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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Or that the reserves they are running are of a very low quality with little.investment and serving little purpose outside of taking more players out of a community game that can barely sustain it

 

That low in quality we have beaten Hull and Wakefield reserves though. 

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Just now, Private Baldrick said:

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Clearly I do, because you would need to have had a pretty large bang on the head (something I dont discount) if you want to argue i dont like those clubs based on my posts.

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3 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

That low in quality we have beaten Hull and Wakefield reserves though. 

Sssh don't let facts get in the way.

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2 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

That low in quality we have beaten Hull and Wakefield reserves though. 

Whoop, New South Wales next then?

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Chris Lister, a director of Halifax RLFC, has confirmed that they have applied. Fax have been running a Reserve Grade for years and have matched and beaten the reserves of Wigan, St.Helens, Hull/Hull KR, Wakefield, Warrington over the years. They lost 30-20 tonight away at Wakefield. Much like Fev etc the Reserve Grade team is financed by the Supporters Trust, with directors topping up any shortfall. The Supporters trust usually raise 30K

First Graders like Chester Butler (Welsh International), Ed Barber, Elliott Morris, Sion Jones (Welsh Student International) The Davies Brothers (Welsh student Internationals) Londoner James Woodburn-Hall (England Student International), Conor McGrath are in the Fax First team Squad. Theres Jamaican, German and Welsh Student internationals that played tonight for Fax. The benefits for the International game at various levels is also plain to see. The Welsh boys had never played League until studying at Leeds.

Most teams run with a squad of 25. So we have a few players kicking their heels or have only DR to show they are match fit after a serious injury. With the Academy being dropped from 19 to 18 that provides a few players. The rest is amateurs, students, Union players. Jimmy Keinhorst came to Leeds via the Student game.

Edited by Lounge Room Lizard
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5 minutes ago, Private Baldrick said:

That low in quality we have beaten Hull and Wakefield reserves though. 

But not Leeds , because Leeds are best , they have facilities and things , and stuff 

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Just now, Private Baldrick said:

You need to read what you originally put!

YOU made a claim that I didn't like the clubs, leading me to reply that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Nope, try again. you made the claim that i didny like the lower leagues. Clearly a statement that would be idiotic if it included those clubs.

But by Championship and L1 you didnt mean those clubs you meant clubs like leigh and fev. That's your victim mentality showing through

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Just now, Private Baldrick said:

You really do need to follow the answers given to points you raise if you are to make any sense in your arguments.

I used sarcasm to highlight your assumption that I thought Hull and Wakefields reserves were of any sort of decent quality(your victim mentality again) was misplaced. 

My apologies that it was too subtle for you. I thought I had laid it on pretty heavily

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5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

But not Leeds , because Leeds are best , they have facilities and things , and stuff 

Stuff like trophies and fans. 

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5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I used sarcasm to highlight your assumption that I thought Hull and Wakefields reserves were of any sort of decent quality(your victim mentality again) was misplaced. 

My apologies that it was too subtle for you. I thought I had laid it on pretty heavily

The trouble is distinguishing when you are being sarcastic or being your normal self. I will learn one day.

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I'm quite happy that they have made this decision and from the detail it looks like the have put quite a bit of thought into it. 

However, the most important thing is that they stick to a plan, as continual change must play havoc with developing players, especially late teens/early twenties as age group changes come and go.  I'm already resigned to the annual changes in the structure of the professional game but for player development we need a well thought out plan that meets the needs of the game as a whole and will be around for a long time.

 

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1 minute ago, Private Baldrick said:

The trouble is distinguishing when you are being sarcastic or being your normal self. I will learn one day.

Well.at least now its clear

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7 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Chris Lister, a director of Halifax RLFC, has confirmed that they have applied. Fax have been running a Reserve Grade for years and have matched and beaten the reserves of Wigan, St.Helens, Hull/Hull KR, Wakefield, Warrington over the years. They lost 30-20 tonight away at Wakefield. Much like Fev etc the Reserve Grade team is financed by the Supporters Trust, with directors topping up any shortfall. The Supporters trust usually raise 30K

First Graders like Chester Butler (Welsh International), Ed Barber, Elliott Morris, Sion Jones (Welsh Student International) The Davies Brothers (Welsh student Internationals) James Woodburn-Hall (England Student International), Conor McGrath are in the Fax First team Squad. Theres Jamaican, German and Welsh Student internationals that played tonight for Fax. The benefits for the International game at various levels is also plain to see. The Welsh boys had never played League until studying at Leeds.

The  development of players like that, and the proper pathways to facilitate that, are what I like to see. When done well like that it is one of the major benefits that the lower leagues and its clubs bring and justifies their funding. Its also a reason not to contract and to have as many clubs as possible covering as many areas as possible. 

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20 minutes ago, Damien said:

It actually is. If Fev and Keighley can run reserves this season after all the issues that you describe then anyone can. There is certainly no excuse for Super League clubs that receive £1.8 million a year in funding.

Of course they can run a reserve team Pilk’s or St Pats can run reserve teams but would they be any use to Saints or Wigan. For SL reserve teams to be of any use the championship would have to revert to part time otherwise clubs are just wasting money. 

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5 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Of course they can run a reserve team Pilk’s or St Pats can run reserve teams but would they be any use to Saints or Wigan. For SL reserve teams to be of any use the championship would have to revert to part time otherwise clubs are just wasting money. 

