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Smudger06

Brian McDermott's Big City Team League

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When I watch a grame of any sort if I spend my time looking at the crowd n not the game its cos the game is bobbins. If its a good game who cares whos playing?

I saw 3 games on tv on Sunday, oz grand final, league 1 play-off, newc utd v Man utd.... I enjoyed the 2nd one far more than the other two

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10 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

All of this "they're not interested" rhetoric  talks as if the people of Liverpool (or any city you care to think of) are some homogeneous mass of people who all think, like and dislike the same. They aren't.

Some will not be interested, some will be so averse to rugby that no type of event will appeal to them. But some won't think that way - some could be tempted by something new and those are the people you find and appeal to. 

Marketing isn't just about shouting about something (that's advertising) - it's about adapting what you have to the market you want to reach. I just can't believe that a club couldn't do that to appeal to some of the hundreds of thousands of people who live in the nearest big city. 

Actually you’d be surprised how homogeneous they are, much more so than anywhere else I’ve been. It’s the most parochial city in England by far. I have admitted you might find a few new people to be interested but they would be so few it wouldn’t be worth the massive outlay to do it. 

If anyone who posts on here and is from that area or the wider North West disagrees then maybe I’m wrong, but I doubt it  

 

Edited by Eddie
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19 minutes ago, Damien said:

I think you will find that Soccer is easily the number 1 sport in Poland.

Absolutely, that's what I thought, but apparently Speedway gets bigger crowds and aren't Poland past world champs ?

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2 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Absolutely, that's what I thought, but apparently Speedway gets bigger crowds and aren't Poland past world champs ?

Well you originally thought right. I don't know if Speedway are world champs or not but there is no way it's bigger than football.

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29 minutes ago, Damien said:

There are a few European countries where soccer isn't number 1, Poland ( speedway), Finland ( athletics), Slovakia ( ice hockey), RL has a chance there but nowhere else in Europe.

Is athletics really the #1 sport in Finland? I’m not saying it isn’t, am just really surprised. I’d have thought ice hockey and cross country skiing. I know football isn’t very big there at all though. 

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2 hours ago, DiddyDave said:

For Rugby League to survive,even prosper,we all know you have to have youngsters coming up through schools,amateur clubs,etc. The system in Australia,where all NRL clubs have tentacles reaching down to the street level ensures kids move up through the age groups,playing rep football and getting into State sides until they finally sign professional forms for one of the 16 NRL clubs. England,New Zealand and France would have similar structures,but what does Toronto or even Canada have? Next to nowt,so I`m sorry,to me it`s all a load of hype,no substance and in the end,doomed to fail..

got to give them time on that one... i agree that is what is needed but it isnt going to happen in 3 years.

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12 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Oslo, Stockholm, Vienna and Copenhagen are all very wealthy cities without top class sport. The team sport they have is in rather small time parochial leagues without any international aspect. Basel could be thrown in the mix too!

Leeds is pretty competitive in sports terms, with Leeds United and Rhinos. But, a good call. Also, Essen (I have doubts about the Novosibirisk economy).

I'd guess that if you picked a major city in Germany that wasnt Munich, Dortmund or Berlin you would probably get a very good strong NFL franchise... The Germans are big into their NFL (on the whole) and recon they could get a good franchise going. city wise they have a few nice sized cities that dont have really big big football clubs.. football will dominate but they would have a good crack at a big NFL team. Used to go to Cologne every year for business and always used to be around the Super Bowl.. sunday evening (late) and most bars showed it and loads of people wandering around in shirts of different teams.. was impressive. 

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12 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Oslo, Stockholm, Vienna and Copenhagen are all very wealthy cities without top class sport. The team sport they have is in rather small time parochial leagues without any international aspect. Basel could be thrown in the mix too!

Leeds is pretty competitive in sports terms, with Leeds United and Rhinos. But, a good call. Also, Essen (I have doubts about the Novosibirisk economy).

To be honest.. i know this isnt an NFL topic but... I can see the NFL long term plan being having a European division of some sort.. Get a London franchise, maybe then look at Germany and 2 other places.. basically what NFL Europe was but as full scale NFL rather than an off season "reserve league"... your looking way down the line (20 years) and not sure how it would fit into the current 8 divisions in 2 conferences but I can see it being what they want.. but you start with a few games in London.. building from 1 to 4 see how the crowds build and sustain over the years. Then look at a Franchise coming over full time. Look then at the demographic of travelling fans, are there people flying in from europe for the matches.. maybe replace the "london games" they have now with a game in say Munich or Berlin and start building again.. slowly slowly.. 

