2018 Kits

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Yakstorm said:

Salford's 2018 Home

Quick glance i thought that was a Hull or KR top because the badge just doesnt scream Salford and when its small could easily be the 3 crowns... nice kit but urgh the badge

[Trinity]

Salford kit is way too much like a HKR kit, the Wigan away kit has to be the worst so far I think.

[Spidey]

18 minutes ago, Trinity said:

Salford kit is way too much like a HKR kit, the Wigan away kit has to be the worst so far I think.

Na it’s more like a Salford kit. Salford have played in mainly red for as long as I can remember. Hull KR was always mainly white with the red band

[Hopping Mad]

That Wigan away kit is reminiscent of a dog's breakfast shirt worn as an alternative by Cowdenbeath FC in the late Eighties. It's a complete shocker. Unless they have to (i.e. the players), who would wear that in public? When it comes to design, any sort of design, nothing succeeds like simplicity. The Wigan home shirt follows this guideline - and looks excellent.

[Wolford6]

22 minutes ago, Trinity said:

 the Wigan away kit has to be the worst so far I think.

Don't say that, the Bulls management will order a hasty redesign for ours.

Some traditions have to be maintained.

[Hopping Mad]

On 10/11/2017 at 5:15 PM, PREPOSTEROUS said:

 

 

Love it. Now, imagine how great Workington Town's strip would look if they took a leaf out of Wakefield's book and opted for a plain white shirt with a broad blue band across the chest.

[EastLondonMike]

Sadly you can't force a club to like / commit to a design, but you'd like to think the kit supplier would be trusted when it comes to what looks good. Sometimes its not the case. Monkey Lover recently said that Kris Radlinski is in charge of what the kit looks like for Wigan, so guess any ire from any RL fans should be directed at his tastes.

Speaking from experience you have to be part salesman to be a designer in teamsports and have the ability to really sell your ideas to the club / team as all too often you end up with a dogs dinner like the Wigan away kit!

[gingerjon]

Salford and Wakefield shirts looking good.

[EastLondonMike]

Would be interesting to see the initial Errea designs against what was finally signed off by Wigan, and other clubs..

[Dave T]

32 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

Of course there would be input but the ultimate decision lies with the club and as I have said on here before Wigan have a very clear strategy, as do other clubs at an Elite level, which is usually a 3 year cycle of traditional strips and something different. 

The younger generation of supporter want things that are away from the norm and they have to be catered for which is probably Wigan requested that away shirt design.

As for ISC they have used the exact same template for Leeds, Warrington and Hull FC which would suggest a very lazy design process however if that's what the club wants it is fine. 

The fact 2 clubs who are with ISC currently are now talking to errea for a switch in 2019 would suggest the 'pap' is actually quite nice and those clubs fancy wearing it.

So did Kris Radlinski or somebody else at Wigan design that 2nd kit? Or did they say they wanted something alternative?

[Scubby]

15 hours ago, Benjamaphone said:

Closer views from Twitter

Are Shearings sponsoring the whole squad or just the coaching staff? 

[rhinos78]

1 hour ago, Monkey Lover said:

Of course there would be input but the ultimate decision lies with the club and as I have said on here before Wigan have a very clear strategy, as do other clubs at an Elite level, which is usually a 3 year cycle of traditional strips and something different. 

The younger generation of supporter want things that are away from the norm and they have to be catered for which is probably Wigan requested that away shirt design.

As for ISC they have used the exact same template for Leeds, Warrington and Hull FC which would suggest a very lazy design process however if that's what the club wants it is fine. 

The fact 2 clubs who are with ISC currently are now talking to errea for a switch in 2019 would suggest the 'pap' is actually quite nice and those clubs fancy wearing it.

On the last sentence. 

How the strips looks or the quality of it, wont be very high up the list of prorities for the 2 clubs thinking of switching to errea. The financial package will be the main,if not only reason they decide to switch,if they do.

[RP London]

58 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

As with every other club they gave a very firm indication of what they wanted and tweaked the designs until satisfied.

