If we brought back licensing....

[bamfordsbeans]

After 23 years of SL and all the false promises we are no nearer getting the elite league that most of us hoped for when the sport was in the unique position of hitting the national headlines for all the right reasons.

The initial enthusiasm from that night in Paris soon wore off and whilst few would argue there has been progress over the years,most of it has been slow and possibly at the expense of other parts of the game.

Until we have more than 6 or 7 candidates Idon't see licensing as a realistic proposition.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

The problem last time round was a lack of transparency in the selection process and a nasty smell of possible fix about the whole thing. If it was seen to be open and fair it'd be a good idea. An example here is the Welsh Premier League in soccer who have, while their system's been in place, thrown out defending champions (Rhyl) and at the end of last season Bangor City, one of their best supported sides who have a virtually new stadium.

[Maxi mum]

16 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Promotion and relegation is working brilliantly. Just ask Widnes, Leigh, bradford, Sheffield etc etc etc

Sheffield didn’t actually go bust. There was a shortfall in that an amount was owed but crowd funding raised 20k and that amount was paid. The decision to go full time and a backer pulling out was the cause. Sheffield were promoted from the bottom tier quite some time ago and it worked pretty well.

 

[Buderus]

For mine 

Leeds

Wigan 

St Helens

Warrington 

Hull FC

Catalans

Bradford (fans) 

London (location)

Toulouse (location)

Toronto (money plus expansion) 

Newcastle (expansion)

1 (or multiple if bigger comp) of 

Castleford/Hull KR/Wakefield/Huddersfield/Salford/York/Featherstone etc 

[Marty Funkhouser]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And yet this weekend Sky will show the Hurricanes v Brumbies and not Halifax v Swinton, They will show Racing 92 v La Rochelle but not Rochdale v Barrow.

Sky will show Super Rugby from Australia, NZ, South Africa, Japan and Argentina, they will show the Top 14 from France, they will show the Mitre 10 from NZ and the Currie Cup from South Africa, they will show the NRL from Australia and NZ and they will show Super League from France, they will show the championship from Canada.

I don't really know the exact make up of the WORLD but I bet those places on the whole aren't English, or based in places like the north. I also guess that outside the north those who watch on sky tv probably have no affinity with those places, maybe they haven't just moved away. So I would guess primarily SKY will want to show what people in England want to watch and that seems to me to be Rugby from anywhere. Chuck out useless clubs and watch nothing happen.

Would you like to post the viewing figures of all these must - watch spectacles that form  the " SKY will want to show what people in England want to watch" line...?

 

 

[hrtbps]

They should offer a SL license to whoever wins the Championship.

[DEANO]

Ok. Pull up the drawbridge but let it be known there is no lifeline in the championship and league 1 for any clubs that go t@ts up as they surely will. You can’t cast aside the other 2 divisions and then use them at your convenience to regroup

[Harry Stottle]

37 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Ok. Pull up the drawbridge but let it be known there is no lifeline in the championship and league 1 for any clubs that go t@ts up as they surely will. You can’t cast aside the other 2 divisions and then use them at your convenience to regroup

There are many idiots who believe that there will be no consequence in setting RL below SL adrift, and the same one's bang the drum for new clubs across the Atlantic to raid the meagre resources we already have in supplying players.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

There are many idiots who believe that there will be no consequence in setting RL below SL adrift, and the same one's bang the drum for new clubs across the Atlantic to raid the meagre resources we already have in supplying players.

How many players have the lower leagues produced themselves? And I’m not having players that have gone backwards to go forwards. Legitimate players through their system. 

What do they offer? Little to nothing. Poor crowds, no player development pathways from within their system, little ambition on the whole to become an elite side, poor facilities on the whole and nothing commercial.

It’s your amateur clubs that are the ones supplying players. It’s the Wigan St Pats, Siddal’s, East Leeds’ of this world that are producing players for the game, not Hunslet, Keighley or Dewsbury. They’re the real deserving parties of financial help from the governing body of the game, not some of the teams below Super League. 

[yipyee]

4 hours ago, bamfordsbeans said:

After 23 years of SL and all the false promises we are no nearer getting the elite league that most of us hoped for when the sport was in the unique position of hitting the national headlines for all the right reasons.

The initial enthusiasm from that night in Paris soon wore off and whilst few would argue there has been progress over the years,most of it has been slow and possibly at the expense of other parts of the game.

Until we have more than 6 or 7 candidates Idon't see licensing as a realistic proposition.

Really??

So a semi pro league with one FT team who bought all the best players to now having 17 FT teams 

Having a French elite club ticks another box.

