Brian McDermott new Toronto Wolfpack coach

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Davo5 said:

I don't recall you ranting on when Beaumont and Leigh forced the increase in the salary cap or when Leigh and Beaumont then assembled a squad far more expensive and superior to anything else in the championship,but then again Leigh are not Canadian ,talk about hypocrisy.

Well one of us is wrong Davo, I remember Mr Parksider making noises regarding Mr B wanting equity with SL clubs on the Salery Cap issue, but then again being a Leigh fan it would resonate with me as I would take particular interest in comments relating to the club.

Quite rightly Mr B said how could any Championship club compete with those SL clubs who were allowed to spend twice as much when they were competing in the same competition, if he did that for personal reasons for the Leigh club as he himself could finance it he was in effect not doing it to compete with the other Championship clubs but to compete with those SL clubs they would meet in the qualifying 8's and that ultimately was to the benefit of all Championship clubs, especially the one's with rich owner's, Toronto more so than any other Champ club (Leigh being the exception) have benefited from Mr B's protestations to the RFL.

The question now should be, would it be ethical and fairer for the Championship to revert back to a more affordable Salery Cap for all the clubs it had prior to Mr B having as you term it "forced the increase", Championship clubs are only competeing against each other, no clubs from the SL are in the way causing any obstruction to promotion? It would make sense both financially and for a better more open competition not just being a foregone conclusion between a couple or three clubs!

It would even be to the benefit of those League 1 clubs who having gained promotion to the Championship they would have more chance of staying there.

So, it was not hypocracy as your "likes" and yourself suggest Davo, it could be very good for the Championship and League 1 as a whole, even West Cumbria, unless your heart is in Canada, that is!

 

[Exiled Wiganer]

McDermott was a great coach for London and involved himself deeply in local development. He was a great coach for USA and did what he could to encourage and field players from their competition. From the outside looking in, he won many trophies deep into his tenure at Leeds. I simply don’t subscribe to the players win/coaches lose viewpoint. He is the perfect choice for the Wolfpack, and will transform them as a team and a club. 

[The Parksider]

8 hours ago, RobertAM said:

Parky off his meds again..oh dear!

Can you tell me how old you are, and why you hide in your bedroom behind the security of your computer, and post this sort of garbage? If you haven't got the manners or intelligence to engage in the debate there are surely some games you can play on your computer? Or has your mum banned you from those??

14 hours ago, Davo5 said:

I don't recall you ranting on when Beaumont and Leigh forced the increase in the salary cap or when Leigh and Beaumont then assembled a squad far more expensive and superior to anything else in the championship,but then again Leigh are not Canadian ,talk about hypocrisy.

You are as usual trying to equate a 140 year old club, in a town rich in RL history, with two great amateur/junior clubs, who have in my memory won the Challenge cup and won the championship, with a fly by night pair of chancers who promised to provide some RL infrastructure in terms of players and commercial income in terms of a TV deal.

How many many more times will you and the others ignore the fact they delivered neither of these things with the obvious question about whether they ever intended to deliver these things or were just blagging their way into the RFL because one rich man - who refuses to support Canada RL as was set out in League weekly - wants his own RL club and refuses to buy one here which he clearly can given his machinations with London Skolars.

The massive difference between Mr. Beaumont and Mr. Argyle is Mr. B was prepared to put investment into the northern game here, rejuvinate a grand old club, and inspire the local junior game - in which he planned an academy. Argyle just wants a plaything, and he expects us all to travel a 6,000 mile round trip to support that, whilst he and his sidekick offer nothing at all in return. Not today not tommorrow but ever given the RL world cup is dead there and they don't support NA junior RL, they didn't want home grown players as Tex points out, they just want to muscle in here and drag away the players the game here develops.

Notwithstanding the glaring fact that Perez pointed out that TWP would be of no value to the game here on their own.

As I set out for you and others every North American club coming into SL is a nail in the coffin of the game here. London in and Widnes out is hardly good for Superleague as much as I love London. Leigh out from 11th. position when they would have (under a sensible system)  been able to open an academy, build on their 6,000 crowds and build up the Leigh.v.Wigan Derby games which like it or not are what our game is all about....was a disaster

What price Toronto in and Salford out next. Salford by their own admission no longer have a rich owner, and with O'Connor and Beaumont walking as I said in a previous thread professional RL in the old boundaries of Lancashire will recede to a small triangle of land between Wigan, St. Helens and Warrington. Do you not get it that if the game collapses here on the M62 and Argyle doesn't build the game there (which he clearly is not doing) we are dead. 