It amazes me to think that some people think that a club spending hundreds of thousands a year with a manufacturer would just sit back and let some crazy Italian design the kit before accepting it without any question 

I dont think anyone is saying they would accept it without questions.. what they are saying is that they are getting terrible offerings and if this is the best out of the bunch what were the others like or did they reject some quite nice versions etc

[deluded pom?]

1 hour ago, Monkey Lover said:

As with every other club they gave a very firm indication of what they wanted and tweaked the designs until satisfied.

It amazes me to think that some people think that a club spending hundreds of thousands a year with a manufacturer would just sit back and let some crazy Italian design the kit before accepting it without any question 

The crazy Italian can't have done a worse design than that Wigan away one.

[Shaggy]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

I’ve already said it doesn’t work like that. A club will tell the supplier what they want and the supplier will make an effort to give them that first time but very often it will take 3 or 4 versions before the club are satisfied and approve it. At no point would any club with half a brain just say to ISC or errea ‘surprise me guys, I’m happy for you to choose this year’.

 

 

I think we understand how it works but when we see the results we begin to doubt it.

You're saying someone at Wigan said to Errea: This year we want a purple away kit with a repeated pattern on it. Perhaps the castle from our crest. Make it look like some kids pyjamas.

I think most people are more comfortable with thinking that some crazy Italian slapped it down on the table and said: You want something different, you pay £50,000 more!

So the issue is that people in the clubs are asking for and signing off on strange designs. The real fun thing will come when we find out that this turns out to be the best selling away kit in Wigan's history!

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

I’ve already said it doesn’t work like that. A club will tell the supplier what they want and the supplier will make an effort to give them that first time but very often it will take 3 or 4 versions before the club are satisfied and approve it. At no point would any club with half a brain just say to ISC or errea ‘surprise me guys, I’m happy for you to choose this year’.

 

 

no one is or has said "surprise me guys, i'm happy for you to choose this year" but equally I fail to believe that it works differently to any other design agency or company that you brief in the type of thing that you want and they come back with a few versions of which you basically pick one and tweak from there.. if it doesnt then it really should.. so people are simply wondering what the other versions of this brief were that were rejected.. 

Other teams have had supporter votes on 4 designs.. surely the designers come up with more than 1 version of a brief.. I am constantly sitting down with 3-4 versions of design briefs at work at initial concept stage to then decide on which angle you go down.

 

 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

I think we understand how it works but when we see the results we begin to doubt it.

You're saying someone at Wigan said to Errea: This year we want a purple away kit with a repeated pattern on it. Perhaps the castle from our crest. Make it look like some kids pyjamas.

I think most people are more comfortable with thinking that some crazy Italian slapped it down on the table and said: You want something different, you pay £50,000 more!

So the issue is that people in the clubs are asking for and signing off on strange designs. The real fun thing will come when we find out that this turns out to be the best selling away kit in Wigan's history!

or just that they say the above and only get one version to chose from (which i simply don't believe).. there would have been other versions on this theme with more or less castles.. one bloody great big castle in the middle etc and they chose this one.. 

Most people would just like to see the other versions when something this bloody awful gets produced to see that that was the best of a bad bunch.. 

equally when designing packaging or marketing etc you can turn around and say "I know I said I wanted that but now that I have seen it in the flesh screw it!" (equally i know plenty of companies who will always produce a "you didnt say you wanted this but this was our take on it based on other things you have done")

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Monkey Lover said:

As with every other club they gave a very firm indication of what they wanted and tweaked the designs until satisfied.

It amazes me to think that some people think that a club spending hundreds of thousands a year with a manufacturer would just sit back and let some crazy Italian design the kit before accepting it without any question 

You are being intentionally evasive in your answers.

Would somebody at the Wigan club have designed this kit? Would they have used felts, or crayons, or MS Paint, or would they sit and say "can you repeat the castle from the logo over and over". Or do they say - we want something traditional for the home, and crazy for the away and then the manufacturer would present options?

That is what I am trying to understand.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

No, they would have had meetings with the retail and marketing teams at Wigan before flying out to Parma and then siting with the designer attached to Wigan Warriors at errea and explaining what it is they want. They would then be presented with a few versions and then one of those versions would be selected and tweaked until they were happy. It's a very standard process.

I'm really not sure how easier it can be explained?

