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Man of Kent

Lions tour 2019 (Merged Threads)

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16 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The problem with the international game, and this tour especially, is that it is completely devoid of context.

The lions havent toured in 23 years. They havent played in 13 years. This is just a random collection of games. Why should i care if they win or lose? why should anyone care enough to spend thousands going?

The 9s WC was a concept that hadnt been played in 2 years and hadnt ever been played internationally, the teams were invited seemingly at random, one not even a proper national side. Why does it matter who wins?

The international game is random and sporadic and has no semblance of overarching narrative. 

England will have played no competitive games and 6 series matches, between the 2017 WC and the 2021 WC. 
Between the 2018 WC and the 2022 WC England football team will play 10-12 nations league games, 8 European qualifiers, a European cup,  8-10 World Cup qualifiers. Plus friendlies. 

What we need is regular international competition in all forms of the game, to build a narrative around it. We need regular, read yearly, competition in the NH between NH nations, we need regular games between the SH sides. We need regular games between the NH sides and SH sides. We need to be player 8-10 internationals per year. minimum. 

Until we do that we will continue to have poor attendances and struggle to sell. People can't build an affiliation with teams they see play every couple of years. 

This is especially true for the other nations. How can ireland or wales learn to hate the English and love their team when they hardly ever play, and never in those nations. 

Take two of your pills Scotchy and slow down.

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4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

If nothing else, the shirt sales will have earned some revenue for the RFL. £50 a pop should lessen the pain!

Do me a favour! About 10 people will pay full whack, the rest will wait for the inevitable sale just before Christmas. Guaranteed 

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1 hour ago, Gibbo said:

Thanks for the reply Dave.

As many have said from way back, this Tour will bankrupt the game

This tour will get nowhere near bankrupting the game.

It wont make a lot if anything but i doubt it loses the RFL a whole lot either. 

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Do me a favour! About 10 people will pay full whack, the rest will wait for the inevitable sale just before Christmas. Guaranteed 

They've sold well, apparently. Steve Mascord wrote about it a while back.

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5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

They've sold well, apparently. Steve Mascord wrote about it a while back.

They’d have to sell one to most of the country in order to make anything off this tour. 

Edited by Johnoco

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Just now, Johnoco said:

They’d have to sell one to most of the country in order to make anything off this tour. 

Doesn't really matter if the RFL doesn't make anything from the tour (as long as they don't lose loads, of course).

Next year's Kangaroo tour and WC2021 will make money.

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4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Doesn't really matter if the RFL doesn't make anything from the tour (as long as they don't lose loads, of course).

Next year's Kangaroo tour and WC2021 will make money.

I’ll believe you, thousands wouldn’t 

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2 hours ago, Gibbo said:

Thanks for the reply Dave.

As many have said from way back, this Tour will bankrupt the game

I'd like to think that costs have been kept to a minimum and commercial and media deals more than cover this. 

The benefit of only a 4 test tour is that travel costs are kept down and fewer players are required. 

But I am not a fan of doing things on the cheap. That isn't a way to grow.

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Apart from @Harry Stottle is anybody else who treads these boards going out for the tour? Would be good to get an actual feel for what it's like in NZ leading up to this and/or at the game(s) itself. I know Harry went out Wednesday so presumably got there late yesterday/early today - hopefully he'll be online over the course of his time there. 

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2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Doesn't really matter if the RFL doesn't make anything from the tour (as long as they don't lose loads, of course).

Next year's Kangaroo tour and WC2021 will make money.

The money from the WC2021 goes to the IRL, not the RFL.

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1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

The money from the WC2021 goes to the IRL, not the RFL.

The IRL money comes back to the members; plus there is a profit share with the RFL. 

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9 hours ago, nadera78 said:

What did people expect? This whole concept has been a disaster from the very moment Nigel Wood pulled it out over a beer with a few old timers. It was always going to turn out this way.

 

What would you have done?

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Aren’t we damned if we do and damned if we don’t with this tour? People say where is the context, but what does that mean? The only internationals with any historic context and track record for crowds are England/GB v kangaroos, Kiwis v Kangaroos,  and, over here, NZ and Oz. We have a World Cup every 4 years, we will have a Kangaroo tour every 4 years. Which leaves 2 years. If we play NZ at home in one of those what do we do in this one???