And so those who think TWP are important to the game really do need to set out exactly why? Please tell me, please explain how?

Just calling me names, and encouraging keyboard idiots to cheer you on is in no way debate? 

[Exiled Wiganer]

1) ... has your mum banned you...

2) ... fly by night pair of chancers ...

3) ... with his machinations ... just wants a plaything 

4) ... encouraging keyboard idiots ...

We will of course have no name calling here. It could be an elaborate joke of course. Or trolling. Or, indeed, withdrawal symptoms. 

[John WP Fan]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well one of us is wrong Davo, I remember Mr Parksider making noises regarding Mr B wanting equity with SL clubs on the Salery Cap issue, but then again being a Leigh fan it would resonate with me as I would take particular interest in comments relating to the club.

Quite rightly Mr B said how could any Championship club compete with those SL clubs who were allowed to spend twice as much when they were competing in the same competition, if he did that for personal reasons for the Leigh club as he himself could finance it he was in effect not doing it to compete with the other Championship clubs but to compete with those SL clubs they would meet in the qualifying 8's and that ultimately was to the benefit of all Championship clubs, especially the one's with rich owner's, Toronto more so than any other Champ club (Leigh being the exception) have benefited from Mr B's protestations to the RFL.

The question now should be, would it be ethical and fairer for the Championship to revert back to a more affordable Salery Cap for all the clubs it had prior to Mr B having as you term it "forced the increase", Championship clubs are only competeing against each other, no clubs from the SL are in the way causing any obstruction to promotion? It would make sense both financially and for a better more open competition not just being a foregone conclusion between a couple or three clubs!

It would even be to the benefit of those League 1 clubs who having gained promotion to the Championship they would have more chance of staying there.

So, it was not hypocracy as your "likes" and yourself suggest Davo, it could be very good for the Championship and League 1 as a whole, even West Cumbria, unless your heart is in Canada, that is!

 

I'll  admit I tossed my like in there without myself knowing the history (before my time). Thanks for setting the record straight and offering a fair and different perspective on this.

My "like" was more about exhaustion from Mr Parksider's endless repetitive tirades that focus on his favourite few points while failing to see the wider picture (IMHO).

As for the salary cap issue, of course I want it to remain as it is, so that the path from the Championship to SL is a smooth one, and does not require a team to be completely remade after promotion. Of course there is a huge range of budgets in the Championship which some perceive as "unfair". That league will continue to have issues as long as full-time, fully-funded, fully-professional teams are competing against part-time, barely solvent clubs. Last year it was two very disparate leagues with a huge chasm between 6th and 7th place, mainly because of that contrast.

[Angelic Cynic]

6 hours ago, The Parksider said:

The massive difference between Mr. Beaumont and Mr. Argyle is Mr. B was prepared to put investment into the northern game here, rejuvinate a grand old club, and inspire the local junior game - in which he planned an academy. Argyle just wants a plaything, and he expects us all to travel a 6,000 mile round trip to support that, whilst he and his sidekick offer nothing at all in return. Not today not tommorrow but ever given the RL world cup is dead there and they don't support NA junior RL, they didn't want home grown players as Tex points out, they just want to muscle in here and drag away the players the game here develops.

 

   You do know Beaumont has been in charge at Leigh far longer than Toronto Wolfpack have been in existence,don't you?

    As I type this I don't think the boom and bust club have been really rejuvenated.

     Beaumont,far from planning an academy,achieved this - http://www.totalrl.com/beaumont-reveals-long-term-plans-reserve-academy-rugby-leigh/

     Until Micky Higham was returned to the club,I don't recall too may home grown players at Leigh for the 2018 campaign.

    Trying to veer back on thread - It is far more interesting having Brian McDermott listen to a question,consider it and give a full answer,rather than just do the usual cliched - sick as a parrot - over the moon - type of answer after a defeat or a victory.

[Wakefield Ram]

6 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

I'll  admit I tossed my like in there without myself knowing the history (before my time). Thanks for setting the record straight and offering a fair and different perspective on this.

My "like" was more about exhaustion from Mr Parksider's endless repetitive tirades that focus on his favourite few points while failing to see the wider picture (IMHO).