We work with design agencies and give a brief on what we want. They will design the product or concept. We wil then feedback or choose one.

You seem to be suggesting that the Rugby clubs are pretty much designing these kits. Why do manufacurers have designers if it is being done for them?

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

No, they would have had meetings with the retail and marketing teams at Wigan before flying out to Parma and then siting with the designer attached to Wigan Warriors at errea and explaining what it is they want. They would then be presented with a few versions and then one of those versions would be selected and tweaked until they were happy. It's a very standard process.

I'm really not sure how easier it can be explained?

You hadnt explained it like that though.. even to the point that i said "what they are saying is that they are getting terrible offerings and if this is the best out of the bunch what were the others like or did they reject some quite nice versions etc" you then replied "I've already said it doesnt work like that" where as in actual fact it does work like that.. so they get a few designs to then narrow it down... and Christ they must have been bad for that one to get ahead of them!

 

[EastLondonMike]

Things must work differently at Errea than some other places i've worked at. Or maybe its just with Wigan.

I work as an apparel and product designer myself for a sportswear brand and from my own personal experience i would research and design a collection based on what i think is relevant to the asset / customer, taking into account current trends / historical trends, and build a story around that. Then present to the Asset doing my best to sell my ideas to the Asset. If you cant sell your ideas then you have little chance of getting them signed off. Of course the asset will have some input and its about managing that so you don't end up with something pretty nasty.

You'll always have situations with some assets that just want a stripe on the chest of a tshirt or polo and wont shift on that. So you have to sometimes take a bit of a hit in situations like that, but as a rule i would always lead on the creative approach.

I guess it comes down to the relationship Wigan have with Errea, If Wigan only want what they want, it wont matter what Errea offer.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

Maybe you do but unless you work in the same field, eg Sports Kit and Apparel, I am not sure how you can expect things to be done in exactly the same way? 

Why would the retail manager and marketing team of a club that have very clear plans about what they want to do all season with regard to promotions, events and merchandise that ties in with all of that just allow someone else in another Country to tell them how their shirts and training gear will look? We don't even have amateur clubs who would stand for that, they go online on kit designer websites and tell us what they want and we try our best to copy it until they are satisfied. We had a Championship Club in Italy 3 times this Autumn sorting their kit design out because they wanted to keep changing it. It would have been really nice to just say 'This is what you're having now sod off' but it doesn't happen that way.

To answer your last question manufacturers have designers to produce professional standard cad designs for production and to help create the ideas of the club, not to guess what clubs all over the World might fancy for their kit this year. How could someone in Italy even begin to guess at what Wigan might want and why would Wigan just sit there like idiots accepting what is sent to them? 

Erm, I don't think it will work the same, hence asking you questions! You seem to have gone into a defensive mode because people have been critical of the kit when people are genuinely trying to understand how this process works.

And nobody thinks you just say here is your kit, you are being rather silly.

But let's try and make this very clear what my question is.

At the discussion stage/briefing stage/design session - whatever you want to call it - would the club be as prescriptive as saying we want a purple kit with little castles all over, or would they lay out their vision ie. we want something a bit crazy, to appeal to the youth market, to utilise xy and z coulour scheme, etc and then let the creative whizzes do their magic?

[deluded pom?]

Magic!!!!!!!!

[Wolford6]

If the Bulls' past few seasons are a pointer, we need a design featuring a merry-go-round, a revolving door and numbers up to 45. Don't bother with Number 7 though.

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Monkey Lover said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across that way I just felt like I was banging my head against a brick wall :-)

Usually a club will give an indication of what they want, sometimes images and sometimes just a description, prior to visiting the Manufacturers which would include things like colour scheme, design features, events to tie in with, training kit colours to tie in with etc. Then the manufacturer would prepare some ideas. With Wigan it is usually a very firm and very clear indication of what they want.

Thanks - it's where I have an issue with clubs being too prescriptive - it is the same in our industry - I work in banking, and maybe we would be talking about a plastic design - some people in our business would want to brief it in including colours, fonts, placing of words etc. whereas my approach is very much brief in a concept and my aims and objectives and allow the creative agencies to earn their money!