Sorry that is a completely different argument to that what I had replied to which was that clubs could not afford to. Clubs that receive £1.8 million in funding, of course they can afford it. These are the same clubs that still said they couldn't afford it when their funding was increased by £500,000 in the latest TV deal. Its a very lazy, convenient excuse from clubs.

I completely disagree with your second sentence too. There certainly isn't anywhere near as much extra expense as people, who are against reserves, are trying to make out. Most clubs already have many, if not all, the coaches and a good portion of the necessary players anyway. Allowing clubs to retain their players in house, receiving top quality training, being taught good habits etc and playing to their systems and coaching is priceless. As is squad players being able to return from injury in a reserve competition or new signings being able to be introduced in a lower key environment. That is before you even consider the development needs of young players that can develop in a higher level than the u19s against more mature and more physical players.

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35 minutes ago, newbe said:

Might make Championship n League 1 a more honest contest. 

I don't think this and DR/loans need to be put in the same basket tbh.

Plus seeing as though the academies are being reduced to u18s, the current u19s format may just be extended by some clubs. Thus having little actual impact other than renaming.

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3 minutes ago, Damien said:

Sorry that is a completely different argument to that what I had replied to which was that clubs could not afford to. Clubs that receive £1.8 million in funding, of course they can afford it. These are the same clubs that still said they couldn't afford it when their funding was increased by £500,000 in the latest TV deal. Its a very lazy, convenient excuse from clubs.

I completely disagree with your second sentence too. There certainly isn't anywhere near as much extra expense as people, who are against reserves, are trying to make out. Most clubs already have many, if not all, the coaches and a good portion of the necessary players anyway. Allowing clubs to retain their players in house, receiving top quality training, being taught good habits etc and playing to their systems and coaching is priceless. As is squad players being able to return from injury in a reserve competition or new signings being able to be introduced in a lower key environment. That is before you even consider the development needs of young players that can develop in a higher level than the u19s against more mature and more physical players.

For SL reserves to be of any use the next best players in the country need to be in it. When this was first brought up people were saying you could run a reserve team for £300k. So if Toronto Leigh Fev Widnes Halifax Toulouse and probably a few more are spending over £1m on salary’s. What use is a reserve team for a SL club who once you’ve took costs out will be spending about £200k on salaries. This will purely be for show and have virtually no practical use whatsoever. What sort or seasoned professionals do you think squads would be retaining on that sort of money. 

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21 minutes ago, Damien said:

Sorry that is a completely different argument to that what I had replied to which was that clubs could not afford to. Clubs that receive £1.8 million in funding, of course they can afford it. These are the same clubs that still said they couldn't afford it when their funding was increased by £500,000 in the latest TV deal. Its a very lazy, convenient excuse from clubs.

I completely disagree with your second sentence too. There certainly isn't anywhere near as much extra expense as people, who are against reserves, are trying to make out. Most clubs already have many, if not all, the coaches and a good portion of the necessary players anyway. Allowing clubs to retain their players in house, receiving top quality training, being taught good habits etc and playing to their systems and coaching is priceless. As is squad players being able to return from injury in a reserve competition or new signings being able to be introduced in a lower key environment. That is before you even consider the development needs of young players that can develop in a higher level than the u19s against more mature and more physical players.

Amateur sides run 2nd teams on a.cost of basically nothing.

The question has never been about whether the game could afford to run a reserves but whether it could afford to to (and had the strength in depth, and the effect that would have on other areas of the game) to run one of sufficient quality. 

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27 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

For SL reserves to be of any use the next best players in the country need to be in it. When this was first brought up people were saying you could run a reserve team for £300k. So if Toronto Leigh Fev Widnes Halifax Toulouse and probably a few more are spending over £1m on salary’s. What use is a reserve team for a SL club who once you’ve took costs out will be spending about £200k on salaries. This will purely be for show and have virtually no practical use whatsoever. What sort or seasoned professionals do you think squads would be retaining on that sort of money. 

Any figures I have seen for the cost of reserves have been no where near those amounts and any club that I have seen quote amounts have always been in double figures and sub £100k. For example Wakefield said it cost them £30,000 for a reserve team this year. Wigan said a reserve team would only cost them an extra £60,000.

Edited by Damien

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I'm sure I read that it was costing something like £50k for Halifax to run a reserves team, so not really a huge amount at that level to be sustainable. Obviously that isn't SL quality players but I don't see it being a massive additional cost for SL clubs either.

Just looking at our U19s (Saints), we've got what looks like eight in their final year so they'd be into the reserves. Plus you'd likely also have the better of the younger ones (e.g. Welsby and Simm) and those on the fringes of the first team or on dual reg who don't make the 17/19 (e.g. Amor, Richardson, Batchelor, Douglas, Costello). You're maybe looking at needing an extra seven or eight players altogether. I guess the question is where do they come from? Local amateurs (that's a big step up)? Championship teams?

I think that's a problem worth solving though. The likes of Welsby et al are likely to get much more out of playing teams of that quality than staying in the U19s or out on dual reg in L1 or the Championship.

Edited by Moove
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In terms of developing players it's only going to work if the reserve league is of a higher standard than the Championship. If it's a lower standard then it's a waste of time and the players moving from SL academy to first team would be better off playing on loan in the Championship.

It'll be interesting to see how many clubs continue to send players out on loan/DR next season.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

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