As for the salary cap issue, of course I want it to remain as it is, so that the path from the Championship to SL is a smooth one, and does not require a team to be completely remade after promotion. Of course there is a huge range of budgets in the Championship which some perceive as "unfair". That league will continue to have issues as long as full-time, fully-funded, fully-professional teams are competing against part-time, barely solvent clubs. Last year it was two very disparate leagues with a huge chasm between 6th and 7th place, mainly because of that contrast.

The only fully funded sides were ones with sugar daddies. This model is not sustainable.

[RobertAM]

Parksider, that's the whole point - you don't debate! Instead you rant and I'm old enough to know the difference.  You will convince me that your arguments have merit when fans in number are rocking up week in and week out to support the storied old clubs (many of which I remember from my childhood) but endlessly scorning those who are trying to ignite enthusiasm and fan interest on another continent in an effort to grow the game isn't helping the cause rather it's simply downplaying the efforts of people like David Argyle who are putting their money where their mouth is. I, along with the THOUSANDS of WP fans (9,266 at the Broncos-Wolfpack MPG!!) both new and old attend all home games, some of us (admittedly not yet in the hundreds never mind thousands) also attended "away" games  in 2018 and will do so in 2019. I'll bet, when, not if, the Wolfpack get into Superleague or, as is possible, this year reach the Challenge cup final we will be supporting them in large numbers, I know I'll be there and in that vein I'd like to know what you are doing to put bums in seats..tell us..please....

[Harry Stottle]

6 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

I'll  admit I tossed my like in there without myself knowing the history (before my time). Thanks for setting the record straight and offering a fair and different perspective on this.

My "like" was more about exhaustion from Mr Parksider's endless repetitive tirades that focus on his favourite few points while failing to see the wider picture (IMHO).

As for the salary cap issue, of course I want it to remain as it is, so that the path from the Championship to SL is a smooth one, and does not require a team to be completely remade after promotion. Of course there is a huge range of budgets in the Championship which some perceive as "unfair". That league will continue to have issues as long as full-time, fully-funded, fully-professional teams are competing against part-time, barely solvent clubs. Last year it was two very disparate leagues with a huge chasm between 6th and 7th place, mainly because of that contrast.

Happy to be of help John,

.............of course you would want the existing SC to continue I can fully understand that, you also realise that should a cap in the Champonship be introduced to "level" out the field amongst the competing teams the then successful promoted club would be required to rebuild their team to just compete in SL.

This was a problem prior to the 8's system coming into being, because of the timing of the Championship "Grand Final" being the penultimate weekend of the season and that game producing the promoted club who having then secured promotion could only then begin to make a recruitment drive because they were sure of having aquired the available finances, and by that time being so late in the season it could be that a lot of the available talent had already commited to other clubs for the following season.

You stop before saying that the Championship was a shambles last season, if you had I would have agreed with you, save for TWP nearly sliping up at Rochdale and Barrow and Leigh really falling down also at Barrow, there was a distinct dividing line straight in the middle of the 12 competeing clubs, in fact 2 divisions, I have no reason to believe it could be anything other than a 7 plus 7 division this coming season.

A Question for you John, save for your loyalties to the Wolfpack do you consider it is a worthwhile situation for the Championship to be in or should it be considered to lower the Cap to make the division more competitive?

[Exiled Wiganer]

3 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

The only fully funded sides were ones with sugar daddies. This model is not sustainable.

That doesn’t make sense in a sporting context. There is well over 100 years evidence to show that sugar daddies back up the majority of clubs for the vast majority of time and that there are pretty much no sporting clubs who would never have gone bust without at one time or another without sugar daddy support.

[Damien]

10 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

The only fully funded sides were ones with sugar daddies. This model is not sustainable.

Well that model is often sustainable and has been the case in many sports, including Rugby League. The trouble is that too often in Rugby League the so called sugar daddies at lower division clubs have been far from that and have often not actually put anything into the club and have just saddled it with debt.

Also if what you say is the case then so be it, it is not the fault of well funded and well run clubs if others cannot do likewise. The clubs which are better financed and have higher ambitions though certainly should not be pegged back just to suit clubs which in many respects are far from professional anyway and can't even field a squad if 17 on matchday. Clubs should always cut their cloth accordingly and if that means staying part time then they should. If they can do more than that then they should also be allowed to as well.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Well that model is often sustainable and has been the case in many sports, including Rugby League. The trouble is that too often in Rugby League the so called sugar daddies at lower division clubs have been far from that and have often not actually put anything into the club and have just saddled it with debt.