We can do the same with the likes of Toronto, then another maybe down the line and it starts to fit into a different structure.

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22 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

No, but its pretty silly.

What has the fact that McDermott came from a small town (which isnt actually that small) got to do with what he went on to achieve?

What did he achieve at London where there was no money?  McDermott is a big cheque book coach. He had success at Leeds while the cash was flowing.  When the cash tap turned off he struggled.  I think he's vastly over rated.  His side struggled to overcome Fev for an hour,  until fatigue after a week consisting of basically a game followed by non stop travel caught up with them.


“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

Edited by Trojan

“Few thought him even a starter.There were many who thought themselves smarter. But he ended PM, CH and OM. An Earl and a Knight of the Garter.”

Clement Attlee.

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20 minutes ago, Trojan said:

erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

5th largest city in England by population

3rd largest "city district" in England by population (I assume thats like metropolitan district.. so mayor "city region" or something).. 

in short yes.. its a big city!

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45 minutes ago, Trojan said:

erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

I think saying exclusively big cities/big teams is unreasonable. But it can't be too heavily weighted the other way. 

The premier League wouldn't be what it is if it was all Bournemouth/Burnley/Middlesbrough with no Man United, Liverpool, Arsenal.

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36 minutes ago, RP London said:

5th largest city in England by population

3rd largest "city district" in England by population (I assume thats like metropolitan district.. so mayor "city region" or something).. 

in short yes.. its a big city!

With a "big city" Rugby League team that has won the Challenge Cup and played in the Super League and World Club Championship...and who get maybe a 1000 people willing to pay to watch.

 

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3 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

All of this "they're not interested" rhetoric  talks as if the people of Liverpool (or any city you care to think of) are some homogeneous mass of people who all think, like and dislike the same. They aren't.

Some will not be interested, some will be so averse to rugby that no type of event will appeal to them. But some won't think that way - some could be tempted by something new and those are the people you find and appeal to. 

Marketing isn't just about shouting about something (that's advertising) - it's about adapting what you have to the market you want to reach. I just can't believe that a club couldn't do that to appeal to some of the hundreds of thousands of people who live in the nearest big city. 

It also overlooks the fact that (as Toronto has demonstrated very clearly) RL can do well just by capturing a small share of the sports market in a big city and if it then goes on to expand that share do better still on that basis.

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2 minutes ago, Marty Funkhouser said:

With a "big city" Rugby League team that has won the Challenge Cup and played in the Super League and World Club Championship...and who get maybe a 1000 people willing to pay to watch.

 

yes we could do better (as i argue on many many other threads with the Eagles) think you may be overestimating the 1000 as well at the moment!..

The question was about the "cities" in the Premier league football and if they were "big cities".. yes Sheffield is and a recognisable "name" outside of the UK... i agree if you are looking for an argument against what Brian McDermott was saying and looking at Bournemouth and Brighton etc saying they arent "big cities" but Sheffield is so isnt a great one to use in the argument

FWIW i dont think it is a very good argument anyway as the Premier League is based around some very big teams and the rest are ad ons.. if as a tv company you are buying the rights to italian football are you buying Milan, Inter, Juve, Roma, Napoli, Lazio, Torino, Fiorentina or for Brescia, Cagliari, Udinese, Lecce, SPAL, Sassuolo, Atalanta etc.. equally football is very different to any other sport in this case, we are all competing for the crumbs off football's table.

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1 hour ago, Trojan said:

erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

The second flight in the UK is one of the biggest leagues in Europe. It dwarfs the top flights in Norway or Austria and comparable to the French league. 


"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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Been lurking this thread a while now, one thing I can't get my head around is why is there so much hate for a man who holds such a positive out look on growth potential for the sport

Also Leeds is a big city (with some international name recognition) for all those complaining about his previous post there.

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2 hours ago, Trojan said:

erm

Burnley

Bournemouth

Wolverhampton

Sheffield

Southampton

Norwich

Watford

Do these count as big cities?  They are all in the Premiership, the richest comp in football.  As were Wigan, Stoke, Hull, Huddersfield and Middlesborough until relatively recently

And yet the all time premeir league table is teams from Manchester, London, london, liverpool, london. Liverpool. Manchester, newcastle, Birmingham, london, Manchester, Southampton, leeds, middlesborough, Leicester  Sunderland, london, manchester, birmingham, stoke london, sheffield,.london, Norwich

Anyone pretending the premeir league isnt based around big clubs in big conurbations just isnt being truthful

Also some of those cities you mention are like 20-30times bigger than the likes of fev and more importantly so are the clubs. 

