they will finish bottom four and be in the eights, they will stay up and be stronger the following year

 

"Will"? It's not fair Craiq, I'm supposed to put IMHO before these factual prefix verbs!!

 

We have discussed Leigh's plan for promotion before and whilst you and other Leigh fans and Beaumont tacitly accept the system with optimism, I don't think it fair you should do that, certainly not when it was voted in narrowly on an RL fix baiting SL clubs to vote for it along with early SKY deal payments.

 

Like Featherstone did Leigh are doing all they can do year on year to get a fair crack of the whip and now after a third year dominating the Championship they have to fork out even more money to try to get over hurdles of the RFL's own making.

 

Yes if Leigh do get promotion they can sit back and leave the rest of the Championship with the task of dislodging them. After all Leigh will be able to spend full SL cap again if they go up.That will probably be you and your club sorted, and well deserved.

 

But after that what? Is there any Championship club that has any hope of spending £1,800,000 on players whilst in the championship. You'll stay up because the Championship clubs will all be heavily handicapped.

 

We await to see whether Beaumont can boost the side enough mid season to overcome an SL club. 

[Oxford]

Let me put another and far less RFL bashing spin on this; the RFL tried to fix a system that didn't work the first time around. They tried to answer all the criticisms and needs of those involved. They tried to bring back P - R in a way that would stop meaningless matches as well. When this was in action the Championship clubs didn't quite deliver and they complained, so the RFL tried to answer that one too. In other words what happened was the RFL trying to placate everyone placated almost no one. And on  one of the few occasions the RFL were proactive rather than reactive the championship clubs came up with another question to answer and the RFL became their old reactive selves. And the evidence that the system is not working is a handy myth for those who prefer another system! I know this story lacks drama and crisis and this storyline itself barely crosses the interest threshold but which seems more plausible to you? The RFL and the end the world or the RFL didn't quite get it right because too many self-interested parties got too much say!

[The Parksider]

Let me put another and far less RFL bashing spin on this; the RFL tried to fix a system that didn't work the first time around. They tried to answer all the criticisms and needs of those involved. They tried to bring back P - R in a way that would stop meaningless matches as well. When this was in action the Championship clubs didn't quite deliver and they complained, so the RFL tried to answer that one too. In other words what happened was the RFL trying to placate everyone placated almost no one.

 

The system should be compared with the alternative system proposed along side it.

 

Six SL clubs voted for the alternative system, that would have worked by NOW - 1. deal with that please?

 

Seven SL clubs voted for for  a system that would:-

 

2. Give them every chance not to get relegated. (self interest)

3. Give them advance payments from the SKY money they were desperate for as they were skint. (self interest again)

4. Was borrowed from Swiss soccer whose officials suggested we do not touch it. 

5. Was introduced by a career builder who has now been elbowed out. (self interest)

6. Was NOT put to a vote amongst the Championship clubs (self interest again)

7. Would go on maintaining the stagnation and decline of the Championship since 2008

 

Indeed you are excusing the RFL from the bashing they deserve, and you are putting a ridiculous spin on the debate by totally ignoring the core issues of 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 & 6 & 7 above. Deal with them please.

 

As for "meaningful matches" this was about jeapordy and the resultant crowds,and crowds didn't go up because as was said at the time by many fans on here games between mid table clubs in which SL sides had a grossly unfair advantage over CC sides had little meaning for fans. As was stated as fact by the Swiss football officials crowds didn't find the system meaningful there, in the end it bored them, yet the RFL & Solly ignored that as you are doing.

 

8. If you have any evidence you can put forward that crowds were/are boosted by the meaningfullness of it all then please actually produce it?

 

9. If you can explain why no P & R was somehow meaningful please explain it?

 

10. What about what it "means" to twelve championship clubs to be given a fair and even chance of getting promotion to SL? deal with that please? Do you really think any of them wanted this system??

 

Here's your simple and easy bottom line if you can't handle all the above ten flaws in your argument. Go back to the original meeting and the 7-6 vote. Just let us know which system would YOU have voted in of the two??

[Tommygilf]

1. Yes of course, it's not ideal but it is guaranteed P & R with a solution to yo-yoing.

Championship clubs would not go up every other year, but it would be a case of ambitious clubs simply planning a two year assault on winning a Superlague place. Featherstone started their ambitious plan for SL around 2010 and built themselves up towards being ready for the day they achieved that goal, but all that happened was they banged their head against a locked door year on year whilst wasting a load of money, and are now a dual reg club.