Also if what you say is the case then so be it, it is not the fault of well funded and well run clubs if others cannot do likewise. The clubs which are better financed and have higher ambitions though certainly should not be pegged back just to suit clubs which in many respects are far from professional anyway and can't even field a squad if 17 on matchday. Clubs should always cut their cloth accordingly and if that means staying part time then they should. If they can do more than that then they should also be allowed to as well.

Often cause more problems as clubs that need to be more community based and bring people in are handicapped by having a Super Ego running a club.

When they need fresh ideas, volunteers and sensible business like management.

 

[The Parksider]

13 hours ago, RobertAM said:

Parksider, that's the whole point - you don't debate!   You will convince me that your arguments have merit when fans in number are rocking up week in and week out to support the storied old clubs.

scorning those who are trying to ignite enthusiasm and fan interest on another continent in an effort to grow the game isn't helping the cause rather it's simply downplaying the efforts of people like David Argyle who are putting their money where their mouth is. I, along with the THOUSANDS of WP fans (9,266 at the Broncos-Wolfpack MPG!!) 

I'd like to know what you are doing to put bums in seats..tell us..please....

For over two years I have been trying to get an answer from TWP fans on the actual debate. TWP offered us a new player pool of grid iron converts to League, and a massive TV deal.  Perez sat in front of the TV cameras and made that exact pitch, it was not about TWP crowds at all.

But this trick you play has been played literally 100 times.You switch the criteria they gained entry to the RFL on,  to something completely different and claim they are an assett to the game here on that switched false criteria.

One of the very first things SL said about the alleged fan numbers in Toronto (and there has been enough threads on that major debate alleging massaged figures) is that like Catalans very few are going to come here and swell any crowds. When Wigan played Leigh 15,000 rocked up and when Leigh played Saints 9,000 were there. This is very very real money that Leigh generated for the game here, very very real interest.

Having seen a rather poor TWP team at Leeds in the qualifiers, and a dozen fans it's clear TWP offer the game here nothing. Not even "Glamour" as the crowd were not stupid enough to think Leeds were playing a Canadian side.

20 hours ago, John WP Fan said:

My "like" was more about exhaustion from Mr Parksider's endless repetitive tirades that focus on his favourite few points while failing to see the wider picture (IMHO).

So what's the "Wider picture"? Was it the Transatlantic league and $$Billion dollar TV deal Perez promised or was it the expanded player pool full of grid iron converts??. Please actually tell me your opinion??

The only reason I ever repeat these false promises of Argyle and Perez isn't for your benefit or for posters who still blindly swallow the American dream, It's a fair response to the almost daily grind of multi-repetitions of aren't TWP Glamorous and a breath of fresh air, and (as above) the saviour of Rugby league here, because of their crowds (we never see here).

My concern is a good number of fans come along on here and actually swallow this rubbish, but thankfully more and more posters are waking up to the reality. I'm making progress.

DAMIEN The players were to be converted from grid iron and trained up to play RL in the first season, it is the THIRD season coming up now and no Canadian players, and what few there were TWP sacked, and  TWP do not support Canada RL. ALSO Montreal were supposed to start this coming season. Major progress was promised and was supposed to have happened by now.....instead TWP's two major promises have been reneged on. Deal with it man....

[Damien]

It still amazes me what a very, very small minority of people expect from a club that has only played 2 seasons. 

[Harry Stottle]

39 minutes ago, Damien said:

It still amazes me what a very, very small minority of people expect from a club that has only played 2 seasons. 

Did you buy into the manifesto of Mr Perez? 

I mention him because he was the only person we knew and heard from of the Canadian application to join the RFL, he also happened to be the spokesman, spin doctor and we are led to believe developer of the TWP.

Irrespective of what you say about what a small minority of people expect to happen in *2 seasons, through documented evidence in script and also in filmed interviews Mr Perez catagorically stated that those contrbutions Mr Parksider highlights would be delivered and would flourish very quickly.

I am going to give Mr Perez some leeway here, maybe, just maybe his vision may have been shackled by others in the TWP organisation and he decided other than preside over something that stopped him delivering his vision he got on his bike. Perhaps he set his sights to high, but pray tell what has Mr Parksider asks is the Canadian expierience bringing to the game in the UK, had the picture that Mr Perez sold to the RFL and us the fans come to fruition it would have been great, bob on, superb, the fact is nothing has been delivered.