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25 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And yet the all time premeir league table is teams from Manchester, London, london, liverpool, london. Liverpool. Manchester, newcastle, Birmingham, london, Manchester, Southampton, leeds, middlesborough, Leicester  Sunderland, london, manchester, birmingham, stoke london, sheffield,.london, Norwich

Anyone pretending the premeir league isnt based around big clubs in big conurbations just isnt being truthful

Also some of those cities you mention are like 20-30times bigger than the likes of fev and more importantly so are the clubs. 

The Premier League isn't " based" around anything geographical in an artificial sense. It all depends on who gets promotion and who goes down. The big teams in big cities obviously are more successful as they generate most cash to spend on top players.

Man U have previously gone down and hopefully Ole will repeat the feat, with no one at EPL HQ being worried or trying to get rid of P +R.

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3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And yet the all time premeir league table is teams from Manchester, London, london, liverpool, london. Liverpool. Manchester, newcastle, Birmingham, london, Manchester, Southampton, leeds, middlesborough, Leicester  Sunderland, london, manchester, birmingham, stoke london, sheffield,.london, Norwich

Anyone pretending the premeir league isnt based around big clubs in big conurbations just isnt being truthful

Also some of those cities you mention are like 20-30times bigger than the likes of fev and more importantly so are the clubs. 

What is the equivalence between the Premier League and Rugby League? or the Premier League and any other sport/league?

Are you saying that the Premier League came about because of a conscious, planned decision to build a sport around "big clubs in big conurbations"?  

If you are defining things by "conurbations" then Featherstone is part of the West Yorkshire built up area, this places it above Leicester, Liverpool, Middlesbrorough, Newcastle, Southampton, Stoke, Sheffield and Norwich from your list.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_in_the_United_Kingdom

I assume if Featherstone Flyers football team could rise through the ranks and hit the Premier League you would then class them as a "big club in a big conurbation"? Why is it different for RL?

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8 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

The Premier League isn't " based" around anything geographical in an artificial sense. It all depends on who gets promotion and who goes down. The big teams in big cities obviously are more successful as they generate most cash to spend on top players.

Man U have previously gone down and hopefully Ole will repeat the feat, with no one at EPL HQ being worried or trying to get rid of P +R.

Indeed. 

The difference is between the Premier Leagues using P&R to select 20 places from 40 suitable candidates and Super League choosing the best 12 from about six suitable candidates. 

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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42 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And yet the all time premeir league table is teams from Manchester, London, london, liverpool, london. Liverpool. Manchester, newcastle, Birmingham, london, Manchester, Southampton, leeds, middlesborough, Leicester  Sunderland, london, manchester, birmingham, stoke london, sheffield,.london, Norwich

Anyone pretending the premeir league isnt based around big clubs in big conurbations just isnt being truthful

Also some of those cities you mention are like 20-30times bigger than the likes of fev and more importantly so are the clubs. 

The Premier League is based around teams who kick the ball between the goalposts. 

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I will never ever call Brian McDermott when his coaching record is there to see 4 GF wins 2CC wins 1 league leadership . 1 WCC noone can argue with that. What I think he is saying is ' we must have aspirations to become a Global game with large international recognized cities competing against each other ' that's fine ,but other sports much bigger than TGG have had that aspiration for year and not get there ,,, Yet . NFL even association Football only has champions league and the other one for part of the season . I think Macs vision is a long way down the road yet 


 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

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On 07/10/2019 at 08:26, Oliver Clothesoff said:

I’d be interested to know how McDermott, a man from a “small northern town”, would have got to a stage in life where he’s coaching a major city based Rugby League team without the “small northern town” he calls his birthplace. 

Times change and we need to change

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1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

The Premier League isn't " based" around anything geographical in an artificial sense. It all depends on who gets promotion and who goes down. The big teams in big cities obviously are more successful as they generate most cash to spend on top players.

Man U have previously gone down and hopefully Ole will repeat the feat, with no one at EPL HQ being worried or trying to get rid of P +R.

They would be seriously worried but of course they wouldn’t stop the relegation (unlike the Argentine FA when River Plate went down). 

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