2. Your bang on that fully professionalising the championship would be the solution in theory. We just need them to find them a £90,000,000 five year TV deal in a market where their value is roughly zero. The clubs realised that to be able to beat the system (and this is the disaster this system is - clubs have to beat it, they aren't catered to by it) they would have to go pro and the RFL/Solly knew this and gave the top two clubs prize money of £Half a Million so it could work.

It just didn't work, not enough money and no SL quality players to buy. They should have known this.

So they have now allowed Leigh's Beaumont to spend £1,800,000 on wages as a desperate attempt to make it work. He may just do it, Leigh may just go up....

"I told you so"

May smugly ring around this Forum. But what then?? Who is the next club with an owner wanting to spend £1,000,000 of his own money annually which may all go to waste like Featherstone's investments did?? I can't think of anyone can you??

Nor can the RFL, and so this is why Pearson reckons they'll kill the system in "18 months" by when the RFL hope Leigh will have somehow saved their face by going up, regardless of the probability they will go straight back down, and there being nobody else to achieve promotion this extreme way after that. The raising of the CC salary cap is disingenuous rubbish. All they are trying to do is sell Leigh promotion to save face, because you can give it all the time in the world Tommy, the championship doesn't have big benevolent £Millionaires or any value in the TV deal for anyone else to be able to professionalise to SL: level.

3. Sheffield are IMHO in crisis not adjustment. As soon as Championship clubs realised they had to find £1M a season to even hope to compete for SL places with SL clubs, they all had differing and dithering reactions. Beaumont is prepared to spend everything he has, Fev decided to give up cut costs and go dual reg. Halifax IIRC spoke about going pro but backed out, Bradford stayed pro then spoke about going part time. Sheffield dived into fully pro, sacked off good players and could not find replacements with Aston lamenting he can't find players "who want to play for this club" after London trounced them at the bash.

It is ridiculous for the RFL to offer the solution to Championship clubs that if they are worried the system won't promote them then they can find £1,000,000 of their own money a season to try (probably in vain) to make it work out of their own pockets, after which they face going straight back down.

Absurd and clearly disingenuous.

The concept of a "fully professional" championship is not ridiculously out of reach imo. If RU can have a pro Doncaster and Rotherham in the second tier why can't RL do something similar?

Money is clearly an issue and the fact that the RU premiership salary cap has just been increased to over 5 million should not go unnoticed. There is evidently more money on the other side. However the model and commitment to two fully pro leagues should be admired.

On Sheffield, I feel like they've got the long term in mind. They know that with the players they had last year being part time they were only ever going to fall further behind the likes of leigh, london and Bradford. Though this means short term hardships that they're experiencing now, in 2 years time I feel this will have proved to be a wise decision.

Furthermore, lets remember Sheffield's current temporary ground scenario, not ideal by anyone's standards.

[Dave T]

I am a big fan of sustainability and think the game has been sensible in its approach of getting the basics right and laying a solid platform, but I do wonder whether we have gone too far that way when we frown upon individuals wanting to invest their money in Rugby League. I think it is important that the game encourages sensible investment, ie in infrastructure etc. and would welcome an approach which only allows people to have extended caps when they have things like Academy and reserve structures for example, but I would suggest it is probably only in RL would we sneer so openly at people pumping their hard earned cash into the game.

[Scubby]

Let me put another and far less RFL bashing spin on this; the RFL tried to fix a system that didn't work the first time around. They tried to answer all the criticisms and needs of those involved. They tried to bring back P - R in a way that would stop meaningless matches as well. When this was in action the Championship clubs didn't quite deliver and they complained, so the RFL tried to answer that one too. In other words what happened was the RFL trying to placate everyone placated almost no one. And on  one of the few occasions the RFL were proactive rather than reactive the championship clubs came up with another question to answer and the RFL became their old reactive selves. And the evidence that the system is not working is a handy myth for those who prefer another system! I know this story lack drama and crisis and this storyline itself barely crosses the interest threshold but which seems more plausible to you? The RFL and the end the world or the RFL didn't quite get it right because too many self-interested parties got too much say!

 

The RFL needs to create a vision and work towards it. If the vision is 16 fully professional clubs spending to the cap then say that. If it is 2x10 divisions with P&R then say it. If it is 3x8 still in 2030 then say it. 

 

They have brought in a system that they seem to have instantly lost faith in marketing - even when it has brought more to the table than in 2015. Where is every minute matters? Where is the marketing? Exiles, Roses, Magic, Internationals - we can't run a whole sport strategy on one push at launch and then sit back and watch it wither. Sports don't run on 'if it swims it swims' mentalities.