25 May: SL MW: Wigan Warriors v Warrington Wolves KO 7pm (TV)

[bobbruce]

25 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

IL said that before the Barcelona game, and even then was somewhat equivocal about it. I would be surprised if Lam lasts to the end of June. 

Lam is simply out of his depth, which is not that surprising and not really the fault of him or the club. We thought we needed an interim coach, and he was prepared to take that on. 

We still have the best young players in the game and the nucleus of a championship winning team. Once we get a good new man in, we will be fine in no time. 

You just need to get in the championship now and then you’ve cracked it. 

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, JohnM said:

Ban him for what? Being the Wigan coach? 

Ban him from what? Driving? 

Fine him? How much? 

What are your thoughts on Lam's comments John? I know you are always keen to criticise any criticism of refs.

[Exiled Wiganer]

I can appreciate the “burn him” reaction from the usual quarters, indeed it would be astonishing if this didn’t press their buttons, but there is so much mitigating context here. He has no idea what to do and is understandably frustrated. He saw us lose a cup game against the backdrop of a pretty much universally condemned decision. He has seen the game stopped for a neck injury and another player taken off, at a point where we were giving the illusion of being in the game. His comments, in tone and context, were a long way from “the ref was bent”. Rather, he was expressing frustration at a decision he found mystifying. The Sky team debated what had happened and what could have been the decision. It would not have been without precedent to award a penalty and sin bin that player (as I think happened to one of our team earlier this year). Which all adds up to a point worth making. 

Now, I am certain even the wigan twitter feed would not agree with his suggestion that we would have won if that had gone differently, as we were clearly second best. But as far as a drowning man clutching at straws goes, this was mildly put. 

[Padge]

Tauti incident is on report, it will get dealt with accordingly.

Lam showed his naivety as a coach.

The team showed a tiredness rarely seen in a set of Wigan players.

[Davo5]

46 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

IL said that before the Barcelona game, and even then was somewhat equivocal about it. I would be surprised if Lam lasts to the end of June. 

Lam is simply out of his depth, which is not that surprising and not really the fault of him or the club. We thought we needed an interim coach, and he was prepared to take that on. 

We still have the best young players in the game and the nucleus of a championship winning team. Once we get a good new man in, we will be fine in no time. 

Sorry but Wigan are miles away from being Premiership contenders never mind winners,the spine of the team is shot,Hardaker still to recapture his pre ban form,Williams off to the NRL,Leuluai (who was signed to join the coaching staff and help out at hooker 3 yrs ago) and SOL fading forces and on there last legs,Powell,the worst hooker in the comp,only 1 centre in the club and then you add imported rubbish like Tautai,Isa,Navarette.

[Cheshire Setter]

30 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

He saw us lose a cup game against the backdrop of a pretty much universally condemned decision.

Oh come on EW, that's been done to death...   the rules are clear and it was no different to what we see every week.   Lam didn't comment much on that one anyway did he?  Mainly just internet users who wanted it given for the great tackle.

32 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

The Sky team debated what had happened and what could have been the decision. It would not have been without precedent to award a penalty and sin bin that player (as I think happened to one of our team earlier this year).

BUT, then we should analyse every 50/50 call so that one team doesn't get an advantage.   Is a call debatable only because it happens when a team desperate for a try and a win?   The Burgess score came from a rip from SOL.   Maybe if that try hadn't been given the Tautai incident wouldn't have been significant.

Above all else, Lam needs to focus on taking his team back to basics and not slipping in to excuses.   Love him or hate him, Wane wouldn't be using excuses like that.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Oh come on EW, that's been done to death...   the rules are clear and it was no different to what we see every week.   Lam didn't comment much on that one anyway did he?  Mainly just internet users who wanted it given for the great tackle.

BUT, then we should analyse every 50/50 call so that one team doesn't get an advantage.   Is a call debatable only because it happens when a team desperate for a try and a win?   The Burgess score came from a rip from SOL.   Maybe if that try hadn't been given the Tautai incident wouldn't have been significant.

Above all else, Lam needs to focus on taking his team back to basics and not slipping in to excuses.   Love him or hate him, Wane wouldn't be using excuses like that.

The cup game and this game had controversial decisions which were debated at the time and subsequently. The resits are the same and were both justified on the balance of play. Lam’s reaction was, to me, mild and exasperated rather than a haranguing of officials. He should be concentrating on leaving with his head held high, but if people are calling for a ban for these comments then they are off their rockers. 

[Wigan Riversider]

Spot on.

An interim appointment way out of his depth.

[getdownmonkeyman]

I don't think Lam has been dealt a great hand.

Tomkins gone, Williams going, O'Loughlin running on fumes. Hardaker is a good fullback, but he isn't the ball handler that Tomkins is.

[Wigan Riversider]

Leneghan is a massive hindrance

[Cheshire Setter]

19 hours ago, M j M said:

 

Price assaulting him is becoming a recurring theme. I like it.

Could be worse for Wolfie...   imagine if he was approached from behind by Joel Monaghan? 

[Exiled Wiganer]

49 minutes ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Leneghan is a massive hindrance

I don’t see that. He has a great track record in ensuring we can pay up to the cap, run a lot of other teams and runs a great community programme. His track record with coaches (at London, McDermott and at Wigan, Wane and McGuire) is good. Lam was a mistake, but, given the unique circumstances IL faced, an understandable one. 

Just watching Ellery now. We could do much worse if he has time on his hands. 