* you say in 2 seasons, yes that is how long the team as been playing, but in fact the TWP concept has been about much longer, given the shortest possible timescale I know of 4 years at least, that is a year of Mr Perez selling it to RFL, a full years preperation being given the "go ahead" (Paul Rowley gave up the Leigh job in Jan 2016, fully knowing he was joining the TWP a couple of months later) and then these last 2 seasons actually playing.

If all those who champion TWP over here, are not concerned that all they are likely to bring to the spread of the game for a long time in the future is just a loyal following of supporters in their homeland, and contrbute nothing to the 'expansion of the game' in terms of participation, as seems to be the will of it's owner, by not helping to develop an infrastructure and putting in place an ongoing system to convert those 1000's of befallen ready made athlete's of American Football, then that amazes me.

 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, The Parksider said:

For over two years I have been trying to get an answer from TWP fans on the actual debate. TWP offered us a new player pool of grid iron converts to League, and a massive TV deal.  Perez sat in front of the TV cameras and made that exact pitch, it was not about TWP crowds at all.

But this trick you play has been played literally 100 times.You switch the criteria they gained entry to the RFL on,  to something completely different and claim they are an assett to the game here on that switched false criteria.

One of the very first things SL said about the alleged fan numbers in Toronto (and there has been enough threads on that major debate alleging massaged figures) is that like Catalans very few are going to come here and swell any crowds. When Wigan played Leigh 15,000 rocked up and when Leigh played Saints 9,000 were there. This is very very real money that Leigh generated for the game here, very very real interest.

Having seen a rather poor TWP team at Leeds in the qualifiers, and a dozen fans it's clear TWP offer the game here nothing. Not even "Glamour" as the crowd were not stupid enough to think Leeds were playing a Canadian side.

So what's the "Wider picture"? Was it the Transatlantic league and $$Billion dollar TV deal Perez promised or was it the expanded player pool full of grid iron converts??. Please actually tell me your opinion??

The only reason I ever repeat these false promises of Argyle and Perez isn't for your benefit or for posters who still blindly swallow the American dream, It's a fair response to the almost daily grind of multi-repetitions of aren't TWP Glamorous and a breath of fresh air, and (as above) the saviour of Rugby league here, because of their crowds (we never see here).

My concern is a good number of fans come along on here and actually swallow this rubbish, but thankfully more and more posters are waking up to the reality. I'm making progress.

DAMIEN The players were to be converted from grid iron and trained up to play RL in the first season, it is the THIRD season coming up now and no Canadian players, and what few there were TWP sacked, and  TWP do not support Canada RL. ALSO Montreal were supposed to start this coming season. Major progress was promised and was supposed to have happened by now.....instead TWP's two major promises have been reneged on. Deal with it man....

Hunslet news:- Parksiders sign Halafihi from Bradford.

                           Hunslet capture Crusaders star Bloomfield.

                            Hunslet sign Ben Heston from Halifax.

Criticism of a club just 2 years on is a bit rich when another, estimated 1883 still signing out of area players despite being in a hot bed of RL.  

Bye the way, I see they’re also signing Danny Nicklaus - another from Hulls academy

 

 

[Kayakman]

I just don't know how to handle all of this negativity.  Its got to be overflow from the Brexit panic.

[John WP Fan]

8 hours ago, The Parksider said:

For over two years I have been trying to get an answer from TWP fans on the actual debate. TWP offered us a new player pool of grid iron converts to League, and a massive TV deal.  Perez sat in front of the TV cameras and made that exact pitch, it was not about TWP crowds at all.

I think I have responded to these points before, but I'll do it again. And by the way, I am not completely denying the points you make, but I do have a vastly different outlook.