Wales came and went but the legacy of that team is still there!

The initial plan was for clubs to merge and when we look at the teams/areas struggling low and behold it's where the said teams didn't merge.. if they did then SL would be in a very good place with 14 truly super teams!

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Really??

So a semi pro league with one FT team who bought all the best players to now having 17 FT teams

Having a French elite club ticks another box.

Wales came and went but the legacy of that team is still there!

The initial plan was for clubs to merge and when we look at the teams/areas struggling low and behold it's where the said teams didn't merge.. if they did then SL would be in a very good place with 14 truly super teams!

Says the fan of a club not asked to merge , i am guessing ?

[GUBRATS]

17 minutes ago, Oliver Clothesoff said:

How many players have the lower leagues produced themselves? And I’m not having players that have gone backwards to go forwards. Legitimate players through their system.

What do they offer? Little to nothing. Poor crowds, no player development pathways from within their system, little ambition on the whole to become an elite side, poor facilities on the whole and nothing commercial.

It’s your amateur clubs that are the ones supplying players. It’s the Wigan St Pats, Siddal’s, East Leeds’ of this world that are producing players for the game, not Hunslet, Keighley or Dewsbury. They’re the real deserving parties of financial help from the governing body of the game, not some of the teams below Super League.

Its been done to death that it just isnt viable to have every club in the 3 tiers running academies , you would end up with a situation where the majority of clubs would be decimating their local amatuer clubs u15-17s teams just to put together a squad in the vain hope that they might get one or two late developers every ten years , so you want Leigh or Dewsbury to take 100s of of kids from community clubs for basically nothing

The number of academies we currently have is about right for the number of players we need to produce , the lower tier clubs should be doing more [ and they should have to prove they are doing it ] to increase participation levels through local schools and amateur clubs , once that is done [ and proven ] then you can look at more ' finishing schools ' , although even then the bigger clubs will most likely always get the best juniors to work with , making it virtually impossible for any lower tier club to produce anybody but the odd player no matter how hard they try or how much money they put into it

And you know it

[GUBRATS]

If we brought back licencing [ and we will ] it will result in the same mess we had last time , with clubs at the bottom of SL still not progressing and those locked out losing support making it less likely they would be in a position to replace anybody struggling at the bottom of SL

Cant wait

[tuutaisrambo]

4 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

The problem last time round was a lack of transparency in the selection process and a nasty smell of possible fix about the whole thing. If it was seen to be open and fair it'd be a good idea. An example here is the Welsh Premier League in soccer who have, while their system's been in place, thrown out defending champions (Rhyl) and at the end of last season Bangor City, one of their best supported sides who have a virtually new stadium.

There you go...........RL is run by the Clubs and turkeys won't vote for christmas.

If rugby league had an all powerful independent ruling body that would for example....enforce mergers or kick out wigan for cheating the salary cap then MAYBE a proper elite league could be made.

Welsh rugby union are making changes to their domestic league again and upsetting large sets of fans for the greater long term good at the moment..........but it is a ruling independent body doing it...........not a few bigger clubs telling the smaller clubs to do one.

 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, tuutaisrambo said:

There you go...........RL is run by the Clubs and turkeys won't vote for christmas.

If rugby league had an all powerful independent ruling body that would for example....enforce mergers or kick out wigan for cheating the salary cap then MAYBE a proper elite league could be made.

Welsh rugby union are making changes to their domestic league again and upsetting large sets of fans for the greater long term good at the moment..........but it is a ruling independent body doing it...........not a few bigger clubs telling the smaller clubs to do one.

 

Tell me how exactly you ' enforce ' the merger of two clubs ?

[RP London]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Tell me how exactly you ' enforce ' the merger of two clubs ?

simple.. ask Hull, Gateshead, Huddersfield and Sheffield for a start.. 

Basically though you give a nice incentive and say "neither of you are getting in separately, but if you join together here is your license".

[tuutaisrambo]

Ask the WRU

I guess technically you can't but that is my point.........Rugby league has no ruling body with the power to tell clubs they are out if they don't merge.......the clubs are in charge.

Looking at the likes of widnes wakefield and salford........our elite level isn't very elite.

If a new Elite league was made up of say...leeds wigan warrington st helens and hull and then 7 brand new franchises all well funded and backed to a similar standard as those i don't think anyone would argue with a closed off Super league.

[Marty Funkhouser]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Well some of them got 0 because they werent shown, others were shown on both main event and sky sports action but werent in the top 20 watched programmes on main event so we can't see those figures without paying.