[Wigan Riversider]

IL hinders an increase in the salary cap for the whole of Super League judging by his comments historically.

Ellery as coach: now you are talking!

[Cheshire Setter]

16 minutes ago, Wigan Riversider said:

Ellery as coach: now you are talking!

I know he only did one season as coach of Saints, but didn’t he pretty much prove at the time that he wasn’t too good at managing players.

Don’t forget he wanted to let go of Cunningham in his prime and bring in Pachniuk.   A bit of a wild card Hanley.

[Damien]

44 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I know he only did one season as coach of Saints, but didn’t he pretty much prove at the time that he wasn’t too good at managing players.

Don’t forget he wanted to let go of Cunningham in his prime and bring in Pachniuk.   A bit of a wild card Hanley.

He did win the Grand Final though in that one season.

[Cheshire Setter]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

He did win the Grand Final though in that one season.

Fair enough.   Huge risk though!   What’s he been doing since the Saints job? 

[Padge]

1 hour ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Fair enough.   Huge risk though!   What’s he been doing since the Saints job? 

Coaching squash

[bobbruce]

12 hours ago, Padge said:

Coaching squash

He loves his squash you regularly see him at PSA events. In fact a few of that great Wigan team we’re into their squash with some still turning out at a high standard for Wigan squash. 

[Cheshire Setter]

Richard Agar is also very very good at squash, apparently.

[Rupert Prince]

23 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Sorry but Wigan are miles away from being Premiership contenders never mind winners,the spine of the team is shot,Hardaker still to recapture his pre ban form,Williams off to the NRL,Leuluai (who was signed to join the coaching staff and help out at hooker 3 yrs ago) and SOL fading forces and on there last legs,Powell,the worst hooker in the comp,only 1 centre in the club and then you add imported rubbish like Tautai,Isa,Navarette.

I agree to a fair extent. Last season we lost 2 forwards to Australia and also Tomkins who was the then current England nr7.  Williams is heading for NRL.  Greenwood is regularly injured (indeed we get regular concussion protocols). Farrel is out, and every other week one of our wingers gets injured. 

A hoped for nr7 (a last minute replacement) barely has had any game time mostly for injury.  And as you say the remainder are useful or workmanlike.

The team is upside down.  If Williams is leaving then the core of the team is missing. 6,7,9,13. This assumes our second rows gain or remain in form. With a half decent 7 (Sammut has not even got going yet) then our props ought to at least do a passable job.

No excuse for poor tackling and dropped ball. Players minds wondering all over the place.  (Frankly many other teams are the same.  Exciting scorelines ...?... rubbish quality)

My criticism is that Sammut did not get a start early enough in the season... But how fit is he?

[EagleEyePie]

Wigan competed well and even matched Wire in several areas. For once our forwards made some good metres with Smithies, Bullock and Tautai making around 100m. It's rare for a Wigan pack to have one player making 100m never mind 3. What we were lacking though was quality. Wire didn't look at their best and seemed like they could go up a gear if they needed to. With a cup game next week they were simply as good as was necessary.

From Wigan's point of view probably the biggest issue was Shorrocks at hooker. His defence was pretty awful and Wire managed to exploit it and they caused problems around the ruck. Bullock was also caught out as he's a bit naive in defence. When Flower was on in the first 20-25 minutes our defence was quality. When he didn't return for the rest of the game though the defence slipped, the ruck was lost and the rest is history.

Essentially Wigan's problem is a lack of quality compared to others. Only O'Loughlin seems capable of attracting defenders down the middle and creating space. None of our props look to offload the ball so there's no defender worrying about a second phase. As a result the halves get no real time on the ball, or are faced with a solid defensive line and no opportunity to draw players in and create an overlap.

For all Lam's talk of getting Wigan to play a more exciting brand of rugby, pretty much every club that plays attractive rugby does so off the back of dominant forwards. Under Wane Wigan used the props primarily for defensive purposes and they made fewer carries than props from any other club in the league and most of the play came through the back row. Lam presumably wants to play a more traditional style of rugby but seems to have discovered that our props struggle to do effective work in attack and can't switch back to Wane's methods because the back row is currently so much weaker.

Still, the result isn't a disaster. There's enough there to work on and hopefully develop, but I think Wigan are really lacking quality in the pack and that will presumably be a hindrance all season.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Wigan under Wane were, IMO, greater than the sum of its parts. They’ve not been the best team in Super League for a number of years, they’ve probably been the most effective in a number of those years but by no means the best in terms of quality, though they’ve done what a few teams haven’t and won key games when they matter. 

I think Wane’s departure (a massive part of this, for me), coupled with the loss of two or three key players and some questionable recruitment, has probably led to the season they’re having now. 

[Cheshire Setter]

Currie’s tackle on report doesn’t appear to have been taken any further.   Just out of interest (maybe it’s a mistake) but Matt Parcell appears to have contacted Thaler twice in the Leeds game?

[Leeds Wire]

11 hours ago, bobbruce said:

He loves his squash you regularly see him at PSA events. In fact a few of that great Wigan team we’re into their squash with some still turning out at a high standard for Wigan squash. 

I played against Ellery once, he was an absolutely brilliant player and a humble, friendly man. 

[Oxford]

18 minutes ago, Leeds Wire said:

I played against Ellery once, he was an absolutely brilliant player and a humble, friendly man. 

More importantly he talks the game up!

By the way why is this thread still going?