• Grid-iron converts: initially it seemed like we might get a few, but in the end this was largely PR via the Last Tackle show. My guess is that the most promising candidates found out how they would be paid in the RFL and found something more lucrative.
• TV deal: I think everyone agrees this doesn't become valuable until there are more NA teams involved. In the meantime TWP are getting more eyeballs on the game around the world.
• What the Wolfpack bring:
•     They are succeeding in bringing in thousands of new fans in Toronto. This will continue to grow.
•     They have attracted larger crowds (often record crowds) almost everywhere they have played in the UK. This may diminish as the novelty wears off, or it may continue if TWP continue to be an interesting team to watch and one other team's fans really want to beat. Let's check in after another few years, including one or two in SL.
•     They are inspiring other teams to step up their marketing efforts to sell the game better.
• I do agree they could be doing more to develop players, both in NA and the UK. I hope to see more tangible signs of that this season. But this was always going to be a very long-term effort. I will point again to how the NHL expanded as the example that makes sense here, putting teams in non-hockey cities and a generation later seeing great players develop in those places.
• Once again I will say that "expansion" means adding teams, growing the pool of players, and bringing more money into the game. It does not mean replacing heartland teams with NA teams and destroying the game in the UK as you fear. It's clear that some of those teams are not sustainable as it is, and some chickens are coming home to roost. I think that has little or nothing to do with TWP. 
• I have heard the argument that there are not enough players to stock more teams in SL. Expand the league, create more jobs, invest in player development (and that should be a condition imposed on new teams buying in) and the players will come. There will be a period where the quality drops a bit. That is worth going through to get to the other side. It is also important to have some mechanisms to encourage some level of parity across the league, so that the same rich teams do not win all the time (salary cap and floor, draft of amateur/new players). We have seen this over the past 50 years in the NHL and it works.

I do not think the TWP project is without flaws. They have made some mistakes, and some of the criticism is fair. But overall I think they have been good for the game, and continued expansion will do great things both in NA and in the UK. But yes, there will be disruption as well.

[John WP Fan]

18 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

You stop before saying that the Championship was a shambles last season, if you had I would have agreed with you, save for TWP nearly sliping up at Rochdale and Barrow and Leigh really falling down also at Barrow, there was a distinct dividing line straight in the middle of the 12 competeing clubs, in fact 2 divisions, I have no reason to believe it could be anything other than a 7 plus 7 division this coming season.

A Question for you John, save for your loyalties to the Wolfpack do you consider it is a worthwhile situation for the Championship to be in or should it be considered to lower the Cap to make the division more competitive?

Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I did say the Championship was two distinct leagues last year.  I didn't use the word "shambles", but that's not an inappropriate word. I agree a lower salary cap would make that league more evenly competitive, obviously.

I really do not understand full-time teams competing against part-time teams. I think that one or the other should be a criteria of each league. I would have moved 4 teams up to SL and left the Championship as a part-time feeder league.

I also do not understand how contracts work. In every other professional sport I have seen, there are deadlines well before the end of the regular season, after which no player movement is allowed until a week or two after the championship is decided. Contracts in the RFL are a complete mystery to me, and the movement seems chaotic and random, and (brace yourself) not really very professional.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, John WP Fan said:

I think I have responded to these points before, but I'll do it again. And by the way, I am not completely denying the points you make, but I do have a vastly different outlook.

• Grid-iron converts: initially seems like we might get a few, but in the end this was largely PR via the Last Tackle show. My guess is that the most promising candidates found out how they would be paid in the RFL and found something more lucrative.
• TV deal: I think everyone agrees this doesn't become valuable until there are more NA teams involved. In the meantime TWP are getting more eyeballs on the game around the world.
• What the Wolfpack bring:
•     They are succeeding in bringing in thousands of new fans in Toronto. This will continue to grow.
•     They have attracted larger crowds (often record crowds) almost everywhere they have played in the UK. This may diminish as the novelty wears off, or it may continue if TWP continue to be an interesting team to watch and one other team's fans really want to beat. Let's check in after another few years, including one or two in SL.
•     They are inspiring other teams to step up their marketing efforts to sell the game better.
• I do agree they could be doing more to develop players, both in NA and the UK. I hope to see more tangible signs of that this season. But this was always going to be a very long-term effort. I will point again to how the NHL expanded as the example that makes sense here, putting teams in non-hockey cities and a generation later seeing great players develop in those places.
• Once again I will say that "expansion" means adding teams, growing the pool of players, and bringing more money into the game. It does not mean replacing heartland teams with NA teams and destroying the game in the UK as you fear. It's clear that some of those teams are not sustainable as it is, and some chickens are coming home to roost. I think that has little or nothing to do with TWP. 
• I have heard the argument that there are not enough players to stock more teams in SL. Expand the league, create more jobs, invest in player development (and that should be a condition imposed on new teams buying in) and the players will come. There will be a period where the quality drops a bit. That is worth going through to get to the other side. It is also important to have some mechanisms to encourage some level of parity across the league, so that the same rich teams do not win all the time (salary cap and floor, draft of amateur/new players). We have seen this over the past 50 years in the NHL and it works.