What i can tell is that last week more than 200k, the 9th best viewed programme on Main event, and the best viewed programme on Action was Wigan vs Sydney Roosters.

I can also tell you that the third best viewed programme on Sky sports action the week before was Les Catalans v Huddersfield. Who got 98k.

Now, Im not sure, but last time i check, neither Perpignan nor Sydney were in the north of England.

"Sky will show the Hurricanes v Brumbies and not Halifax v Swinton, They will show Racing 92 v La Rochelle but not Rochdale v Barrow.

Sky will show Super Rugby from Australia, NZ, South Africa, Japan and Argentina, they will show the Top 14 from France, they will show the Mitre 10 from NZ and the Currie Cup from South Africa"

These or previous like it...you say Sky are showing what the British Public want to see...which you say is definitely not Champs RL...figures to back it up...?

Or are Sky actually showing low/zero cost schedule fillers watched by virtually no-one in TV audience terms...

With regards the French and Canadian teams we RL fans are very fortunate that Catalans and Toronto have little to no cost to SKY, Bein Sports and Mr Argyle are happy to give it away, and it fits in with an existing contracted agreement. Had Sky been asked for big (or some) bucks to cover either, neither would be on.

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

If we brought back licencing [ and we will ] it will result in the same mess we had last time , with clubs at the bottom of SL still not progressing and those locked out losing support making it less likely they would be in a position to replace anybody struggling at the bottom of SL

Cant wait

Only if it's ran badly, there should never have been 14 clubs, Wakefield should have been relegated when they didnt meet criteria even if that left 13 clubs.

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Says the fan of a club not asked to merge , i am guessing ?

Cumbria is a mess, 

The fans said they would not watch a combined team. As it happens the fans aren't watching them as seperate entities! 

Successful amateur clubs,

An academy was ran by the RFL

2 clubs slowly dieing

Now where would Cumbria RL be if they combined??

Probably in a new stadia with a successful academy and good links to amateur clubs all over Cumbria.

Manchester has scarily similar problems with their clubs.

Calder not too bad, but only Cas are producing players and there is a constant deadlock with stadia due to the council bot supporting any bids as tbey dont want to appear biased.

Widnes and Leigh fight on seperatly but in reality they have lost the arm wrestle in their areas and the best kids don't sign for their academy's the fan numbers will never be there to support FT clubs and the chances are they will eventually end us going the way of Bramley.

Anyone who is against mergers need look no further than the Catalan merger and how it has transformed RL in that heartland of the game!

 

 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

simple.. ask Hull, Gateshead, Huddersfield and Sheffield for a start..

Basically though you give a nice incentive and say "neither of you are getting in separately, but if you join together here is your license".

And ?

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Tell me how exactly you ' enforce ' the merger of two clubs ?

Tell them they won't get a licence as seperate entities,

This technically was done with the  sheffield hudds and gateshead hull mergers.

[SSoutherner]

2 x 10 - split East / West conferences (Canadian/US teams in West, French in east) to add to current top flight clubs

3 yr licence to start in 18mths to 2 yrs to give time for clubs to decide rationally if they want to apply or not

Ground requirments to be in place before licence starts and easily met criteria stipulated up front in the invitation to apply information

Mandated Junior/Academy pathway (even if that is via affiliated feeder clubs) - failure to make fixture to be sancioned up to and including points deduction to SL team

Not just salary "cap" but playing budget to be a max % of income inc central funding

Massive bond to be deposited with RFL

Centralised marketing function at RFL with serious web presence - can have feeds to club sites but needs relevant up to date info with vids, coaching tips biographies etc etc. Make people want to visit it and buy into the whole concept of the game (wouldn't actually cost much in the grand scheme of things and no UK based sports have got this bit right so far)

Deals ot get people out the house and down the clubs like Reciprical deals on season tickets so season ticket holders either get discounted away tickets OR free entry at a local(ish) championship/feeder club on days there team is away

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, tuutaisrambo said:

Ask the WRU

I guess technically you can't but that is my point.........Rugby league has no ruling body with the power to tell clubs they are out if they don't merge.......the clubs are in charge.

Looking at the likes of widnes wakefield and salford........our elite level isn't very elite.

If a new Elite league was made up of say...leeds wigan warrington st helens and hull and then 7 brand new franchises all well funded and backed to a similar standard as those i don't think anyone would argue with a closed off Super league.

The clubs can ' merge ' , but the fans [ who are the whole point of the clubs existence ] dont

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Only if it's ran badly, there should never have been 14 clubs, Wakefield should have been relegated when they didnt meet criteria even if that left 13 clubs.

What criteria ?