It seems to me a sensible proposition to attempt something that gives PNG, NZ and Tonga proper games and our rep team a chance to tour. We didn’t know in advance what appetite there would be for these games. That’s for hindsight and post mortems. It might be there just isn’t the interest - there never has been in the past and there might not be in the future. In which case we can either keep doing it, in order to give the games context, or else ditch it. My vote would be for the confeds cup. 

Finally, this again shows what a fantastic market for our game we have in London, the next time somebody writes about league having failed down here. 

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5 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'd like to think that costs have been kept to a minimum and commercial and media deals more than cover this. 

The benefit of only a 4 test tour is that travel costs are kept down and fewer players are required. 

But I am not a fan of doing things on the cheap. That isn't a way to grow.

Agreed, you’d hope the promoters Duco would take a chunk of the hit too

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9 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

What would you have done?

I wouldn't have gone anywhere near the GB concept, for a very long list of reasons that have been discussed on here dozens of times over. And that's even if the Aussies had been interested. I just don't think it has any value beyond a nice looking shirt (and tbh even this year's one isn't great) and a nostalgic view of the early 1990s.

I'd have continued to focus on England, that's our brand. 

If 50% of the time, energy and resources wasted on this over the last 5 years had instead been spent on campaigning for a Confederations Cup then we'd be getting excited about watching the best 8 teams in the world playing for that right now. Instead, we have a half-arsed GB tour and a half-arsed Oceania Cup.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

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15 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

 

It seems to me a sensible proposition to attempt something that gives PNG, NZ and Tonga proper games and our rep team a chance to tour

Totally agree which makes you wonder why we have gone as GB

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1 hour ago, RP London said:

Totally agree which makes you wonder why we have gone as GB

I have no opinion either way on GB as against England but I can understand people getting cross about it. Setting that aside, if the confeds cup wasn’t a runner, this set of fixtures looked like a decent one to me in advance.

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Today's events are probably a huge boost for the tour. Tonga winning and the all blacks losing should give next week's crowd a big boost. I think Tonga could give Australia a great game, and NZ v GB had all the makings of a cracker. 

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11 minutes ago, ghost crayfish said:

Today's events are probably a huge boost for the tour. Tonga winning and the all blacks losing should give next week's crowd a big boost. I think Tonga could give Australia a great game, and NZ v GB had all the makings of a cracker. 

Lets hope so.

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1 hour ago, ghost crayfish said:

Today's events are probably a huge boost for the tour. Tonga winning and the all blacks losing should give next week's crowd a big boost. I think Tonga could give Australia a great game, and NZ v GB had all the makings of a cracker. 

It was all part of the masterplan... It will be good to be able to support the Tongans rather than wince when they hit our boys. 

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21 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Aren’t we damned if we do and damned if we don’t with this tour? People say where is the context, but what does that mean? The only internationals with any historic context and track record for crowds are England/GB v kangaroos, Kiwis v Kangaroos,  and, over here, NZ and Oz. We have a World Cup every 4 years, we will have a Kangaroo tour every 4 years. Which leaves 2 years. If we play NZ at home in one of those what do we do in this one???

It seems to me a sensible proposition to attempt something that gives PNG, NZ and Tonga proper games and our rep team a chance to tour. We didn’t know in advance what appetite there would be for these games. That’s for hindsight and post mortems. It might be there just isn’t the interest - there never has been in the past and there might not be in the future. In which case we can either keep doing it, in order to give the games context, or else ditch it. My vote would be for the confeds cup. 

Finally, this again shows what a fantastic market for our game we have in London, the next time somebody writes about league having failed down here. 

No there is no damned if you do damned if you don't just play as England and everything would've been ok

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On 25/10/2019 at 17:05, Exiled Wiganer said:

What would you have done?

In consecutive weeks..

England play in the world 9s 

England play Tonga

England play a meaningful  3 test series v NZ (or AUS in 4 years time)

England play PNG on the way home

 

It really wasn't rocket science..

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2 hours ago, roughyedspud said:

In consecutive weeks..

England play in the world 9s 

England play Tonga

England play a meaningful  3 test series v NZ (or AUS in 4 years time)

England play PNG on the way home

 

It really wasn't rocket science..

Yes, that is unrecognisable from this tour.

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2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Yes, that is unrecognisable from this tour.

Indeed. Crowds wouldn't have been bigger, but costs would have been.

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