I do not think the TWP project is without flaws. They have made some mistakes, and some of the criticism is fair. But overall I think they have been good for the game, and continued expansion will do great things both in NA and in the UK. But yes, there will be disruption as well.

No matter what you answer, you will always get the same questions.  But, you pay to learn, so keep answering!

 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

3 hours ago, Kayakman said:

I just don't know how to handle all of this negativity.  Its got to be overflow from the Brexit panic.

Just typical RL forum chatter - which doesn't reflect the views of most of the game's supporters (apart from my posts, of course!),

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

10 hours ago, The Parksider said:

For over two years I have been trying to get an answer from TWP fans on the actual debate. TWP offered us a new player pool of grid iron converts to League, and a massive TV deal.  Perez sat in front of the TV cameras and made that exact pitch, it was not about TWP crowds at all.

But this trick you play has been played literally 100 times.You switch the criteria they gained entry to the RFL on,  to something completely different and claim they are an assett to the game here on that switched false criteria.

One of the very first things SL said about the alleged fan numbers in Toronto (and there has been enough threads on that major debate alleging massaged figures) is that like Catalans very few are going to come here and swell any crowds. When Wigan played Leigh 15,000 rocked up and when Leigh played Saints 9,000 were there. This is very very real money that Leigh generated for the game here, very very real interest.

Having seen a rather poor TWP team at Leeds in the qualifiers, and a dozen fans it's clear TWP offer the game here nothing. Not even "Glamour" as the crowd were not stupid enough to think Leeds were playing a Canadian side.

So what's the "Wider picture"? Was it the Transatlantic league and $$Billion dollar TV deal Perez promised or was it the expanded player pool full of grid iron converts??. Please actually tell me your opinion??

The only reason I ever repeat these false promises of Argyle and Perez isn't for your benefit or for posters who still blindly swallow the American dream, It's a fair response to the almost daily grind of multi-repetitions of aren't TWP Glamorous and a breath of fresh air, and (as above) the saviour of Rugby league here, because of their crowds (we never see here).

My concern is a good number of fans come along on here and actually swallow this rubbish, but thankfully more and more posters are waking up to the reality. I'm making progress.

DAMIEN The players were to be converted from grid iron and trained up to play RL in the first season, it is the THIRD season coming up now and no Canadian players, and what few there were TWP sacked, and  TWP do not support Canada RL. ALSO Montreal were supposed to start this coming season. Major progress was promised and was supposed to have happened by now.....instead TWP's two major promises have been reneged on. Deal with it man....

But this has been my issue.

The conversion of American Footballers was just a PR pitch, nobody at any point thought that would seriously happen.

Again with full houses and TV deals.

However Canada has a lot of potential.  

What we need to do stop presenting spin as facts.

Look at the real stories about how Canada can create Rugby League players.

As I have said before they beat England at u19s in Glasgow with a team of union players.

The country has talent lets forget the glamour and concentrate on the real opportunities that will be their if someone like McDermott can work with Canada Rugby League and create a foundation and academy system.

Give someone like Monte Gaddis a job work with schools his energy would real be ideal for that job.

 

[Kayakman]

1 hour ago, TheLegendOfTexEvans said:

But this has been my issue.

The conversion of American Footballers was just a PR pitch, nobody at any point thought that would seriously happen.

Again with full houses and TV deals.

However Canada has a lot of potential.  

What we need to do stop presenting spin as facts.

Look at the real stories about how Canada can create Rugby League players.

As I have said before they beat England at u19s in Glasgow with a team of union players.

The country has talent lets forget the glamour and concentrate on the real opportunities that will be their if someone like McDermott can work with Canada Rugby League and create a foundation and academy system.

Give someone like Monte Gaddis a job work with schools his energy would real be ideal for that job.

 

I like your new views and support for the Wolfpack Legend....coming along nicely.

[TheLegendOfTexEvans]

25 minutes ago, Kayakman said:

I like your new views and support for the Wolfpack Legend....coming along nicely.

As I say Canada like Ireland has real talent to tap into.

 

[audois]

For late comers Professor Tony Collins take on Canada